What really would happen?

[murraywader]

I’d like to know more about atrazine making them infertile….seems to be bigger problem than just the ducks.

[2thDoc]

just bc we keep repeating things like "we wouldnt have ducks if not for corn ponds" doesnt make it right.

or native vegetation on the lakes.

we need to start with facts, not conjecture.

[tman]

I’d like to know more about atrazine making them infertile….seems to be bigger problem than just the ducks.

1)Atrazine use is tightly linked to modern agricultural intensification, and its runoff into wetlands suppresses the growth of natural moist‑soil plants that waterfowl depend on for seeds and invertebrate habitat.

2)By reducing plant diversity and productivity, atrazine indirectly lowers the availability of both high‑energy seeds and protein‑rich invertebrates that ducks need for migration and breeding.

3) This habitat modification/simplification/damage forces waterfowl to rely more heavily on agricultural grain (corn and corn ponds), making ducks more vulnerable when natural foods are scarce and/or when ag based food sources are removed.

4)Direct physiological effects om ducks compound the nutritional challenges created by degraded wetlands/habitat/food sources.

5) long term result is that atrazine weakens the overall ecological foundation waterfowl/birds rely on, reducing overall condition, resilience, and long‑term population stability.

https://youtube.com/shorts/3TN9K2r2A...Bppv1R4SgHAn5C

[BOGSTER]

and herein lies the problem with what the Bogster is trying to discuss.

we have to start with facts.

Do corn ponds in the southern states negatively affect waterfowl?

I don't know - I'm simply asking the question if flooded corn has been a positive or negative long term?
I know we have altered natural wintering habits in SC with them.

Is it nationwide? It seems in NC this is the case.

Was it better pre corn?

It tickles me when people take the stance that a wild animal, created by God would collapse into extinction without man's help.

negatively affect waterfowl? you mean there health, or there migration patterns, distances, and timing, or there chances of dying from getting shot in said corn pond?

I never claimed such for the record.

[BOGSTER]

I've said it for the last 25 years, SC wouldn't have ducks without impoundments. The only negative is getting killed, other than that what other negatives can you come up with?

Most impoundments manage pressure and hunt once per week, regardless of whether there is corn or not, impoundments create habitat and work.

With all due respect, that's simply not true.

The largest congregation of impoundment (and waterfowl) in SC is Clarendon County, by a longshot.
"Most" impoundments hunt TWICE a week on the dot.

Negatives:

With a majority of impoundments shooting wed/sat, and the remaining shooting tues/fri - the ducks have become so conditioned to this pressure that it has caused (40-50k) puddle ducks to go solely nocturnal. Night feeding on the ponds and loafing the refuge all day.
That was all well and good, because the ole faithful ringneck would run the gauntlet every day for 15 years.

Now, even they have succumbed to the pressure and have begun holding tight to the refuge until 9-10am, and have lost almost all patterning.
This pond one day, this pond the next.

Are the ducks better off? I think they are.

Has it altered their natural wintering patterns? You're damn right it has.


I hunt corn a lot, and enjoy every bit of it. But that doesn't mean I can't take notice to how it's affected waterfowl.


Also, for years we thought that more food/corn meant more ducks....

I'm not so sure that's truly the case. We have certainly stolen some of the coastal ducks, but a new 50ac corn pond hasn't proven to winter additional ducks.

As new impoundments are built every single year, the ones holding the ducks are the private fields that do manage pressure.

[Catdaddy]

What are we going to do about the hydrilla when Florida complains about Santee short stopping the ringnecks?

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[BOGSTER]

What are we going to do about the hydrilla when Florida complains about Santee short stopping the ringnecks?

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Tell em to shut their pie holes.....

We raise a gracious plenty wood ducks and tree ducks for them and they should stop being ungrateful lol.

[tman]

It tickles me when people take the stance that a wild animal, created by God would collapse into extinction without man's help.

Have you heard of dinosaurs? God is sovereign over them too. Every plant, animal, and material on this earth exists because He allows it. If something goes extinct, with or without man's influence, its because He allows it. And thankfully He does because I dont wanna have to fight a T Rex - im getting too old.

[BOGSTER]

What's a dinosaur?

A critter we stopped feeding and it went extinct because it was so dependent on us?

If so, I retract my post and offer a public apology.

[tman]

Ahh. That context is helpful. I misunderstood your "it tickles me" statement as an assertion that any extinction must be related to humans. Carry on.

[cajunwannabe]

.

As new impoundments are built every single year, the ones holding the ducks are the private fields that do manage pressure.

This was my point. I don't consider duck clubs pounding on ducks from 30 blinds two days / week all season as managing pressure.

Ducks going nocturnal is God's design. Deer do it, it's a survival instinct. Natures response to pressure, to survive. I don't think it's a bad thing. I can show you 1000's of ducks on public water a week before duck season opens and 3 days of folks "scouting" before opening day, aka running mud boats all over, and poof, they're gone.

We are bulldozing and developing SC at an unsustainable rate. A 9,000 acre "Point Hope" is in the works off Clements Ferry Rd in Charleston supporting 12,000 homes, impoundments are all ducks in SC are going to have left. Without impoundments (not just corn) or well managed places like Santee Coastal, Bonneau Ferry, private plantations, where would ducks go? I'd love to think Murray, Moultrie or Marion, and they might, to feed at night.

[drwilly]

I never claimed such for the record.

my point was not directed at you or 2th or anyone in particular. The questions being asked are vague on both sides. does something help or hurt? is it good or bad? is it better or worse. clarity and specificity would help this debate. for example your original questions were fairly specific. but the questions and answers have gotten vaguer and broader as the this thread has progressed.

[BRR]

Ducks ability to adapt is far greater than the number of brain cells than most duck stamp holders possess......

[WNM]

Even if corn ponds and private impoundments were magically gone and the lakes were full of beneficial vegetation that was as attractive as corn, would the amount of relentless harassment not drive the birds nocturnal feeding (like what is already going on now)?

Getting hunted two days a week on a corn pond is certainly not exponentially more pressure than what would be exerted on them on public (if they had no private sanctuary to feed in). Loafing during the day on private or government refuge, feeding (public or private) at night. Even if the lakes and rivers were planted in wall to wall corn, the constant harassment would be too great for birds to consistently use them. Unless pressure and harassment drops by exponential levels, I don't see how public land hunting ever stands a chance of doing anything but getting worse every year.

[Catdaddy]

The public hunter is mad that the ducks have adjusted to their relentless pressure. The private landowners have given them acceptable options. The government has given them acceptable options with refuges.

The public hunter wants all those options taken away. They want to go back to the good old days when they could chase them any where they went. Those days arent coming back.



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[BOGSTER]

The public hunter is mad that the ducks have adjusted to their relentless pressure. The private landowners have given them acceptable options. The government has given them acceptable options with refuges.

The public hunter wants all those options taken away. They want to go back to the good old days when they could chase them any where they went. Those days arent coming back.



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I can't speak for all public hunters. I can speak for me as a duck hunter in SC who hunts both public and private.

I thoroughly enjoy all of the flooded corn hunts I am invited to hunt each year.

That said, I was raised on public, and will always take more satisfaction on coercing a bird into a spread where he never had any intention on being versus bringing him into a spread where he's absolutely coming anyway.

You aren't wrong that private has given the ducks options. You aren't wrong that the government has too.

The truth is that the public hasn't had a damn thing to do with the "relentless pressure" on the most ducks in the state for several years.
Private has. And by offering said ducks tens of thousands of acres of undisturbed resting, and feed on said refuge, paired with that private pressure, we have created a scenario where the vast majority of wintering waterfowl in SC have become nocturnal, unhuntable, freeloaders that sit in the refuge all day long and roost in the corn.

Fact: Clarendon Corn has drawn and held a ton of ducks in the Santee Cooper area, that does benefit the public for a short time.
Fact: Wed/Sat and Tues/Fri hunting has driven the majority of the ducks that winter here to a nocturnal pattern in the last several years.
Fact: Clarendon Corn has negatively effected the other two traditional wintering grounds for the last 5 years.
Shovelers, greenwings, and pintails should be on the coast...... they're sitting in SNWR everyday, night feeding on corn up here.



How much acreage do ducks need in a refuge to not leave and estimated 12-15,000 acres of corn?
Is Jacks Creek to Wyboo too much?

Genuine ponder: Are ducks so very fragile that opening the cow pasture and the plantation islands to every saturday til noon that it will cause them winter in another flyway?
Or will the ducks adjust and find another area and simply pile in there and continue to sit all day there and night feed?

I agree that refuges are good. I'm just not so sure that giving them the same place year after year is the best, and I'm pretty sure that stirring them up occasionally won't cause population collapse.

Stop blaming "the public hunter" as if he has caused all the problems in waterfowling in SC.

[Catdaddy]

Ponder: Are ducks so very fragile that opening the cow pasture and the plantation islands to every saturday til noon that it will cause them winter in another flyway?
Or will the ducks adjust and find another area and simply pile in there and continue to sit all day there and night feed?

I cut my teeth hunting public and guess I have killed twice as many on public waters than private. My most enjoyable hunting was in Snake, Mill, and Pine Island Creek,...by far.

I remember hunting Twin Islands in Moultrie when the water was low(1967). Mallards came flock after flock at 9 am to dabble and rest in the sandy pools on the 1 acre of sand that was exposed. They fed at daybreak til 9am in Russcon corn ponds behind Bonneau Beach. The first corn impoundment I had ever heard of. The flocks looked like gnats coming.

I also remember hunting Pinopolis hatchery back then on Saturdays. It closed at noon. At 12.15 the sky was full of ducks. Thats what will happen if you open the Cow Pasture for limited hunting.

All good mallard/gadwall/widgeon hunting takes place near a refuge, whether government or private. You take that away and you are hunting wood ducks.


Heres some results from the GPS mallards which Dr. Cohen is studying

[nitro5x6's]

I've whacked a many a mallard duck that came to eat corn on a feedlot ...

I note again " to build reserves for migration" Meaning the trip home. The best thing we can do for ducks , short of closing hunting altogether is to provide them with easy food access postseason. That my friends is being a steward to the resource.

[2thDoc]

did Two Ponds (or whatever it is called) get bought by the DNR?

[swampknob]

Hopefully not for the 15k an acre its listed for.