Why do hunt tests?

[mudminnow]

So i am debating on getting into these dog games with my dogs, but have a few hesitations.
Hesitation #1: I don't know what outfit to put on my Golden
Hesitation #2: I feel like to progress in the games could take some of the hunt out of the dog. For every story i have heard of a dog transitioning well from hunt tests to actual hunting, I have heard one of a great hunt test dog that wasn't worth squat hunting. I think they are the best way to mark traits to improve the breed in america and see that importance.

Anyway, if you do them, why? If you don't, why not?

[Truckman]

Its a good way to keep the dog in shape during the off season, help train the dog to more stuff to help with retrieving while hunting. I have seen a "Test dog" pick up ducks, and geese with no issue and with plenty of drive. We are having a hunt test in Mullins on Feb 18-19 if you would like to see what HRC is all about.

[Moatsy]

a great alternative is to find 4-5 people to train with and get access to a little land with some varied cover including water. You can get some great training in with only a couple hours, without the drama.

[cusportsman]

a great alternative is to find 4-5 people to train with and get access to a little land with some varied cover including water. You can get some great training in with only a couple hours, without the drama.

x2

Save you A LOT of money too.

[buckfarmer]

So i am debating on getting into these dog games with my dogs, but have a few hesitations.
Hesitation #1: I don't know what outfit to put on my Golden
Hesitation #2: I feel like to progress in the games could take some of the hunt out of the dog. For every story i have heard of a dog transitioning well from hunt tests to actual hunting, I have heard one of a great hunt test dog that wasn't worth squat hunting. I think they are the best way to mark traits to improve the breed in america and see that importance.

Anyway, if you do them, why? If you don't, why not?

1) Outfit? You mean you don't know who you should get to train your dog?

2) Progressing in the games won't take any of the hunt out of your dog. That is, unless by "hunt" you mean "uncontrolled."

As far as the stories you've heard...I can't believe that. Maybe some lower level HT dogs don't transition to hunting well, but lower level HT's don't require much more skill than the average back yard dog has. You would have a hard time finding a Master Hunter or HRCH level dog that wouldn't blow most dogs out of the water in a hunting situation. There's just no comparison. Anyone who says differently has never had a dog of that caliber.

Even if you don't run trials or hunt tests, try your best to get your dog up to the skill level of a Master Hunter or an HRCH. Hunting with a dog that can run blinds and pick up 3+ marks from memory is a different world, and once you have a dog like that, you'll wonder why you didn't try to get a dog like that a long time ago.

[HRC Dogs]

The short answer....

In a time long ago, Aristocracy developed the breeds and controlled the breeding. Aristocracy controlled it without emotion... if the pups were not able to hunt…..they were killed... which meant those specific lines were no longer in the gene pool. They owned the dogs and the common man were only used to train and handle the dog.

Today the approach is performance & health based for selection of a breeding. It is the only way to truly improve the breeds on a large scale through hunt test/field trial programs. Whether you choose to participate or not... you probably have benefited from such programs in the purchase of a pup for hunting purposes.

On a more personal side, hunt test/field trial programs provide the opportunity to receive recognition for the natural & trained abilities of the dog you own. There are instances the programs are used to demonstrate to the wife why you had to spend 12 hours per week training the dog for the past 2 years to obtain a finished title.

[HRC Dogs]

a great alternative is to find 4-5 people to train with and get access to a little land with some varied cover including water. You can get some great training in with only a couple hours, without the drama.

This is SOP for most successful hunt test/field trial dogs.

[WREDrake]

X2 for buckfarmer.

My dog was two years old and already hunting when I first learned of hunt test. At the time he was a jam up dove hunter and a descent duck hunter. I started training for hunt test and it gave me goals and motivation to give my dog the attention he deserves. Now having a dog that has his HRCH and is working on a Master title I can tell you he hasn't lost one bit of drive or hunting ability. He loves training and gets as excited about it as he does a hunt. He is a great deal more under control on hunts and is able to be pulled off of a dead bird in the decoys and sent for a swimmer thats getting away. Once you do that in a real hunting situation or run a good blind from a bird knocked down that your dog didn't see you will understand why training to hunt test level pays off. I have been highly pleased with his hunt test outcomes but the most exciting day of my life is when he picked up a triple from memory and ran a blind for the fourth bird down in a hunting situation. There are a bunch of great guys on here that have training groups all over South Carolina. Get with one of them and start training. Charleston, Cherokee, Midlands, or Carolina Boykin you can't go wrong with. Hope this helps.

[coot nasty]

I was real hesitant about the hunt test but after getting a taste of it its great. It all depends on what level you want to get your dog to. I was worried about my dog not using her nose and waiting on me to give her a signal. But the dog will never stop using her nose. I advise you to go out and watch a finished level dog. It will blow your mind. The hand signals are great when you down a bunch of birds and you can direct the dog to the bird and get back to the blind in a hurry! Also get one good hunting season in before you start. That's just my opinion! Good luck!

[wcrites307]

There are other non tangible benefits to the hunt testing game. I enjoy being around other folks that appreciate good dogs and good dog work. Most all of my current hunting buddies were met at HRC or Boykin Spaniel hunt tests / trials. In fact we are now planning our third trip to ND together next fall.

All of my dogs compete (some would argue the level of competion my dogs offer) and all of them hunt with me. I do all my own training and have very little "equipment" aside from bumpers and the basics. I do not have asperations to gain the higher titles but that is only because I am too lazy to train to that level. I enjoy hunting the dogs and the test games keep me training during the off months and I just like the people....well most of them anyway..

[SouthBryanLabs]

Most of us who participate in hunt tests or field trials got into them because we wanted better hunting companions, period. I have had several dogs since that time and have had some that were better in hunting situations then others, but all of them and me have become better hunters because of the practice I have had in the off season ( which there really is none for the dog games ). In reality training with a group of your buddies in varying areas of cover is no different then participating in Hunt Tests but you get to have the added benefit of earning some recognition for the hard work. The comment regarding the drama is something that really depends on the personalities you surround yourself with. I have been very fortunate to have met many really great people while participating. However, with that said there are just as many f%@k&d up people in the dog world as there is anywhere else. You just have to decide how you want to interact with them as in any other aspect of life. Give me a call or shoot me a PM if you want to talk offline. - Brian

Brian A. Skibicki
Bskibicki@comcast.net
(912)727-3893 Home
(706)573-7668 Cell

[mudminnow]

The outfit comment was a joke...bows or bandanas in a hunt test for a golden.

One of my dogs is from AKC hunt test and field trial lines, I find him very energetic and a bit tougher to train.

My other pup is from british field trial champion Lines, overall he is steady and very easy to train.

The basic test for akc and HRC seems, well, basic. The SH and SHR appear better but what if I have trained my dog to pop every 40 yards on blinds, will that stop his chances of progressing? What if i want my dog to run the bank and avoid cover( taking his own line to a blind) when it can to make a more efficient retrieve, will that stop him from getting SH,MH, SHR, etc?

[mudminnow]

Basically, i don't want to train my dogs for a test, but to hunt the way i want them too and i am trying to see if those can coexist. I think they would be great fun, but i also think i could get frustrated with getting dinged because of the way i trained them

[buckfarmer]

The outfit comment was a joke...bows or bandanas in a hunt test for a golden.

One of my dogs is from AKC hunt test and field trial lines, I find him very energetic and a bit tougher to train.

My other pup is from british field trial champion Lines, overall he is steady and very easy to train.

The basic test for akc and HRC seems, well, basic. The SH and SHR appear better but what if I have trained my dog to pop every 40 yards on blinds, will that stop his chances of progressing? What if i want my dog to run the bank and avoid cover( taking his own line to a blind) when it can to make a more efficient retrieve, will that stop him from getting SH,MH, SHR, etc?

Why would you train your dog to pop every 40 yards? By "trained," do you mean he does it anyway, and you don't want to correct it?

In hunting situations I don't care what line my dog takes to a blind....heck, I normally just try to get her to within 40 yards down wind. If they "choose thier own line", at some point of deviation from the line to the bird, they could be considered not running a blind at all, but rather wandering around and eventually finding a duck. Also, if he can take a line, then you could realistically send him on the best line to be more efficient. It wouldn't be too efficient if he "chose his own line," ran 20 yards up wind of the bird, and proceeded to hunt for 10 mins because he over-ran the blind, would it?

I agree with you about letting the dog run the bank on the way back, but you typically aren't judged in a HT once the dogs picks the bird up. So, running the bank on the return shouldn't keep you from progressing.

trust me, once you get a dog that is truly a HRCH or even MH level dog, you'll never go back. A MH or HRCH in the duck blind is a game changer, and you'll wonder how you ever dealt without one.

Good luck!!

[mudminnow]

THe way i train my dogs leads them to pop every forty yards or so which is fine with me. And i would like the dog to run the bank there and back. anyway, if my goal is to have a dog that hunts like this...
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhvpTPGRaRY[/ame]
If you watch he pops a good bit and doesn't take a straight line to things, but i am impressed with this type of hunting dog

[SouthBryanLabs]

The basic test for akc and HRC seems, well, basic. The SH and SHR appear better but what if I have trained my dog to pop every 40 yards on blinds, will that stop his chances of progressing? What if i want my dog to run the bank and avoid cover( taking his own line to a blind) when it can to make a more efficient retrieve, will that stop him from getting SH,MH, SHR, etc?

The progression through the different levels of hunt tests are designed with exactly what your comments suggest, and that to become increasingly more challenging and as a result a reflection of the more advanced levels of training that YOU and your Dog have attained. The reason I have highlighted both the handler and the dog is because the training is important for both of you. It has been my experience that through the participation in these events I have become a better hunter by learning how to work as a team with my dog.

Regarding the popping every 40 yards, I don't understand why you train to encourage your dog to do that. With that said you must have reason why you do that, and I am not going to try and say it is right or wrong if that is what you want your dog to do. However it is Your dog, Your standards and who am I to say you are wrong if that is what you want. The rules for HRC tests say that "popping" at the seasoned level will not be penalized, so it will not prevent the dog from progressing to the HR level. For the Finished level HRC test it is a "mark down" and can, if persistent hesitancy to take the cast and challenge the line to the blind as directed by the handler can fail the dog and prevent it from receiving an HRCH title in my opinion. With that said it might not be an issue if the dog "pops" rarely or once on the way to a blind and is challenging the most direct route to the bird.

The reasoning behind taking the most direct line to the blind is to insure that the potentially wounded bird is where you last were confident it landed, and the tests are designed to hopefully replicate and test the skills to be the most efficient in a hunting situation. We look for a dog that promptly responds to the commands of the handler / hunter and challenges the line to the blind and typically that means have the perseverance to drive through that cover you are suggesting you prefer to avoid. If a dog doesn't have the ability or determination to drive through, over and around cover all while taking the most direct route to the blind is a skill which is being judged. A dog is not permitted to take the line he determines or frankly what are we judging, it is a standard which the judge is there to test. Not having challenged the line, lack of perseverance to drive through cover, excessive popping on the way to the blind, or willingness to take prompt direction from the handler all are reasons for not meeting the standard and will prevent the dog from progressing.

Regarding, the return from the blind it is not going to be judged unless you give the judges something to judge. What I mean is if you as a handler start to blow whistles or give the dog commands then I am going to continue to judge the dog and the handler. If the dog promptly returns to the line with the bird in mouth, delivers it to hand, and is under control to the level being tested I am fine with that performance. If on the other hand the dog is lethargic, runs all over the field with the bird visitng the gallery, gives the handler whistle or cast refusals, etc. then we have a problem.

[mudminnow]

Thanks for the explanation SouthBryan, i might have to check the one at the clinton house out in march. Thanks for the input to all

[SouthBryanLabs]

THe way i train my dogs leads them to pop every forty yards or so which is fine with me. And i would like the dog to run the bank there and back. anyway, if my goal is to have a dog that hunts like this...
If you watch he pops a good bit and doesn't take a straight line to things, but i am impressed with this type of hunting dog

I had an opportunity to watch the video and it is very impressive for the standards being tested. I don't know the rules of the British Field Trial standard so it would be wrong for me to comment on the merits of the performance. I don't think that the video shows the complete run so it is kind of hard to see where and when the blinds or the marks are, or the perspective and view from the retrieving line. If that same dog were to come to the States to run I am sure he would do great, as the trainer would take the obvious skills the dog has and adapt them to the standard being tested. Good dogs with skills like that are only limited by the levels to which their owners / handlers / trainers put on them. Those limitations are determined for other dogs by everything from genetics, intelligence, ability to respond to training, even the financial limitations of the owner and countless other influences. I am fascinated every day with what not only my dogs but what my friends dogs can do if they are given the proper direction and encouragement.

Thanks for the explanation SouthBryan, i might have to check the one at the clinton house out in march. Thanks for the input to all

You are welcome, and I apologize in advance for my own limitations that you might see if you ever run across me attempting to run my own dogs at either a hunt test or in a dove field.

[B.Miller]

Question. I watched another "related" video on a dog running a started field test and the handler was holding the dogs collar so they didn't break. Is this accepted at the started level?

[SouthBryanLabs]

Question. I watched another "related" video on a dog running a started field test and the handler was holding the dogs collar so they didn't break. Is this accepted at the started level?

Yes it is acceptable in both AKC Junior and HRC Started levels to restrain the dog. In AKC it is allowed to use 2 fingers under a flat buckle collar. In HRC you can hold the dog in such way that is not considered excessive or is unsafe.