2 Items - Shingle Roof Leak & Deck Replacement

[WoodieSC]

I'd appreciate some expert advice from the brain trust here on these two issues:

1. During our rain storms last night we had a leak start dripping through the door molding from the kitchen to the Great Room. Fortunately I have easy access to that section of the attic and could easily ID where the leak was coming through the roof vs. the ceiling.

The issue, obviously, is figuring out where the leak starts vs. where it's coming through a shingle nail hole. This leak point is about 8' above the bottom edge of the roof, or about 2/3 - 3/4 of the way down from the peak... and about 3' over from a valley.

The roof is now 21 years old, Owens Corning Oak Ridge architectural 3-tab shingles with a 25(?) yr. warranty, which may not be worth much at this point.

There is NO obvious damage to the roof other than its age is showing up in loss of granules. I had it inspected two years ago and at that point I was told to plan for "4-5 years" before I'd need to think about replacing it.

Is there a 'trick' to tracking down how high up the roof the actual leak is coming from? I've inspected the interior of the roof sheathing in the attic and the ONLY evidence of any leakage is this one, with some evidence of wet spots farther down and to the right where the water apparently first showed itself.

Also, can anyone personally recommend a residential roofer they'd trust in the Anderson area? I've got a guy from Findlay Roofing ('Roof Roof') coming over on Monday to take a look, but if we start talking replacement I'll be getting multiple bids for sure.

2. When we built the house I had 5/4" kiln-dried red cedar used for the back deck, railing and stairs. The deck boards are at the point where I need to replace all of it, partly because the builder didn't put the 1/8" gaps between the boards like I asked so water never drained properly after a rain and the cedar has finally given up and rotted, but I also gave up using sealer because it seemed like more trouble than it was worth (Thompson's sucks).

The original treated joists, et al, are fine and the brick columns and footers underneath are good-as-new.

I've priced out the "YellaWood KDAT" as a base product. Any idea what kind of life-span can be expected from this treated wood?

What other reasonably priced products might you guys recommend? I've looked briefly at Trex, MoistureShield, and TimberTech, but none real seriously as yet.

I'm not looking to build a high-end deck for parties. Just a quiet little space (14'x18'+/-) off the Great Room and Sun Rooms to sit and watch the wildlife from time to time.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions and tips.

[reeltight]

I'd use a manufactured deck board if you have the extra coin. The ones they make these days don't hold heat and will last forever.

[WoodieSC]

I'd use a manufactured deck board if you have the extra coin. The ones they make these days don't hold heat and will last forever.

I was over at GBS Lumber at lunch to pick some stuff up and looked briefly at the composite boards. I was pretty surprised to see what looks to be a rather 'slick/slipper' plastic feeling surface.

Are these composite boards slippery when wet?

Hotter than wood on bare feet, etc?

[reeltight]

I was over at GBS Lumber at lunch to pick some stuff up and looked briefly at the composite boards. I was pretty surprised to see what looks to be a rather 'slick/slipper' plastic feeling surface.

Are these composite boards slippery when wet?

Hotter than wood on bare feet, etc?

Depends on what you get. Most are textured and are not slick. The old stuf held heat bad and you could not stand on it barefeet. However they are now making it with reflective properties which make it cooler than wood.

There are so many options out there now you will just have to do a little research to see what you like

[deepsouth]

Yellow wood sux. Go to cox lumber web page. They have a newer decking products. I like them and so far no customer complaints

[charlie horse]

I use Culpepper Clear on 99% of the decks I build. Maintenance is the key to longevity...spend more on the stain/sealer, price and warranty will tell you all you need to know.

[paynej]

Without seeing your roof, staining, leak locations, etc. it's hard to be specific with an answer. But, if your roof is 21 years old, the water is probably draining below your shingles through a nail-pop or mechanical fracture in a shingle. It's then, likely, draining down the asphalt felt underlayment (if that's what's installed) to a fastener location and migrating through the felt and roof sheathing to the attic.

What's your roof slope? The lower the slope slower the water drains. Have you had any mastic installed over your shingles as a repair attempt? Is the leak near a roof vent (if so it could just be a deteriorated boot or bad flashing)? Do you have any roof penetrations upslope of the stain (chimney, roof vent, satellite dish, etc.)? If so, the cause could be deteriorated sealant or deficient flashing.

These are just thoughts. Hope they help.

[WoodieSC]

I use Culpepper Clear on 99% of the decks I build. Maintenance is the key to longevity...spend more on the stain/sealer, price and warranty will tell you all you need to know.

Culpepper wood is untreated, correct?

The stuff looks nice, but I don't want something I've got to treat every year or two. I've got too much maintenance to do around here as it is, and I'm losing ground fast!

Is the Cox Wood Dura-Pine CA-C treated yellow pine (Kiln dried) the same as the YellaWood KDAT, or is it a better quality product? Anyone know?

Thanks.

[charlie horse]

Culpepper is treated. I used to use cox, but my supplier went to culpepper..if
you go with kiln dried don't let it sit or get wet.
Paynej you talk like an insurance adjuster.

[WoodieSC]

Without seeing your roof, staining, leak locations, etc. it's hard to be specific with an answer. But, if your roof is 21 years old, the water is probably draining below your shingles through a nail-pop or mechanical fracture in a shingle. It's then, likely, draining down the asphalt felt underlayment (if that's what's installed) to a fastener location and migrating through the felt and roof sheathing to the attic.

What's your roof slope? The lower the slope slower the water drains. Have you had any mastic installed over your shingles as a repair attempt? Is the leak near a roof vent (if so it could just be a deteriorated boot or bad flashing)? Do you have any roof penetrations upslope of the stain (chimney, roof vent, satellite dish, etc.)? If so, the cause could be deteriorated sealant or deficient flashing.

These are just thoughts. Hope they help.

payne, I need to double check it, but the roof slope is at least 8/12 if not more steep.

There are NO roof penetrations above the leak area/nail hole in the sheathing, and there have been no branches dropped on the roof that might cause a puncture.

Yes, there is the standard roof felt under the shingles, which is why I'm a bit surprised that even if there were a fracture in a shingle, the water ought to run along the top of the underlayment... no?

There is currently no mastic or 'Flex-Seal' on the top surface of the shingles (anywhere)... yet... but if I can get my butt up in that section safely there may well be some soon.

I have located the leak hole in the attic, so I know where to start on the surface. The trick is to find out where it's coming from above and/or to either side above that point and migrating to the hole. Almost any other location on the roof and I could probably get this done fairly easily, but it's in the least accessible location for me. It shouldn't be any issue for a roofer with 'Cougar shoes' and a taller ladder.

Culpepper is treated. I used to use cox, but my supplier went to culpepper..if
you go with kiln dried don't let it sit or get wet.
Paynej you talk like an insurance adjuster.

I see... good.

I assume you mean not to let the kiln dried wood sit or get wet BEFORE you install it. That makes sense and, yes, I would plan my tear-out to get it all done before I picked up the new lumber. Thanks for the tip!

[paynej]

There is currently no mastic or 'Flex-Seal' on the top surface of the shingles (anywhere)... yet... but if I can get my butt up in that section safely there may well be some soon.

Be careful spraying 'Flex-Seal' or applying any other roofing tar or temporary mastic repair. I know people put it on their roofs every day, but I have seen it cause more harm than good. If you already have a location where water is migrating below the shingles, the mastic will only make it worse by damming the water and not allowing it to drain properly below the shingles. With an 8/12 or better pitch you probably will not see much of a difference, but a lower sloped roof would likely see a noticeable difference. I hope you track it down. Good luck and be careful.

[WoodieSC]

Be careful spraying 'Flex-Seal' or applying any other roofing tar or temporary mastic repair. I know people put it on their roofs every day, but I have seen it cause more harm than good. If you already have a location where water is migrating below the shingles, the mastic will only make it worse by damming the water and not allowing it to drain properly below the shingles. With an 8/12 or better pitch you probably will not see much of a difference, but a lower sloped roof would likely see a noticeable difference. I hope you track it down. Good luck and be careful.

I hear what you're saying.

If it was on a slightly lower slope, and more accessible, I think I could locate and change out some shingles as I've got a bundle or two of spares stored away. I might just have to leave this home repair item for the pros, though, unless I can get real inventive in rigging up a safe way to do it.

Thanks for the tips and caution.

[Bad Habit]

Throw a rope over the roof and tie it off, use the rope to batman the roof from the ladder and as a back up while working( old couch cushion sticks well ).

If you decide to use the roof tar over the leaking area, apply it in an inverted V shape to help the water run off.


The deck- if you use wood- make sure it is ground contact treated, we are seeing rot in regular treated wood in only a few years if it is in contact in an exposed location.

If you use composite or 5/4 boards make sure your deck is framed on 16" centers, many decks are built on 24" centers as a cost saving measure.

Don't assume your joists are still good, many times they will split open on the top edge from the pressure of so many fasteners in line. You really will not know until you pull the decking. Plan for the expense of replacement up front and you will feel like you saved money if not necessary.

[WoodieSC]

Throw a rope over the roof and tie it off, use the rope to batman the roof from the ladder and as a back up while working( old couch cushion sticks well ).

If you decide to use the roof tar over the leaking area, apply it in an inverted V shape to help the water run off.


The deck- if you use wood- make sure it is ground contact treated, we are seeing rot in regular treated wood in only a few years if it is in contact in an exposed location.

If you use composite or 5/4 boards make sure your deck is framed on 16" centers, many decks are built on 24" centers as a cost saving measure.

Don't assume your joists are still good, many times they will split open on the top edge from the pressure of so many fasteners in line. You really will not know until you pull the decking. Plan for the expense of replacement up front and you will feel like you saved money if not necessary.

Some good suggestions.

I had already figured out the lifeline rope, along with how I can tie off a ladder section on the roof itself adjacent to the one leak I've found.

The issue I'm trying to figure out now is that while doing a more in-depth check of the attic interior I came across several places that in the recent past I thought were evidence of mildew caused by humidity and a lack of air flow, which I had been already thinking about how to resolve. But last night most of these areas appeared wet, which would seem to show that I've got some seepage in several areas. NO water spots appear on the ceilings below these areas.

What's strange about it is that these spots are in adjacent roof joists at or about the level where the roof hits the second floor room walls - in the front and rear of the house. It's almost too coincidental that they are all about on the same horizontal level front and back, so I need to crawl in to them and check closer before I decide what's going on.

I'm going to get some good pictures while they appear wet and forgo a deer hunt today since this is a bit more important for now. I hadn't planned for a roof replacement for another 5-7 years since I've got 30 year shingles and there's been no traffic or exterior damage to the areas in question. Beats the shit out of me...

Thanks.

Oh, I hear ya' on the deck joists. I'll check them closely when I pull some boards, but the deck has dropped in priority with this roof surprise. I think I'll buy my wife some snow shoes for Christmas so she doesn't have to worry about dropping through any new holes that might pop up.

[Bad Habit]

30 year shingles = 20 good years and 10 iffy years- the heat and sun puts a hurtin on them

[WoodieSC]

30 year shingles = 20 good years and 10 iffy years- the heat and sun puts a hurtin on them

That's what chaps my ass. If they have a 30 year guarantee, you should be able to get that 30 years without fighting things 10 years early.

I need to edit some pictures I took yesterday in the attic and outdoors this morning and will post a couple. These other areas that 'look' like seepage or condensation spots are just too coincidental in their locations, both front and rear. I'm going in to check the space over the sun room now to see if there's anything similar back there.

Fortunately, with the exception to that leak earlier this week, the only small spot(s) I've found in any ceilings are ones I already knew about and were due to a plugged vent pipe, and a clogged gutter. I just haven't re-painted those ceilings yet. Everything else (knocking on wood) is 'high and dry'.

[WoodieSC]

My fears were confirmed that the entire roof needs to be replaced. I'll be filing a claim with the original shingle manufacturer. The roofer I had out was a sharp young guy and also a certified contractor for that supplier. He said it was the 'worst 21 year old roof he'd seen' and that a claim was easily justified. The problem is that it won't be worth a bunch, but any buck is worthwhile nowadays.

Also ID'd some unusual condensation issues that shouldn't be there and that I didn't see for the first 19 years in this house, but have noted on occasion these past two years. Not sure yet how to solve them since nothing has really changed.

Thanks for the tips and info.