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Thread: Scientist: Hawking is wrong, You can't explain universe without God

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    Default Scientist: Hawking is wrong, You can't explain universe without God

    As A Scientist I'm Certain Stephen Hawking Is Wrong. You Can't Explain The Universe Without God
    By Professor John Lennox


    According to Stephen Hawking, the laws
    of physics, not the will of God, provide
    the real explanation as to how life on
    Earth came into being


    There's no denying that Stephen Hawking is intellectually bold as well as physically heroic. And in his latest book, the renowned physicist mounts an audacious challenge to the traditional religious belief in the divine creation of the universe.

    According to Hawking, the laws of physics, not the will of God, provide the real explanation as to how life on Earth came into being. The Big Bang, he argues, was the inevitable consequence of these laws 'because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing.'

    Unfortunately, while Hawking's argument is being hailed as controversial and ground-breaking, it is hardly new.

    For years, other scientists have made similar claims, maintaining that the awesome, sophisticated creativity of the world around us can be interpreted solely by reference to physical laws such as gravity.

    It is a simplistic approach, yet in our secular age it is one that seems to have resonance with a skeptical public.

    But, as both a scientist and a Christian, I would say that Hawking's claim is misguided. He asks us to choose between God and the laws of physics, as if they were necessarily in mutual conflict.

    But contrary to what Hawking claims, physical laws can never provide a complete explanation of the universe. Laws themselves do not create anything, they are merely a description of what happens under certain conditions.

    What Hawking appears to have done is to confuse law with agency. His call on us to choose between God and physics is a bit like someone demanding that we choose between aeronautical engineer Sir Frank Whittle and the laws of physics to explain the jet engine.

    That is a confusion of category. The laws of physics can explain how the jet engine works, but someone had to build the thing, put in the fuel and start it up. The jet could not have been created without the laws of physics on their own - but the task of development and creation needed the genius of Whittle as its agent.

    Similarly, the laws of physics could never have actually built the universe. Some agency must have been involved.

    To use a simple analogy, Isaac Newton's laws of motion in themselves never sent a snooker ball racing across the green baize. That can only be done by people using a snooker cue and the actions of their own arms.

    Hawking's argument appears to me even more illogical when he says the existence of gravity means the creation of the universe was inevitable. But how did gravity exist in the first place? Who put it there? And what was the creative force behind its birth?

    Similarly, when Hawking argues, in support of his theory of spontaneous creation, that it was only necessary for 'the blue touch paper' to be lit to 'set the universe going', the question must be: where did this blue touch paper come from? And who lit it, if not God?

    Much of the rationale behind Hawking's argument lies in the idea that there is a deep-seated conflict between science and religion. But this is not a discord I recognize.

    For me, as a Christian believer, the beauty of the scientific laws only reinforces my faith in an intelligent, divine creative force at work. The more I understand science, the more I believe in God because of my wonder at the breadth, sophistication and integrity of his creation.

    The very reason science flourished so vigorously in the 16th and 17th centuries was precisely because of the belief that the laws of nature which were then being discovered and defined reflected the influence of a divine law-giver.

    One of the fundamental themes of Christianity is that the universe was built according to a rational , intelligent design. Far from being at odds with science, the Christian faith actually makes perfect scientific sense.

    Some years ago, the scientist Joseph Needham made an epic study of technological development in China. He wanted to find out why China, for all its early gifts of innovation, had fallen so far behind Europe in the advancement of science.

    He reluctantly came to the conclusion that European science had been spurred on by the widespread belief in a rational creative force, known as God, which made all scientific laws comprehensible.

    Despite this, Hawking, like so many other critics of religion, wants us to believe we are nothing but a random collection of molecules, the end product of a mindless process.

    This, if true, would undermine the very rationality we need to study science. If the brain were really the result of an unguided process, then there is no reason to believe in its capacity to tell us the truth.

    We live in an information age. When we see a few letters of the alphabet spelling our name in the sand, our immediate response is to recognize the work of an intelligent agent. How much more likely, then, is an intelligent creator behind the human DNA, the colossal biological database that contains no fewer than 3.5 billion 'letters'?

    It is fascinating that Hawking, in attacking religion, feels compelled to put so much emphasis on the Big Bang theory. Because, even if the non-believers don't like it, the Big Bang fits in exactly with the Christian narrative of creation.

    That is why, before the Big Bang gained currency, so many scientists were keen to dismiss it, since it seemed to support the Bible story. Some clung to Aristotle's view of the 'eternal universe' without beginning or end; but this theory, and later variants of it, are now deeply discredited.

    But support for the existence of God moves far beyond the realm of science. Within the Christian faith, there is also the powerful evidence that God revealed himself to mankind through Jesus Christ two millennia ago. This is well-documented not just in the scriptures and other testimony but also in a wealth of archaeological findings.

    Moreover, the religious experiences of millions of believers cannot lightly be dismissed. I myself and my own family can testify to the uplifting influence faith has had on our lives, something which defies the idea we are nothing more than a random collection of molecules.

    Just as strong is the obvious reality that we are moral beings, capable of understanding the difference between right and wrong. There is no scientific route to such ethics.

    Physics cannot inspire our concern for others, or the spirit of altruism that has existed in human societies since the dawn of time.

    The existence of a common pool of moral values points to the existence of transcendent force beyond mere scientific laws. Indeed, the message of atheism has always been a curiously depressing one, portraying us as selfish creatures bent on nothing more than survival and self-gratification.

    Hawking also thinks that the potential existence of other lifeforms in the universe undermines the traditional religious conviction that we are living on a unique, God-created planet. But there is no proof that other lifeforms are out there, and Hawking certainly does not present any.

    It always amuses me that atheists often argue for the existence of extra-terrestrial intelligence beyond earth. Yet they are only too eager to denounce the possibility that we already have a vast, intelligent being out there: God.

    Hawking's new fusillade cannot shake the foundations of a faith that is based on evidence.
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    I'm no scientist, but neither am I an idiot. I have read quite a few of Hawking's papers and theories and a lot of them are illogical. I think he has an amazing grasp of math, but almost a total lack of what we call 'common sense'. I have never been impressed with him other than his mathematical prowess. To me he certainly is not as he is billed, the most intelligent or smartest man alive today, far from it. I don't say that because I disagree with his system of beliefs and mores, I say that simply as a man with average intellect making a personal decision on another man's purported intelligence from my vantage point, which may very well be distorted.

    He also strikes me as an angry man, which I can understand due to the hand he's been dealt in life. But no matter the reason, I think that anger drives a lot of his theories. He's obviously angry at the God he doesn't believe in, so he attacks Him in the best way he knows how, using science and his perceived reputation for being the most intelligent man alive. How can we, being of mere average intelligence, hope to argue with him? Maybe, just maybe, his physical condition is a pre-emptive strike by God Himself to humble the man. I don't dare to try and think like or for God, I'm just presenting a purely human and personal theory or 'what-if'.
    The Elites don't fear the tall nails, government possesses both the will and the means to crush those folks. What the Elites do fear (or should fear) are the quiet men and women, with low profiles, hard hearts, long memories, and detailed target folders for action as they choose.

    "I here repeat, & would willingly proclaim, my unmitigated hatred to Yankee rule—to all political, social and business connections with Yankees, & to the perfidious, malignant, & vile Yankee race."

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    I find it amazing that so many folks will mindlessly believe in the "Big Bang" but deny "Let there be light". I don't see the difference.
    Ephesians 2 : 8-9



    Job 19:25-27 (NKJV): For I know that my Redeemer lives, And He shall stand at last on the earth; And after my skin is destroyed, this I know, That in my flesh I shall see God

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    "Scientists" can not explain why the nucleus of an atom doesn't explode.

    The replusive force between two charged paricles such as protons is

    F = 1/(4πε) x (q1*q2)/(r²)

    If you remember how small the nucleus of an atom is, then you know that the r² component is effectively 0. 1 divided by such a small number is almost infinity. So, there is an almost infinite force pushing outwardly on the protons at the center of an atom (except for Hydrogen atoms).

    Scientists can not explain this almost infinite force that hold atoms together so they call it "The Strong Force" and say that it's made up of "gluons". Then, they deny the existance of God.

    I remember when this was first presented to me in college. It was one of those defining moments that further solidified my faith in God.
    Last edited by Rubberhead*; 09-03-2010 at 03:48 AM.
    Ephesians 2 : 8-9



    Job 19:25-27 (NKJV): For I know that my Redeemer lives, And He shall stand at last on the earth; And after my skin is destroyed, this I know, That in my flesh I shall see God

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    Quote Originally Posted by some scientist View Post
    He asks us to choose between God and the laws of physics, as if they were necessarily in mutual conflict.
    It is my belief that the laws governing the physical world were put in place by God. In very simple terms, gravity, for instance, is merely a subroutine that operates without any further thought or effort.
    Last edited by Fish; 09-03-2010 at 07:33 AM.

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    I hope this guy likes burning in hell.
    You've got one life. Blaze on!

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    Just unplug his chair and roll him in the hwy.
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    get that blonde chick and her surfer dude friend to scare him out into the road is all it would take.

    Or just have him hang out with that big black boy that took on an ice cream truck. I'm sure that dude can show him how to do it.
    You've got one life. Blaze on!

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    Quote Originally Posted by squatty420 View Post
    I hope this guy likes burning in hell.
    This is just a tad over the top don't you think?

    You should say something really "sick rad" like "May God have mercy on his soul"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PBiz View Post
    Just unplug his chair and roll him in the hwy.

    thats whats up.. i just spit my coffee out.. BWAAAAHH nice PBIZ

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    Interesting article, and I think your opinion was well said and spot on Mergie.

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    Here's another article on his new book.

    LONDON (Reuters) – God did not create the universe and the "Big Bang" was an inevitable consequence of the laws of physics, the eminent British theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking argues in a new book.

    In "The Grand Design," co-authored with U.S. physicist Leonard Mlodinow, Hawking says a new series of theories made a creator of the universe redundant, according to the Times newspaper which published extracts on Thursday.

    "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," Hawking writes.

    "It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going."

    Hawking, 68, who won global recognition with his 1988 book "A Brief History of Time," an account of the origins of the universe, is renowned for his work on black holes, cosmology and quantum gravity.

    Since 1974, the scientist has worked on marrying the two cornerstones of modern physics -- Albert Einstein's General Theory of Relativity, which concerns gravity and large-scale phenomena, and quantum theory, which covers subatomic particles.

    His latest comments suggest he has broken away from previous views he has expressed on religion. Previously, he wrote that the laws of physics meant it was simply not necessary to believe that God had intervened in the Big Bang.

    He wrote in A Brief History ... "If we discover a complete theory, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason -- for then we should know the mind of God."

    In his latest book, he said the 1992 discovery of a planet orbiting another star other than the Sun helped deconstruct the view of the father of physics Isaac Newton that the universe could not have arisen out of chaos but was created by God.

    "That makes the coincidences of our planetary conditions -- the single Sun, the lucky combination of Earth-Sun distance and solar mass, far less remarkable, and far less compelling evidence that the Earth was carefully designed just to please us human beings," he writes.

    Hawking, who is only able to speak through a computer-generated voice synthesizer, has a neuro muscular dystrophy that has progressed over the years and left him almost completely paralyzed.

    He began suffering the disease in his early 20s but went on to establish himself as one of the world's leading scientific authorities, and has also made guest appearances in "Star Trek" and the cartoons "Futurama" and "The Simpsons."

    Last year he announced he was stepping down as Cambridge University's Lucasian Professor of Mathematics, a position once held by Newton and one he had held since 1979.

    "The Grand Design" is due to go on sale next week.
    Last edited by CreekGeek; 09-03-2010 at 10:19 AM. Reason: to make it easier to read

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fish View Post
    This is just a tad over the top don't you think?

    You should say something really "sick rad" like "May God have mercy on his soul"?
    Good point.

    On another note, same topic...my step-dad's a chemistry Ph.d holder and in the last ten years came to believe in a supreme being. He just came to the logical conclusion that matter has to have been created by someone and that someone had to have provided the spark that brought it to life.

    For some scientists, that's a monumental leap but one that they'd all get to if they were intellectually honest with undeniable facts. Hawking is being dishonest. Life comes from life. It's the same everywhere.

    I know that admission is not the same as believing Jesus is Lord but it's the same admission required to eventually "get there."
    Last edited by badfaulkner; 09-03-2010 at 10:18 AM.
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