SCDNR turkey hunting survey

[JOHNSON]

Quit killing multiple birds. You all can talk in circles all you want but it doesn’t matter a single bit until you take it upon yourself. Tell me I’m wrong.


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[TXFowler]

Quit killing multiple birds. You all can talk in circles all you want but it doesn’t matter a single bit until you take it upon yourself. Tell me I’m wrong.


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Obviously. So you want to reduce the bag limit to 1? Bet that will be wildly popular!


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[JOHNSON]

I ain’t in it for a popularity contest.

I’m just pointing out that people keep killing the limit and bitch about low numbers.
I wish the population could support killing a limit every year but it can’t.

Most everyone bitching in this thread kills or is party to a bird being killed beyond one.



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[TXFowler]

It’s DNRs job to set the limit based on the sustainability of the resource. I only killed one, but if the other 3 I had in gun range would’ve acted right, Idda shot at them if my bag wasn’t full.


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[JOHNSON]

It’s DNRs job to set the limit based on the sustainability of the resource. I only killed one, but if the other 3 I had in gun range would’ve acted right, Idda shot at them if my bag wasn’t full.


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I understand that. I’m just pointing out the obvious. I am not trying to poopoo on someone else’s hunting. I really would like to hunt more than I do. I just don’t.


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[loud1]

None of this really matters if it’s not enforced.. I’ve been checked once in my entire life turkey hunting. Never on public.

[Coastal Woodie]

I see no problem with killing a limit every year if the property you're hunting can sustain it. However, people killing a field gobbler on March 22nd who has a dozen hens with him is a problem. If you have 3 or 4 gobblers, shoot one and let the others live.

[Jay]

I hunted once this year. My son shot one on that hunt. We saw 8 mature birds and heard many more. This property was pristine with zero predator control. If more people focused on habitat, I think the problem would be solved. I also think we should outlaw male decoys and reaping just cause it’s lame.

[AnythingFeathers]

You obviously did not listen, or listened and did not hear, the podcast. Or you just listen to Calibouge’s BS. They state very clearly that it has been accepted for publication. “An accepted article is the version updated to include the author's revisions after peer review, before any typesetting or light corrections completed by Production for the journal. This is often the version accepted by the editor”. It has been peer reviewed, it is a “very solid research project”, one of the most extensive studies done at this point. Chamberlain’s dominate gobbler theories are solid also. But if you hear what they are saying. The laying and incubating is what’s happening around the first week of April, not the actual breeding. Breeding is started a week or 2 earlier, that is where Chamberlains study would find stronger footing. If they are nest by April 3-9 they more than likely bred a week or 2 earlier. Even though our esteemed head biologist thinks a hen can breed and “ immediately” lay a fully developed, fertilized egg ( it is actually physically impossible), that is not what happens. They breed, several times, select a nesting site, start laying eggs. This can take several days and even weeks. The point of the whole thing is that starting season at laying time does not appear to have negative effect on population recruitment. Harper does point out that this does not mean that some areas wouldn’t benefit from a later start based on the biology of the breeding dates and the start dates of there season. It differs from north to south. So, theoretically the Lowcountry could likely benefit, population wise, from starting sometime in the first week of April.
Listen to the podcast again. This time all the way thru and pay attention.The idea is not to have competing theories but to put all these studies together to find the solution. And we should not pick the one that sounds good to you and stick by it as gospel and downgrade all others. You need to listen to them all objectively.

Don’t depend on what you’ve heard from someone who thinks, or likes to think, that they are in the know. Quite a few on here that love to use the phrases, “ from what I hear” or “from what I’ve been told” to make it sound like they have special insight. That’s are phrases used by bullshitters who just listen to hearsay and usually only know half the stiory.

[FULLCHOKE]

Well…what are your credentials or information then besides just this one podcast?

Side note. I hate podcasts. I really don’t listen to them. They’re an excuse for anyone to grab a microphone, record themselves, pump up their ego, and tell the world that what they’re saying is the truth. Go read the actual research articles, go read the studies, go read a book on management, breeding, or turkey ecology.

[FOWL MOUTH]

Ask yourself what's changed from years past.. Timber has always been cut and replanted. Coons and bobcats have always eaten eggs/turkeys. We have coyotes that we didn't years ago, and we have more turkey hunters now (thanks to social media) than ever before that use decoys, fans, cell cams, etc. The legal resources hunters use (ethical or not), coyotes and an increase in turkey hunters are what's changed from years past when we had a lot of birds.

[tman]

The fragmentation of habitat, and habitat that is being lost or degraded through parcels being divided, timber being managed as priority instead of wildlife, properties being converted from hardwoods to pines, woods being converted to walmart parking lot, the list goes on and on really....

[BRR]

Morons that saw 8 plus gobblers on a property and think they have good turkey habitat are the problem too. Just because you have a pretty place that Gobblers want to come risk death in, in the spring doesn't mean you have good nesting or brooding cover. The real measure is how many hens and poults do you have at the end of the summer, not how many gobnlers do you have in the spring. Gobblers will travel long distances to their spring range.

[Tater]

Chamberlain’s dominate gobbler theories are solid also. But if you hear what they are saying. The laying and incubating is what’s happening around the first week of April, not the actual breeding. Breeding is started a week or 2 earlier, that is where Chamberlains study would find stronger footing. If they are nest by April 3-9 they more than likely bred a week or 2 earlier. Even though our esteemed head biologist thinks a hen can breed and “ immediately” lay a fully developed, fertilized egg ( it is actually physically impossible), that is not what happens. They breed, several times, select a nesting site, start laying eggs. This can take several days and even weeks.

Sounds like a good argument for an April 10 start date to me.

[tman]

Lack of land management amd land use policy that protects sustainable forest/wildlife management and encourages the industrialization of south carolina is the problem. The loss of turkeys is just one symptom. SCDNR is having a very difficult time, and will continue to struggle, as long as management is done at the hunter level. The problem is bigger than that. Big game populations can't sustainably be managed on a property by property basis, where everyone with rights to be on the property gets a set of tags to hunt with whatever means or methods they deem sporting. Nobody wants to have a nanny state, but what's happening is a lack of sideboards regarding sustainable land management in SC which results in cutting up tracts of land, conversion from forest and ag to other use, and a lack of care regarding forestry techniques thats catered to timber harvest, and avoids wildlife management.

[TXFowler]

None of this really matters if it’s not enforced.. I’ve been checked once in my entire life turkey hunting. Never on public.

Crazy enough, I can’t think of a time I’ve been checked either. On the flip side, I can’t remember a time I pulled up to a public ramp during duck season and wasn’t checked…


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[TXFowler]

Lack of land management amd land use policy that protects sustainable forest/wildlife management and encourages the industrialization of south carolina is the problem. The loss of turkeys is just one symptom. SCDNR is having a very difficult time, and will continue to struggle, as long as management is done at the hunter level. The problem is bigger than that. Big game populations can't sustainably be managed on a property by property basis, where everyone with rights to be on the property gets a set of tags to hunt with whatever means or methods they deem sporting. Nobody wants to have a nanny state, but what's happening is a lack of sideboards regarding sustainable land management in SC which results in cutting up tracts of land, conversion from forest and ag to other use, and a lack of care regarding forestry techniques thats catered to timber harvest, and avoids wildlife management.

I can’t remember the acreage numbers (I’ll have to dig them up), but the amount of acreage lost to pine nothingness and industrialization in the past 20 years is astounding. Incomprehensible to most.


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[YoungBuckTX]

1. Habitat loss due to property fragmentation and urban development 2. Nest predation 3. Hunting pressure

[TXFowler]

Pine plantations represent 20% of the entire landscape of the southeast.

Between 1950 and 1990 pine plantations increased by 30 million acres (that’s roughly the 1.5 times the acreage of the state of South Carolina) and another 31+ million acres has been lost to urban development since 1982. For those counting, we’re up to a total habitat loss equal to more than 3 times the state of South Carolina. That doesn’t include pine plantations planted post 1990 or urban development from 1950-1982.

From the 70s to the 2000s we went from 90 cubic feet of wood per acre in a pine plantation to over 400 cubic feet per acre-ain’t much use in that for a turkey, or much else


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[Calibogue]

You obviously did not listen, or listened and did not hear, the podcast. Or you just listen to Calibouge’s BS. They state very clearly that it has been accepted for publication. “An accepted article is the version updated to include the author's revisions after peer review, before any typesetting or light corrections completed by Production for the journal. This is often the version accepted by the editor”. It has been peer reviewed, it is a “very solid research project”, one of the most extensive studies done at this point. Chamberlain’s dominate gobbler theories are solid also. But if you hear what they are saying. The laying and incubating is what’s happening around the first week of April, not the actual breeding. Breeding is started a week or 2 earlier, that is where Chamberlains study would find stronger footing. If they are nest by April 3-9 they more than likely bred a week or 2 earlier. Even though our esteemed head biologist thinks a hen can breed and “ immediately” lay a fully developed, fertilized egg ( it is actually physically impossible), that is not what happens. They breed, several times, select a nesting site, start laying eggs. This can take several days and even weeks. The point of the whole thing is that starting season at laying time does not appear to have negative effect on population recruitment. Harper does point out that this does not mean that some areas wouldn’t benefit from a later start based on the biology of the breeding dates and the start dates of there season. It differs from north to south. So, theoretically the Lowcountry could likely benefit, population wise, from starting sometime in the first week of April.
Listen to the podcast again. This time all the way thru and pay attention.The idea is not to have competing theories but to put all these studies together to find the solution. And we should not pick the one that sounds good to you and stick by it as gospel and downgrade all others. You need to listen to them all objectively.

Don’t depend on what you’ve heard from someone who thinks, or likes to think, that they are in the know. Quite a few on here that love to use the phrases, “ from what I hear” or “from what I’ve been told” to make it sound like they have special insight. That’s are phrases used by bullshitters who just listen to hearsay and usually only know half the stiory.

Sorry pal, but as I already said it is "in the review process."
A lot of variables involved with review such as where was it submitted, what professionals will conduct the review, and how strenuous the review will be.
This usually involves questions, critique, request for data.
It could take weeks, months, or longer with a lot of back and forth all depending on where they submitted it.
Also, it will not get published in a legitimate journal without some level of review.
It will be interesting to see how it shakes out but I'd be willing to bet it has been pushed for review away from the critical thinking of Collier and Chamberlain for obvious reasons.

I know Craig Harper personally and think the world of him.
He is a foremost authority on vegetative management and a wizard full of knowledge in that respect.
I don't doubt the role that habitat and predator management play in game management as most on here surely feel the same way.
But, to discount the importance of letting the breeding cycle play out before we begin to harvest our birds especially right now with declining populations is ignorant.

We have no business killing turkeys during the month of March in SC, period!
Unfortunately, most of the people hanging on to the idea of a March start date are doing so for selfish reasons, because my daddy did it in March, my birds are OK, etc etc

Craig went into this study vocally opposed to the TN moving their start date back and that is a fact.
At the end of the day, that raises questions for pause as to how the data is interpreted in the study.

Regardless, I still think the world of Craig but I'm hanging my hat with the two men who have dedicated their lives to studying and better understanding the wild turkey, not the vegetative specialist!