What really would happen?

[BOGSTER]

It tickles me when people think that flooding row crops so they can kill 2-3 x the average number of birds as hunters on public land think they are helping ducks.
You think Carters Big Island is helping those ducks on the refuge beside them?
How about those big money outfits in Missouri that buy or lease land next to the refuges there and kill thousands of birds in their “habitat”?
They compete to pull birds away from the refuges so they can kill them, not because they want to give those birds “habitat”.
Flooding unharvested crops is their best method. It is done to kill ducks, lots of them.
Even if they plant areas they do not hunt, it is so they can kill higher numbers in the areas they do hunt.

Conserving areas in the breeding range is the only habitat that matters. There are plenty of refuges and food for ducks.


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Well said.

[tman]

What would really happen???? My 2 cents...

1) immediately , elimination of flooded high-carb food source ponds would decrease the overall carrying capacity of waterfowl across the continent. Duck numbers overall drop. Lots of corn ponds converted to moist soil areas. Moist soil requires more intense management from my understanding.

2) the quality of hunting on private lands would decrease and it would be less "appealing" to hunters to spend money to hunt private. Aka the ducks "spread out"

3) therefore, those displaced private land hunters would probably shift to hunting public land , if they didn't just give up. This includes OOS hunters, leases, guided hunts on private, etc

4) ducks will continue to avoid (increasingly) over pressured public areas but would probably migrate more strongly based on weather patterns and push farther south some years, despite lower carrying capacity/population

5) final net result: continentally, less ducks than you started with and more "feast or famine" seasons for southern states dependent on the weather.

6)now all that said..... a word about HERBICIDE Ironically, atrazine’s suppression of natural wetland plants/foods is one big reason ducks have become so dependent on corn. Atrazine/herbicide runoff results in a loss of natural wetland vegetation, loss of invertebrates, and loss of plant diversity. More directly, waterfowl exposed to herbicide runoff food sources are affected physiologically, experience negative reproductive system impacts, and sometimes feeding and alertness behavior changes.

7) so my final point. "Agricultural intensification" as a whole is causing a lot of direct and indirect affects to waterfowl populations. Resulting in less acres, and lower quality wetlands, year-round and contintent-wide. (Not) Flooding crops alone probably won't "solve" the problem. You have to zoom out - the problem is bigger than that and its not limited to just waterfowl.

https://news.vt.edu/articles/2024/01...pulations.html

[Palmetto Duck]

You have done more research on this and killed more ducks on Public than I ever will BUT looking at coastal SC can the argument not be made that all those rice fields planting rice for several hundreds years is what made it so good and why ducks are so keyed in on the area? The plantations that stopped planting years ago (besides Santee Coastal) how are their numbers?

But yes I think the robots, the accessibility with motors, and no rest days have a huge impact. You can’t shoot ducks on Sunday in NC. Why don’t we do that?

What about outfitters who are booked up 60 days a season with 1-10 people per group? Not sure what can be done that’s just as detrimental. Similar to someone who has filled their Turkey tags and starts taking friends just they can watch more birds die.

OH NO YOU DI ‘UNTT with that last sentence??!! Be careful the TFC’ers will be in here with the quickness telling you they’re promoting the sport and know how many birds they can kill per piece of property they have to hunt and do it for the children.... and besides that they trap year round. Then in the next breath they tell you they saw 8 die this year or called 10 to the gun. Yeah that’s their “ conservation”. They saved one of their tags even. Never mind they called up 15 for other people.

[loud1]

It amuses me that everyone wants to blame the only people helping ducks. The ones that are creating habitat and refuge, yeah they are the problem, not the guys who travel all over the country hunt 50+ days a season and do nothing for the ducks.

I disagree. Most impoundments are drained immediately after the season and are death traps for the ducks. Hunting over flooded corn is easy you can shoot them and they will come right back sometimes. Also people tend to shoot way over legal limits more often on private corn ponds due to a sense of entitlement and security.

[Smilee]

The ducks would feed in open fields. Eat scattered grain and loaf on water sources nearby.

Snow/ice covers the food source and they move on to the next spot. Typically further south.

[Calibogue]

I disagree. Most impoundments are drained immediately after the season and are death traps for the ducks. Hunting over flooded corn is easy you can shoot them and they will come right back sometimes. Also people tend to shoot way over legal limits more often on private corn ponds due to a sense of entitlement and security.

Did you really just put all that bullshit in one statement?

[12341234]

It tickles me when people think that flooding row crops so they can kill 2-3 x the average number of birds as hunters on public land think they are helping ducks.
You think Carters Big Island is helping those ducks on the refuge beside them?
How about those big money outfits in Missouri that buy or lease land next to the refuges there and kill thousands of birds in their “habitat”?
They compete to pull birds away from the refuges so they can kill them, not because they want to give those birds “habitat”.
Flooding unharvested crops is their best method. It is done to kill ducks, lots of them.
Even if they plant areas they do not hunt, it is so they can kill higher numbers in the areas they do hunt.

Conserving areas in the breeding range is the only habitat that matters. There are plenty of refuges and food for ducks.


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Again, how many birds does a corn pond or any impoundment feed house during a season, and how many birds do they kill? Now how many birds do the public kill and how many birds do they feed help throug out the season. The public land is being destroyed by governments killing off aquatic vegetation, wetlands are being lost to development, state programs are no longer seeding like they once did. So who is actually doing anything positive for the birds? Please tell me where in South Carolina a bird can go and feed outside of private? If there was no private or refuge there would be no ducks killed on public.

Private land offers the number one ultimate factor for birds to stay in an area and that is not corn, its lack of pressure. If you were to plant a million acres of corn and turn it over to public and allow hunting 7 days a week there would be 0 ducks on it. You said there is plenty of natural food available, then there should be no issue killing ducks in those places.

[nitro5x6's]

According to the Arkansas GFC , their aerial survey estimated that there 337,479 Mallards and 694,286 total ducks counted in the last week of January. This low count was attributed to drought conditions. Mallard numbers were down by 121,205 birds.

Mallard numbers were down 68%. Total numbers 54% below the long term average. Don't shoot the messenger.

[Catdaddy]

I disagree. Most impoundments are drained immediately after the season and are death traps for the ducks. Hunting over flooded corn is easy you can shoot them and they will come right back sometimes.

This is complete bs. Most impoundments are left flooded as long as they can for the ducks.

Corn will not grow in wet-poorly drained soil,.....which is a moist area. Corn is planted in higher well drained fields surrounded by a dike. These fields won't convert to moist soil units without the owners pumping water on them throughout the spring and summer.

Like it or not, corn/sorghum impoundments are additional waterfowl habitat that wouldnt convert to habitat if left unplanted..

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[Tranquility]

The coastal rice plantations probably did attract ducks, but not in the way flooded crops do today. You have to remember, during "duck season," the only water in a rice field would have been in the canals. The fields would have been dry immediately post harvest.

[centurian]

Waterfowl is not being managed at the national or state level with the public hunter in mind. Money talks and if you dont believe than you are foolish. SC used to have some pretty good hunting on the upstate rivers but very few utilized it due to the difficulty of getting in and out. Now all those rivers are either refuge or part of som kind of looney lottery system withmore hunting pressure than we ever put on those places as they opened access to these hidden jewels. Ducks will not withstand it new popularity.

Increasing the waterfowl population is the same as with turkey and deer, if you want to have a higher population you have to kill fewer animals. Several ways to do that shorter season, lower bag limits, open season so as not to expose all the birds to pressure. They will not do any of that. Does it really matter if a migratory duck is killed in ND or SC? Only to0 SC public hunters

[Calibogue]

There is an awful lot of misinformation in this thread!

[drwilly]

There is an awful lot of misinformation in this thread!

agreed. and assumptions.

[FEETDOWN]

I hate being pessimistic, but I'm afraid that "the good ole days" really are gone as it relates to most hunting and fishing. We aren't managing our wildlife populations according to what's best for the wildlife, we're managing it based on the "industry". Follow the money. Bag limits and season dates, habitat management, rules on motorized decoys, hunting over unharvested crops, etc. The industry is too big to make decisions that truly benefit the species anymore, too much money involved, and the money is gonna drive it. Gotta have CONTENT Bo.....

Everybody keeps trying to point to one thing, but it's a combination of things, and I don't see any of them changing. Social media, mud motors, robo ducks, online mapping/GPS, guides that start in Canada in September and follow what's left of the migration all the way to AR in February, allowing people that don't know a mallard from a coot to "make piles" for their Instagram followers.

I love it so much, but I hate what it's become

[loud1]

Did you really just put all that bullshit in one statement?

Yes- big corn pond guy.

[loud1]

Just because you don’t take advantage of a resource at your impoundment doesn’t mean other people do not. I see it all the time.

[Buckin Bronco]

I hate being pessimistic, but I'm afraid that "the good ole days" really are gone as it relates to most hunting and fishing. We aren't managing our wildlife populations according to what's best for the wildlife, we're managing it based on the "industry". Follow the money. Bag limits and season dates, habitat management, rules on motorized decoys, hunting over unharvested crops, etc. The industry is too big to make decisions that truly benefit the species anymore, too much money involved, and the money is gonna drive it. Gotta have CONTENT Bo.....

Everybody keeps trying to point to one thing, but it's a combination of things, and I don't see any of them changing. Social media, mud motors, robo ducks, online mapping/GPS, guides that start in Canada in September and follow what's left of the migration all the way to AR in February, allowing people that don't know a mallard from a coot to "make piles" for their Instagram followers.

I love it so much, but I hate what it's become

Totally agree

[centurian]

I hate being pessimistic, but I'm afraid that "the good ole days" really are gone as it relates to most hunting and fishing. We aren't managing our wildlife populations according to what's best for the wildlife, we're managing it based on the "industry". Follow the money. Bag limits and season dates, habitat management, rules on motorized decoys, hunting over unharvested crops, etc. The industry is too big to make decisions that truly benefit the species anymore, too much money involved, and the money is gonna drive it. Gotta have CONTENT Bo.....

Everybody keeps trying to point to one thing, but it's a combination of things, and I don't see any of them changing. Social media, mud motors, robo ducks, online mapping/GPS, guides that start in Canada in September and follow what's left of the migration all the way to AR in February, allowing people that don't know a mallard from a coot to "make piles" for their Instagram followers.

I love it so much, but I hate what it's become

X2

[loud1]

I hate being pessimistic, but I'm afraid that "the good ole days" really are gone as it relates to most hunting and fishing. We aren't managing our wildlife populations according to what's best for the wildlife, we're managing it based on the "industry". Follow the money. Bag limits and season dates, habitat management, rules on motorized decoys, hunting over unharvested crops, etc. The industry is too big to make decisions that truly benefit the species anymore, too much money involved, and the money is gonna drive it. Gotta have CONTENT Bo.....

Everybody keeps trying to point to one thing, but it's a combination of things, and I don't see any of them changing. Social media, mud motors, robo ducks, online mapping/GPS, guides that start in Canada in September and follow what's left of the migration all the way to AR in February, allowing people that don't know a mallard from a coot to "make piles" for their Instagram followers.

I love it so much, but I hate what it's become

Correct. That’s why I deer hunt pretty much exclusively now.

I enjoy the social aspect of wing shooting more than anything else.

I like to watch the ducks during deer season in different little holes before they get harassed by the masses and leave.

[Remy]

I'll solve the problem for you.

1950 US population: 148 million
2025 US population: 343 million

Takeaways:

Those 195 million extra people have to live somewhere - loss of land to development
More hunters + more time and money = bad for ducks

People have more disposable income and more time than ever before in human history. This surely leads to more ducks dying due to vast opportunity for many hunters. Many of our grandparents would have laughed at someone spending thousands of dollars to let another man take him duck hunting in another state. Now it's normal and big business.