How many CAT5 ?

[Steelin' Ducks]

Since there are so many pros on here I will tell yall what Im trying to do. As I said above I have built a shop-office behind my house. I need to run lines from the house to the office, about 225 ft. Here are my goals.

1. Extend house intercom system.
2. Move phone and internet( DSL Windstream) from old office in house.
3. Extend alarm system.
4. Lines to view 8 house cameras in office.
5. Lines to view 4-8 shop cameras in house
6. Line to house to control 2 garage doors on shop.

Thanks

[dukhuntr]

Since there are so many pros on here I will tell yall what Im trying to do. As I said above I have built a shop-office behind my house. I need to run lines from the house to the office, about 225 ft. Here are my goals.

1. Extend house intercom system.
2. Move phone and internet( DSL Windstream) from old office in house.
3. Extend alarm system.
4. Lines to view 8 house cameras in office.
5. Lines to view 4-8 shop cameras in house
6. Line to house to control 2 garage doors on shop.

Thanks

Okay here what I say. First off since your going to shop, make sure you keep the conduit water tight!

I know very little about security cameras so not sure what to tell you there. Do they use Cat5 or are they coax? Maybe someone will speak up on what you should do there.

Moving the DSL to shop could be tricky. Not sure what Windstream uses DSL wise, so I need a little more info there.

Do you have filter on your phones in the house?

Does your modem have it own jack, and another jack for the phone?

For sure you will have to run a wire from your phone protector to your shop, on that line will be you dial tone on one pair and possiably your data on another pair, in the same Cat5. How familiar are you with phone stuff?

On the alarm, is it going to be on its own or part of your house system? If it is going to be on it own no big deal, just need dialtone to the alarm panel. If it is going to be part of house, you would have to pull a 2 pair security wire for each station you will have(motion, door, glass break). Only way around that would be going wire a wireless system( might have one already don't know). If so it would only need the stations syncd up to your house panel.

Not real familiar with garage door, but know they run on Cat5, but that's about it. Figure 1 wire for each door also.

Hope this helps, if you got any questions shoot me a PM and I'd be glad to try and explain over the phone to help you out.

[millero]

Do all of you work for cable companies?

serious.

network admin for a city.

[millero]

Please enlighten me as to why?

I have done it and our engineers have tested as well, there is problem with it. We have several thousand houses in our fiber neighborhoods and ALL have their internet run in on a phone line with split pairs. Ethernet cables for internet only are only useing two pairs(green and Orange) in house with dialtone the blue handles the DT and the green and orange pairs handle the data, with the brown as a spare.

when you split the cable it adds unneeded noise to the link. it will still work, especially if its not a terribly long run (and ive done in it in a situation where i couldnt run any more cable) but its not the right way to do it.

[Rubberhead*]

I architected a 15,000 end-point VoIP system based on a combination of Avaya and Cisco call processing. 9,000 of these endpoints were in nuclear stations.

[millero]

Since there are so many pros on here I will tell yall what Im trying to do. As I said above I have built a shop-office behind my house. I need to run lines from the house to the office, about 225 ft. Here are my goals.

1. Extend house intercom system.
2. Move phone and internet( DSL Windstream) from old office in house.
3. Extend alarm system.
4. Lines to view 8 house cameras in office.
5. Lines to view 4-8 shop cameras in house
6. Line to house to control 2 garage doors on shop.

Thanks

for the cameras, is the dvr networkable? if it is, you just have to have network access at both places.

[Steelin' Ducks]

for the cameras, is the dvr networkable? if it is, you just have to have network access at both places.

Would I need 2 dvr's? 1 in shop, 1 in house? Or connect via wire shop cameras to dvr in house? My security guy said he could run 4 cameras off 1 cat5, sound right? I'm trying to run the wires so I dont have to pay him to.

For the phone, it is a different line than the home number. 1 cat5 line brings my dail tone and dsl. and yes I have a filter on it. Planned on going strait from the phone "box" on the house strait to the shop.

Thanks for all the input.

[millero]

Would I need 2 dvr's? 1 in shop, 1 in house? Or connect via wire shop cameras to dvr in house? My security guy said he could run 4 cameras off 1 cat5, sound right? I'm trying to run the wires so I dont have to pay him to.

For the phone, it is a different line than the home number. 1 cat5 line brings my dail tone and dsl. and yes I have a filter on it. Planned on going strait from the phone "box" on the house strait to the shop.

Thanks for all the input.

you can run 4 cameras off a cat5 cable, but i dont know if the lines would interfere with each other. i would run as many cables as i could for future needs though.

[Steelin' Ducks]

Other than advances in tech I dont think I have any other needs. Just a one man (and dog) office.

[sprigdog]

we're fortunate here at SCducks.....

shit sounds confusing, i really dont know what your talking about, way over my head....seriously..


but...if anyone ever needs help getting a boat across the atlantic, i can offer assistance.

[Steelin' Ducks]

I'll keep that in mind, thanks.

[dukhuntr]

i would run as many cables as i could for future needs though.

Solid advice! Not matter what go bigger in conduit and leave a pull string in it incase you need to add in the future! If you ever do add make sure you repull pull string!

[dukhuntr]

when you split the cable it adds unneeded noise to the link. it will still work, especially if its not a terribly long run (and ive done in it in a situation where i couldnt run any more cable) but its not the right way to do it.

Okay so we are hi jacking this mans thread, but here another question for you then. Since you say its not correct. You know anything about Wireless Access points? Mainly remotely powered ones. They are engineered to carry internet on the Og/Gr pairs and the power to run the units on the Br/Bl pairs, with that how come it does cause problems? Here you have power(not sure voltage thinking its pretty low meaning not 110!) riding in the same Cat5 as the data with not issues. They are in use all over the country in hotels now that didn't have Cat5 wireing but wanted to provide customers with internet service.

[dukhuntr]

Would I need 2 dvr's? 1 in shop, 1 in house? Or connect via wire shop cameras to dvr in house? My security guy said he could run 4 cameras off 1 cat5, sound right? I'm trying to run the wires so I dont have to pay him to.

For the phone, it is a different line than the home number. 1 cat5 line brings my dail tone and dsl. and yes I have a filter on it. Planned on going strait from the phone "box" on the house strait to the shop.

Thanks for all the input.

So you have a filter on the phone wit hthe number that the DSL is riding on? But not the rest of the house, because it is a different number, correct? You should be fine to do exactly what you said then. You will need to figure out which number is which in the phone protector, then tie in to the number wit hthe DSL and run it to shop and set up jack just like it is in house.

There is 4 pairs of wire in a Cat5 so if a camera takes only one pair yea you can do it, but like I said I don't know cameras!

[millero]

Okay so we are hi jacking this mans thread, but here another question for you then. Since you say its not correct. You know anything about Wireless Access points? Mainly remotely powered ones. They are engineered to carry internet on the Og/Gr pairs and the power to run the units on the Br/Bl pairs, with that how come it does cause problems? Here you have power(not sure voltage thinking its pretty low meaning not 110!) riding in the same Cat5 as the data with not issues. They are in use all over the country in hotels now that didn't have Cat5 wireing but wanted to provide customers with internet service.

I'm not sure what kind of AP youre talking about, but with POE, I was thinking that it only used the original 2 pairs.
According to this link it uses all of them: http://www.altair.org/labnotes_POE.html
Other than $50 DD-WRT routers, I'm only familiar with Cisco AP's though.

[willyworm]

It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it... Just saying.

The fire caulk thing- Codes vary by where you are. If in doubt caulk it, or foam it. That fire stopping foam is the shiz.

The splitting pairs thing- I might tinker with that if it was at my house. At a commercial/office setting, no way! The guy that comes behind you will have to take a few hours to figure what the hell you did. Guaranteed, he'll be cursing you.

Just do it right and be done with it. Run as many as you can fit in the pipe. Use some of that slick wire pulling gel if needed. And just make sure the wires don't cross over each other in the pipe that takes up much needed space. If the cables stay in line down the pipe it'll make things much easier.

And get non-plenum cable, it'll save you some coin.

Bog, I worked for Time Warner for about 6 years then got into the data wiring while I was going to college. I'm no expert but I've dabbled. Still do some network cabling here and there, if the price is right...

[dukhuntr]

Milliro that would be it, they are using the blue and brown to sed the pwer to the unit. THey were designed that way, having split pairs with power and data in the same wire.

Well I think we have hi jacked enough. Steelin if you got any questions we probably got you covered!

[shrpshtr]

Since there are so many pros on here I will tell yall what Im trying to do. As I said above I have built a shop-office behind my house. I need to run lines from the house to the office, about 225 ft. Here are my goals.

1. Extend house intercom system.
2. Move phone and internet( DSL Windstream) from old office in house.
3. Extend alarm system.
4. Lines to view 8 house cameras in office.
5. Lines to view 4-8 shop cameras in house
6. Line to house to control 2 garage doors on shop.

Thanks

like previously mentioned, it's not a good idea to split the cables like that. there can be several problems with this config, mainly attributed to noise. technically speaking, it can be done. let me add though, i could use peanut oil for motor oil (technically) but i wouldn't recommend that either. why? because it's not designed to be used in that application. let's face it, 225' is not exactly a short run so you're asking for some problems. if you haven't run the pipe yet, then go with a 2" pipe and you'll be able to get plenty of cables for your needs in it. know this, you'll be cussing like hell when you start experiencing latency issues with your connectivity and wishing you would have run those lines. there are some ?'s that need to be answered before i could say exactly how many lines you'd need.

1-make/model of the cameras-(are they IP based or just run on twisted pair)
2-are you leaving your dsl in the house and extending the internet to your shop or moving the dsl modem and all out to the shop?
3-what type of phone, or system, are you using? standard digital is gonna require a single dry pair.

as for the alarm system, garage doors, & intercom those all should run on dry pair without any problems. i'd consider how many alarm end points (entry ways, windows, glass break, etc.) you'll need. i'd consider a pair for each.

as far as the internet, if you're moving the dsl out to the shop then do you need to consider internet access back in the house? if so, then you'll need a line for that. you may also want to setup WiFi access in the future so i'd plan for a little growth with that.

if you'll answer those ?'s, i'd be willing to help you with a complete design.

a couple of other notes....

POE doesn't push enough power (~15w or <300mA) to cause interference. the most important factor there is that the switch with the POE port controls that output. when you manually split wires there is no control involved as each end point will attempt maximum output at the same time.

no offense to anyone here, but some of the comments in this thread only reinforce why phone/cable providers have so many communications problems with data, phone, & television feeds.

[Steelin' Ducks]

9 months later I finally have the pipe in the ground. I went with one 3/4 and one 1-1/2. So my next question is which Cat5 cable to buy? Suggestions?

[Tater]

Dammit...I had just cleared the fog from my brain due to this thread and you bring it back to life