SCDNR Deer Survey-# of Bucks

[PP&WS]

Who is saying we have a declining deer population? has anyone gone out and counted the number first hand or is it an estimate based off of peoples responses to surveys? I will show you peanut fields that have 100 deer in them and the peanut fields are 20 acres. So if that is a declining pop. i am all for it declining some. we have numerous properties we hunt that may be only 120 acres and we consistently kill 12-20 deer a year off of these tracts. And have been doing so for 15 years. If you cant kill a nice deer or a bunch of deer in south carolina you need to look at the way you hunt and maybe change something. Get off your ass, get off the corn pile and hunt some deer.

[fro]

Havent read through this whole thread and not going to.
I did fill out the survey and would like to see 3 bucks ($20 tags) with antler restriction of some degree. Would like the 1.5 yr old bucks to get some sort of a chance. I know assholes that have not shot a doe in years, but kill more than 10 trash bucks a year... That's just unsatisfactory and a hard pill to swallow for me! If a 4point really gets you going it's time to grab your sack and man up. Personally I think an ol nanny is way harder to kill than a dumb ass yearling buck! That's a real mans trophy! I love how the john q public gets a shot at the reg say-so when most, as represented in this thread, are arm chair deer biologist with zero formal training other that the monthly QDMA magazines they get, the outdoor channel, and gamecam pics on corn piles. I can tell you that factual our herd as a whole is way out of wack in the buck doe ratio department!

[Catdaddy]

Who is saying we have a declining deer population? has anyone gone out and counted the number first hand or is it an estimate based off of peoples responses to surveys? I will show you peanut fields that have 100 deer in them and the peanut fields are 20 acres. So if that is a declining pop. i am all for it declining some. we have numerous properties we hunt that may be only 120 acres and we consistently kill 12-20 deer a year off of these tracts. And have been doing so for 15 years. If you cant kill a nice deer or a bunch of deer in south carolina you need to look at the way you hunt and maybe change something. Get off your ass, get off the corn pile and hunt some deer.

There are definetly hots spots around the state. Reducing the doe population is the way to correct that. The buck harvest has little to do with overall numbers. And their surveys are accurate and is a proven method,used by the USFWS for over 50 years. If you are having that many deer in your peanut fields, increasing the doe harvest is the place to start.

Shooting too many bucks prior to the rut is a problem. It causes alot of stress on the remaining bucks. Most states seasons starts right before the rut and only lasts a few weeks. It's like duck management....reduce the days afield and you reduce the harvest.

SC is a litle different, we need to reduce the buck harvest while maintaining or slightly reducing the doe harvest. Some areas need more management than others and different strategies.

I voted for 3 bucks and no antler restrictions. Two bucks would be better, but the numbers crowd will scream bloody murder......like they did at every SCDNR meeting, and will do this time.....and already are on this thread.


I see this thing playing out as 5 bucks in the lower counties, 3 in the mid state and 2 in the upstate.

[WoodieSC]

Shooting too many bucks prior to the rut is a problem. It causes alot of stress on the remaining bucks.

This is what bothers me with the season opening up in August. I would think it should be does only, or add restrictions of some sort.

I see this thing playing out as 5 bucks in the lower counties, 3 in the mid state and 2 in the upstate.

Do you think those numbers are based on population and good harvest management biology... or politics only?

[PP&WS]

Catdaddy i respect you opinion on thiis but i still personally see no proof our deer herd is having any problems. we have killed roughly the same amount of does and bucks every year for fifteen years. the past 2 years we have kicked up the doe harvest alot but still killing the same amount of bucks every year and we consistently take nice bucks and in the past 2 years a few high 130 inch deer and and 3 over 142 inches. But we also take quite a few small bucks every year too. Now keep in mind this is not a "hotspot" this is over 7 different counties. So i am just saying for my personal perspective i see no difference in the deer herd in the last 15 years, if anything for us it is a little bit better. And alot of these places are not still hunting we put dogs on them. The key to all of it is keep the pressure down on the deer. Quit driving you 4-wheeler all over the place, get out the stand once in a while, get off the corn pile, and get the dang flashing lights and cameras out the woods and alot more people will be satisfied with what they can kill in south carolina

[TJR]

Move the season open back to Sept 15 - and have a series of either sex days up front.

[Gobbler_GUY]

I think we should all operate on an honor system as hunters... I believe thats part of what hunting is about, respecting the animals, the land, and enjoy the opportunity God has given us to be in the outdoors... If we would be respectful of all of these things, there would be no need for any restrictions. Should a young kid be able to shoot whatever walks out, yeah i guess, but at the same time that doesnt teach him much about discipline in my opinion. I believe if we limited ourselves personally to two bucks a year, and pay close attention to the doe population and kill enough of them to keep the overall herd in check. We would have some really nice bucks in our state and the average hunter is still gonna have plenty of meat for the freezer from their doe harvest every year. Killing things just to say you killed something is stupid... The DNR is not gonna be able to enforce these rules and you will still have some moron that shoots whatever they want... just my .02 cents I will shut up now...

[badfaulkner]

I think we should all operate on an honor system as hunters... I believe thats part of what hunting is about, respecting the animals, the land, and enjoy the opportunity God has given us to be in the outdoors... ...

I'm reminded of Jack Nicholson's remarks to his Hispanic housekeeper in As Good As It Gets: "Go sell crazy someplace else we're all stocked up here."

Honor systems don't work (for the guys who are the problem anyway).

[badfaulkner]

I..The guy that put me on my first couple deer kills 60 to 100 deer every season..

The season's only about 120 days long. HITF is this possible?

Even if he's in the woods four nights a week, he's killing a couple every hunt.

[PP&WS]

The season's only about 120 days long. HITF is this possible?

Even if he's in the woods four nights a week, he's killing a couple every hunt.

My cousin has killed 92 deer in one year so it is possible. No reason to kill THAT many but hey he did, something alot of people cant say. And i have seen my brother kill 18 in one day so it can be done

[PP&WS]

B ut when he killed the 18 we were on a dog drive and he had a horseshoe stuck up his butt that day and the owner wanted us to kill everything we saw

[Catdaddy]

This is what bothers me with the season opening up in August. I would think it should be does only, or add restrictions of some sort.


Do you think those numbers are based on population and good harvest management biology... or politics only?

Woodsie,

As long as the limit on bucks is managable, when you start killing them is irrelevant as long as you don't kill too many,too early. In Texas, the big properties file a management plan with the TWD. Once approved, they can kill what ever they want, when they want....anytime of the year. Some of them are the best managed properties in the country.

Why? Because the TWD sees their plan is good management.

On your question, it's based on what has a chance of passing(politics). Once the counties with a 5 buck limit see the results on moving the average age up a year or so, they will/should be willing to accept what needs to be done. In the low country, there's no way of moving the August 15th date back. That's not a bad thing as lond as someone doesn't overshoot the bucks prior to the rut. Tags and limits will help there.

Catdaddy i respect you opinion on thiis but i still personally see no proof our deer herd is having any problems. we have killed roughly the same amount of does and bucks every year for fifteen years. the past 2 years we have kicked up the doe harvest alot but still killing the same amount of bucks every year and we consistently take nice bucks and in the past 2 years a few high 130 inch deer and and 3 over 142 inches. But we also take quite a few small bucks every year too. Now keep in mind this is not a "hotspot" this is over 7 different counties. So i am just saying for my personal perspective i see no difference in the deer herd in the last 15 years, if anything for us it is a little bit better.

And that's because you are still somewhat managing your herd(not overshooting your does). I like having alot of does around as long as their is ample food. I dissagree with QDM because most interpet their plan as ...."does are the enemy...kill everyone you see". When the doe population gets low, the bucks wander further, giving the 25 per year man down the road a crack at them.
Trust me on this, with coyote predation being bigger than expected and most places,folks have been shooting too many does. There has defintly been a dent put in the population. I personally don't see it on my property, but I see it and hear it all over the state........."what happen to all the deer? " No sightings, no tracks,no trail cam pics,.....nothing"

Surveys don't count every deer, but they are very accurate on population trends........and we,as a state, have been trending downwards to the tune of 25% of the herd.

And that's because they over shot the herd while the coyotes we killing 60-80% of the recruitment. The coyote predation numbers caught everyone off guard, including the DNR.

Now, alot of hunters are just blaming it on the coyotes, not their poor trigger management practices.

[PP&WS]

agree with you on that too, but that shows you you can still take small deer when you want and still have a herd of healthy deer. So why would i wnt to make a sacrifice on the way we hunt b/c joe blow wants to kill a bigger deer. if he wants to kill a bigger deer he needs to do it himself and not hinder other peoples way of hunting. i know all this is just talk but i am just saying how i see it. my opinion and my opinion only.

[PP&WS]

it comes toa pointwhere peolple have to make their own decisions for the best and now worry what everyone else does. i just dont want more regulations where we hunt. If we happen to start seeing less deer, guess what we will shhot less deer but until then i dont want someone telling me how many and what size i can shoot

[3chunter]

Damn and I thought the 5 I killed in one day was alot!

[SuperSwamp Fox]

Alright first let me start by saying I have read all of the pages and have done my best not reply but I can’t take it anymore. I want to do a simple math analysis of the deer herd based on some of the ideas discussed so far. No Horn management will be included just bucks vs does. For this math analysis I will start with 10 deer 5 does and 5 bucks.

#1) kill all the does and few ”mature” bucks (QDMA)
Year 1 you kill 3 does and 1 buck. That leaves 2 does who have twins and all survive.
Year 2 you now have 4 does and 6 bucks. You kill 3 does and 1 buck. That leaves 1 doe to have twins and all survive.
Year 3 you now have 2 does and 7 bucks. You kill 2 does and 1 buck. That leaves you screwed with no deer after the current herd reaches the natural attrition with other deer moving into the area.

#2) Kill only bucks (redneck bubba around the corner)
Year 1 he kills 4 bucks. All the does have twins and all survive
Year 2 he now has 10 does and 5 bucks. He kills 4 bucks. All the does have twins and all survive.
Year 3 he now has 20 does and 11 bucks. He kills 7 bucks. All the does have twins and all survive.
Now Bubba is gonna hit his “carrying capacity” and top out but he will always have deer(lots of does)

#3 Common sense (we’ll call this Robbie’s plan)
Year 1 I kill 4 bucks and 1 doe. That leaves 4 does who have twins and all survive.
Year 2 I now have 8 does and 5 bucks. I kill 4 bucks and 2 doe. That leaves 6 does who have twins and all survive.
Year 3 I now have 12 does and 9 bucks. I kill 5 bucks and 3 does. That leaves 9 does who have twins and all survive.
Now I am pretty much replacing the herd every year. Kill the most deer and put the most meat on the table. I also have a really bright future with 18 fresh deer this year and 13 Bucks!

Now you can argue that “mature” bucks produce a more healthy herd but I would defiantly want to see sperm analysis to prove it. I read in a post on here that the state wide deer heard was declining as a whole. Well I hunt on a club that probably lives closes to the common sense plan and our herd is booming! And it will continue too until some dummy in Columbia decides we should only kill trophy deer. It comes right down to there are a few outside factors that affect the deer herd such as carrying capacity, hunting pressure, development and unnatural attrition due to predators, but the simple fact remains when you kill a doe after sept 15 you are killing more than just one deer. Outdoor TV and QDMA has killed regular old hunting. Now if it’s not a trophy or you didn’t kill it with the bow you are wrong. Careful before all of you experts kill all of your deer and have nothing to hunt in the years to come. The mindless slaughter of every doe you see will lead to a serious decline in the herd it’s mathematical. And who argues with MATH?

[3chunter]

If you kill all the does your pop will suffer greatly. If you don't believe it MY club 7 years ago was proof of it. We shot everything we could for 3 years or so and pretty soon we couldn't hardly see a deer. We then decided to only kill one doe per week and per person. Within a year we could tell the difference! this is a dog club by the way that covers 4600 acres.

[badfaulkner]

Outdoor TV and QDMA has killed regular old hunting. Now if it’s not a trophy or you didn’t kill it with the bow you are wrong. Careful before all of you experts kill all of your deer and have nothing to hunt in the years to come. The mindless slaughter of every doe you see will lead to a serious decline in the herd it’s mathematical. And who argues with MATH?

You have misrepresented both hunting TV and QDMA's recommendations imo with a lot of sweeping generalizations.

[3chunter]

Yea..the more restrictions we have(draw hunts, tags, antler restrictions, season shortenings,etc) the harder it is to get a youngin into the sport!
What I don't get is the way we are doing shit right now is WORKING.
1. we have plenty of deer
2. Big deer are being killed daily
3. we don't have much disease in our herd

So the way I see it is greed is what you show when you want changes to follow YOUR beliefs at this point. Unless your a biologist and have sound reasons....I AINT HEARING IT!

[SuperSwamp Fox]

You have misrepresented both hunting TV and QDMA's recommendations imo with a lot of sweeping generalizations.

Maybe and yes I made some very simple generalizations to help explain it to the "experts" but the idea of killing 2 or 3 times as many does as bucks and limiting the number of bucks killed is what i get out of QDMA.

So help me out. Please tell, where they follow QDMA rules and don't overshoot does ( reduce the total herd #)? I guess the real question is do you want more deer or less deer? Do you think they have all of these doe days on public land to increase or decrease the total # of deer? I am not talking about horns just deer. Healthy and trophy are not interchangeable!