Proposed spottail regulations

[drwilly]

how about the harbor and jetty fishing targeting the huge breeders. knowing full well you can't keep them, many will die from the hard deep fight, and the huge percentage eaten by bull sharks before they get to the boat. but you can get a sick rad pic holding a big un. if you are going to regulate something regulate that. especially the guides bc its easier and the out of towner wants a big one. the longer tenured guides I know feel this way and avoid those trips. for the client who wants that take them shark fishing.

[TXFowler]

15-23 is the dumbest and lowest slot for reds in the country and it seems SC is the only sate trying to figure out why they have a problem…go figure. They’re redfish BTW.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[buckbuster]

how about the harbor and jetty fishing targeting the huge breeders. knowing full well you can't keep them, many will die from the hard deep fight, and the huge percentage eaten by bull sharks before they get to the boat. but you can get a sick rad pic holding a big un. if you are going to regulate something regulate that. especially the guides bc its easier and the out of towner wants a big one. the longer tenured guides I know feel this way and avoid those trips. for the client who wants that take them shark fishing.

Should let you keep 1 over slot

[Relentlous]

More spot tails are killed in the summer months with people stressing out breeder fish, than the handful kept to consume.

THIS

[Calibogue]

I've chased tailing fish in the grass for about 30 years now.
Around 2000ish, there was a particular grass flat that held them by the hundreds and on a cool October morning, it wasn't uncommon to 500 tails all at once up on the flat.
As far as you could see, nothing but tails....it ain't like that anymore and it's not even close!

[loud1]

I haven’t noticed a decline in Georgetown.

[scdiver]

I haven’t noticed a decline in Georgetown.

The decline is in their net counts.

I question the validity of the net counts just like I question the offshore counts. They place the nets same place same time of tide cycles etc and compare data points.

Is it the best science, not really because of fish movements etc but it is a data point.

I think some areas of the state and areas in those areas get hit harder than others. Loud1 magic numbers stay up but that's a fishy crew...

Always said, if it has fins y'all can catch it.

[BOGSTER]

Prove there is a decline then I’ll listen.

[trash2]

15-23 is the dumbest and lowest slot for reds in the country and it seems SC is the only sate trying to figure out why they have a problem…go figure. They’re redfish BTW.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No they’ve spot tails. Take your gulf/yankee shit outta here. But honestly they’re a saltwater catfish that people target to feel better about themselves.

[roltide]

Problem in Charleston is the the guides; way too many, unregulated, pulling fish up from 60’ in summertime only to release the fish to their death(breaded fish) and doing multiple trips a day….DNR just being lazy with New regulations

[usrgce]

The decline is in their net counts.

I question the validity of the net counts just like I question the offshore counts. They place the nets same place same time of tide cycles etc and compare data points.

Is it the best science, not really because of fish movements etc but it is a data point.

I think some areas of the state and areas in those areas get hit harder than others. Loud1 magic numbers stay up but that's a fishy crew...

Always said, if it has fins y'all can catch it.

The net counts are much like NOAAS assessments. Coordinates are picked at “random” for the start of bottom longline sets. They never catch any fish. Cable could be moved at times less than a 1/4 mile and give them more otoliths than the want to sample in 6 months!
When fishing the “ where and when” is the most important part.

[BOGSTER]

Problem in Charleston is the the guides; way too many, unregulated, pulling fish up from 60’ in summertime only to release the fish to their death(breaded fish) and doing multiple trips a day….DNR just being lazy with New regulations

The problem is the guides.

But it’s not what you think. The guides are against keeping spottails because they make their money from them, and every fish kept is a fish they could make money from.

It genuinely chaps their ass to pull up to their favorite dock and see 2 guys in a jonboat keeping fish.

[Calibogue]

Meanwhile..... Screenshot_20260306_142921_Facebook.jpg

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

[FEETDOWN]

Meanwhile..... Screenshot_20260306_142921_Facebook.jpg

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

Good grief����*♂️

[duckcrazed]

The net counts are much like NOAAS assessments. Coordinates are picked at “random” for the start of bottom longline sets. They never catch any fish. Cable could be moved at times less than a 1/4 mile and give them more otoliths than the want to sample in 6 months!
When fishing the “ where and when” is the most important part.

A few corrections for you....For the trammel nets, they randomly sample stations that have been sampled for 28+ years, all quality redfish habitat focused around quality shoreline/oyster habitat. So while random, the same sites are repeatedly sampled over time...it is random to prevent bias, as everyone running those boats would prefer to catch fish.

For the longline survey, similarly stations are fixed and repeatedly sampled over time, but selection of stations is random. That said, all stations are in areas where anglers frequently target, and catch adult fish. Both surveys catch plenty of fish...and no cable is used anywhere.

[duckcrazed]

Prove there is a decline then I’ll listen.

Bog, I'm curious what constitutes proof for you?

Data show a 25+ year decline in both trammel net and electrofishing surveys, there's peaks in year classes strength in individual years, but the overall trend is down and falling. Age and length structure of adult fish is declining, ie, the old productive spawners are not being replaced. Long-term guides and anglers are all seeing/reporting declines. A lot of anglers are reporting flats that used to hold several schools now have none.

What else would you need to see to constitute proof, I'm genuinely curious?

For what it's worth, this isn't the same problem we have with red snapper. The problem with red snapper population is the age structure is screwed...all the offshore surveys show a big increases in red snapper, no one is arguing that, but 50 years ago, there were 40+ year old red snapper, and now there's none over 10 years old. This age structure mismatch is why the assessment continues to show the population is overfished...completely different issue than we are having with red drum (although we are also seeing length and age decreases).

[BOGSTER]

B - I’m glad you chimed in on this.

Where is the study area showing the decline?
Elaborate on the trammel net and electro surveys.
When and where were they done?

I primarily fish from the Edisto Marina down to Ashe Island.
70% of my fishing is flood tide, but I do a decent amount of live bait/cut bait fishing from April to October.
Finding slot fish is our biggest issue. 90% of tailing fish in this area are well over slot.
When I try to catch pinfish for offshore bait in the creeks - I have to weed thru a ton of 10-14 inch spottails.
When I sheep fish - sometimes I have to move to get away from those juvi fish.

I have several college buddies that their local waters are from the delta up to around Winyah bay - I’ve never once heard any of them say “man where are the spottails?”

Usually it’s “come up here and fish”

So I wonder is this locally around Charleston?

[2thDoc]

maybe you just suck at fishing and adapting to change.

snicker

[duckcrazed]

B - I’m glad you chimed in on this.

Where is the study area showing the decline?
Elaborate on the trammel net and electro surveys.
When and where were they done?

I primarily fish from the Edisto Marina down to Ashe Island.
70% of my fishing is flood tide, but I do a decent amount of live bait/cut bait fishing from April to October.
Finding slot fish is our biggest issue. 90% of tailing fish in this area are well over slot.
When I try to catch pinfish for offshore bait in the creeks - I have to weed thru a ton of 10-14 inch spottails.
When I sheep fish - sometimes I have to move to get away from those juvi fish.

I have several college buddies that their local waters are from the delta up to around Winyah bay - I’ve never once heard any of them say “man where are the spottails?”

Usually it’s “come up here and fish”

So I wonder is this locally around Charleston?

Bog, The trammel net operates from Murrell's Inlet down to the Broad River although Murrell's and North Inlet were just added recently (for flounder and reds). So long term, Winyah, Bulls Bay, Wando, Charleston Harbor, Ashley River, Edisto/St Helena, and Broad River are all been sampled. For Electrofishing they cover from Winyah to the Combahee. While there's some variation, all are showing declines...The adult longline survey samples Winyah, Charleston, St Helena, and Port Royal, similar, all are showing declines but primarily in the length/age structure....the adults survey catches 6 to 40 year olds (lots of year classes) so it's going to be slower to reflect changes in abundance, and if it does the population will be in real trouble at that point.

Re declines, it's scattered as to where they are most pronounced, but we hear from a ton of fisherman from Hilton Head/Port Royal area, as well as the N. Edisto, and scattered areas to the north, some guides, some just anglers that are concerned. Not necessarily all population center driven as there are some remote schools that very people knew about that are gone. But definitely seeing across the state declines. None of it is to the point where good fishermen aren't going to be able to catch fish, but there are definitely way less fish than there used to be out there. As to why, there are a bunch of potential factors there, but as fishery managers of a population that doesn't have commercial fishing there's only one group that can be managed. One thing to think about it is the pressure these fish get now. Post-release mortality is likely low (from 8% to maybe as low as 4%) but the amount of fish that are now caught and released is way higher than it used to be. To the point where that 4-8% released that don't survive is now more than the harvest was in the 80's pre-regulation when blackened redfish was the rage...

[2thDoc]

None of it is to the point where good fishermen aren't going to be able to catch fish

see above, Bogster