The "Flag"

[SCSwitchback]

Some interesting points of view from both sides...well those that have chosen to debate with reason and sensibility. I already know that regardless of what I say, the majority of you will disagree and so be it. Just know that this is just my point of view and not something I see as the end all, be all. I'm not entirely fond of the flag and mostly because of the sorts I see that have twisted it to be perceived as a symbol of hate.

My mother was born and raised in Luverne, Alabama. She's told me so many stories about how "things" were during the Jim Crow and civil rights era. How a 12 year old white kid could address her daddy by his first name and he had to address the kid as sir, and if he didn't, he would be viewed as not knowing his place. They all knew to expect when somebody got uppity; torches and flags.

She ran off with friends to join a civil rights protest when she was 16. She vividly remembers that the people that spit on her and threw rocks were also waving those flags. You can watch all the footage you want with the firehoses, police dogs, etc. but until you truly look into someone's eyes that has experienced these things, you will never understand. It was an ugly part of OUR history in this country and sometimes there has to be empathy and compromise to help heal. If this very day my mother my mother tried to take that flag down herself I would go down swinging to protect her. Not because of how I do or don't feel about the flag, but because of the pain I know she feels everytime she sees that flag. She's earned the right not to want it up.

Some people who want the flag to remain probably have good reasons, but I haven't walked in their shoes and may never understand. I can understand heritage and sacrifice under that flag...but I don't think there can ever be any turning back on what it implies. I'm sure there are Hindus and Buddhists out there that hate that the swatsika is seen as the ultimate symbol of hate...but it's too late to salvage it.

I'm already expecting that a few of you will refer back to what a certain group or minority does that isn't right and is racist, but does one wrong justify another? That's the problem with us sometimes. We love to judge people who think differently or act differently than we do. I appreciate getting older because now days I usually pity the ignorant (regardless of their race) and appreciate the good people out there.

My life will go on regardless of what happens with the flag. I will have not lost any sleep or have gotten all riled up by some "media guy" posing as a journalist whose only goal is to tell certain people what they already wanted to hear...even if he doesnt believe the BS that he's spewing.

Solid post Roddie. There's not a bone in my body that wants someone to be offended by that flag, and it angers me the shit your mother and people like her had to put up with. The problem is, its not people like your mother calling for it to come down. Its these damn wastes of oxygen like sharpton, jackson, obama, and trash like was shown above burning the american flag (notice some of them were white,not that it matters). These punks want shit done out of "white guilt" not because of the reasons you mention above. Its got to be their way, or they will continue to cry, whine, and play the victim. Once the flag is down, it will be monuments, then road names, etc, etc. As others on here have, I've had ancestors that shed blood defending certain values, some of which were very misguided, some very valid. I will not defend some of the things they fought for, but I will honor and respect them having the balls to fight for what they believed in. I see people mention a public figure from the 1800's and talk about how racist he was. You know what, EVERY white person was racist in the 17-1800's America. They didn't have a choice...thats how they were brought up. But they by God had the balls to fight for what they thought was right. That is something for everyone native to our state,every race, to be proud of. I"d like to think that spirit still exists in this state, regardless of the issue.

For the record, I'd be all for the flag coming down if it were to be replaced with one more historically appropriate such as the state secession flag. It would be the most appropriate anyway. Most on here don't have a clue what it looks like, as most spouting off on here don't know a thing about state/southern history.

Finally, anyone who says, "take the flag down, but also remove any african american memorials" are slap eat up with the dumbass. The two have absolutely nothing to do with each other. When I hear someone say that the first thing it tells me is that they relate the flag with race, and they further the argument for the race baiters.

[CUAngler]

South Carolina Defends Right To Fly Hardee's Flag From State Capitol

http://www.theonion.com/article/sout...s-flag-f-31881



South Carolina residents say the flag is a symbol of their shared cultural heritage.


NEWSApril 1, 2013
VOL 49 ISSUE 14 News

COLUMBIA, SC—Faced with mounting pressure from critics who say it sends the wrong message about the state, residents of South Carolina have mounted a vociferous defense of their right to fly the Hardee’s flag from the top of their capitol building, reports confirmed Thursday.

According to many South Carolinians, the flag, which prominently features a single smiling star and the phrase “Hardee’s Charbroiled Thickburgers,” signifies an important part of their cultural legacy, and many have expressed anger over demands that legislators remove it from public display.

“That flag represents a cherished tradition and the very spirit of our state,” said Charleston native Ruth Moore, 54, noting that she has regularly flown the flag on her own front lawn for more than 30 years. “Whether you like it or not, Hardee’s is a huge part of our history, and I’ll be damned if we’re going to let a bunch of outsiders come in here and tell us we’re not allowed to fly it anymore.”

“It’s not just a flag—it’s a way of life,” Moore continued. “It’s who we are.”

During a spirited rally at the State House early Thursday morning, an estimated 40,000 residents gathered to show their support for the flag, with many flying the fast food chain’s colors from the backs of pickup trucks or motorcycles. A few older South Carolinians could even be seen decked out in authentic uniforms once worn by actual Hardee’s servers.

Though the flag remains a polarizing issue among the nation as a whole, experts have said that in the Palmetto State—where it adorns bumper stickers, ball caps, and trinkets available in every truck stop—it remains an almost universally beloved symbol.

“I’ll salute that flag till the day I die,” said 47-year-old Jason Ramsey, who, like many South Carolina residents, has a large tattoo of the Hardee’s flag on his upper arm. “To take that away would dishonor the generations of my family who have worn the uniform, including my grandfather, who was only 16 when he first served at Hardee’s.”

“Maybe it’s a little hard for people from other places to understand, but down here we bleed red, white, and yellow,” Ramsey added.

South Carolina is currently the only state still flying the Hardee’s colors from the dome of its capitol, as Alabama, Kentucky, and Missouri all opted to remove Hardee’s flags from their own capitol buildings following significant public pressure to do so in the past five years. Even Georgia recently opted to move the giant Waffle House flag that had adorned the top of its capitol building for decades to a less prominent location on the front lawn of the State House.

Thus far, South Carolina has been reluctant to do the same, a move that has furthered angered critics who argue that the flag is a “national disgrace” and has no place at all on government property.

“I want to make one thing perfectly clear: The Hardee’s flag does not represent everyone who lives in this country,” said Daniel Pfenning, a professor of U.S. history at Johns Hopkins University. “It gives a bad name to all Americans, and it’s time for us to say once and for all that our nation disavows all the awful and truly disgusting things that flag stands for.”

Regardless of pressure from opposition groups, leaders in South Carolina have said they are adamant that the Hardee’s flag remain beside the Stars and Stripes in front of the State House. Many have stressed that it is not a question of conflicting loyalties, but of heritage.

“When I was growing up, my dad always flew the American flag with a Hardee’s flag right alongside it, and I do the same thing,” U.S. Rep. Joe Wilson (R-SC) said. “It’s part of my heritage, and I have to honor that. When I see those Hardee’s colors flapping in the wind, I know it’s a testament to the very freedom America stands for.”

Reached for comment, Gov. Nikki Haley said South Carolina has bigger issues facing it than a squabble over a flag, such as what to do about the broader cultural problem of the state’s deep-rooted, persistent, and firmly held racism.

[reeltight]

South Carolina Defends Right To Fly Hardee's Flag From State Capitol

http://www.theonion.com/article/sout...s-flag-f-31881



South Carolina residents say the flag is a symbol of their shared cultural heritage.


NEWSApril 1, 2013
VOL 49 ISSUE 14 News

COLUMBIA, SC—Faced with mounting pressure from critics who say it sends the wrong message about the state, residents of South Carolina have mounted a vociferous defense of their right to fly the Hardee’s flag from the top of their capitol building, reports confirmed Thursday.

According to many South Carolinians, the flag, which prominently features a single smiling star and the phrase “Hardee’s Charbroiled Thickburgers,” signifies an important part of their cultural legacy, and many have expressed anger over demands that legislators remove it from public display.

“That flag represents a cherished tradition and the very spirit of our state,” said Charleston native Ruth Moore, 54, noting that she has regularly flown the flag on her own front lawn for more than 30 years. “Whether you like it or not, Hardee’s is a huge part of our history, and I’ll be damned if we’re going to let a bunch of outsiders come in here and tell us we’re not allowed to fly it anymore.”

“It’s not just a flag—it’s a way of life,” Moore continued. “It’s who we are.”

During a spirited rally at the State House early Thursday morning, an estimated 40,000 residents gathered to show their support for the flag, with many flying the fast food chain’s colors from the backs of pickup trucks or motorcycles. A few older South Carolinians could even be seen decked out in authentic uniforms once worn by actual Hardee’s servers.

Though the flag remains a polarizing issue among the nation as a whole, experts have said that in the Palmetto State—where it adorns bumper stickers, ball caps, and trinkets available in every truck stop—it remains an almost universally beloved symbol.

“I’ll salute that flag till the day I die,” said 47-year-old Jason Ramsey, who, like many South Carolina residents, has a large tattoo of the Hardee’s flag on his upper arm. “To take that away would dishonor the generations of my family who have worn the uniform, including my grandfather, who was only 16 when he first served at Hardee’s.”

“Maybe it’s a little hard for people from other places to understand, but down here we bleed red, white, and yellow,” Ramsey added.

South Carolina is currently the only state still flying the Hardee’s colors from the dome of its capitol, as Alabama, Kentucky, and Missouri all opted to remove Hardee’s flags from their own capitol buildings following significant public pressure to do so in the past five years. Even Georgia recently opted to move the giant Waffle House flag that had adorned the top of its capitol building for decades to a less prominent location on the front lawn of the State House.

Thus far, South Carolina has been reluctant to do the same, a move that has furthered angered critics who argue that the flag is a “national disgrace” and has no place at all on government property.

“I want to make one thing perfectly clear: The Hardee’s flag does not represent everyone who lives in this country,” said Daniel Pfenning, a professor of U.S. history at Johns Hopkins University. “It gives a bad name to all Americans, and it’s time for us to say once and for all that our nation disavows all the awful and truly disgusting things that flag stands for.”

Regardless of pressure from opposition groups, leaders in South Carolina have said they are adamant that the Hardee’s flag remain beside the Stars and Stripes in front of the State House. Many have stressed that it is not a question of conflicting loyalties, but of heritage.

“When I was growing up, my dad always flew the American flag with a Hardee’s flag right alongside it, and I do the same thing,” U.S. Rep. Joe Wilson (R-SC) said. “It’s part of my heritage, and I have to honor that. When I see those Hardee’s colors flapping in the wind, I know it’s a testament to the very freedom America stands for.”

Reached for comment, Gov. Nikki Haley said South Carolina has bigger issues facing it than a squabble over a flag, such as what to do about the broader cultural problem of the state’s deep-rooted, persistent, and firmly held racism.

If Hardee's would remeber their heritage they would still have some kick ass fried chicken.

[Black Water]

At least someone in the Senate has some backbone............. http://www.goupstate.com/article/201...CLES/150629916

Kudos to Sen. Bright for understanding the core issue.

[Hogg]

I honestly do not understand how what is going on at the Capitol is anything akin to a "Stalinist purge." Using that metaphor belies his ignorance of what Stalin did.

Before y'all jump out of your skins, I think I understand what he meant to say. Now is not the time to let "outside influences" dictate what goes on in SC.

[Black Water]

Found this lil gem a lil while ago.....
http://charleston.craigslist.org/wan/5087075420.html


These race baiters are taking cheap shots and extorting these 9 South Carolinians memories to do what ever it takes to remove the Flag...... Its utterly disgusting......

[CUAngler]

The pro flaggers probably don't want Lee Bright as their beacon of hope.

[Duck Tape]

The compromise by the conference committee passed the house and senate.

[SOUTHERN WOODS]

The compromise by the conference committee passed the house and senate.

So will this be put to a vote by the people or have the politician's already decided what is best for us?

[santee11]

Some interesting points of view from both sides...well those that have chosen to debate with reason and sensibility. I already know that regardless of what I say, the majority of you will disagree and so be it. Just know that this is just my point of view and not something I see as the end all, be all. I'm not entirely fond of the flag and mostly because of the sorts I see that have twisted it to be perceived as a symbol of hate.

My mother was born and raised in Luverne, Alabama. She's told me so many stories about how "things" were during the Jim Crow and civil rights era. How a 12 year old white kid could address her daddy by his first name and he had to address the kid as sir, and if he didn't, he would be viewed as not knowing his place. They all knew to expect when somebody got uppity; torches and flags.

She ran off with friends to join a civil rights protest when she was 16. She vividly remembers that the people that spit on her and threw rocks were also waving those flags. You can watch all the footage you want with the firehoses, police dogs, etc. but until you truly look into someone's eyes that has experienced these things, you will never understand. It was an ugly part of OUR history in this country and sometimes there has to be empathy and compromise to help heal. If this very day my mother my mother tried to take that flag down herself I would go down swinging to protect her. Not because of how I do or don't feel about the flag, but because of the pain I know she feels everytime she sees that flag. She's earned the right not to want it up.

Some people who want the flag to remain probably have good reasons, but I haven't walked in their shoes and may never understand. I can understand heritage and sacrifice under that flag...but I don't think there can ever be any turning back on what it implies. I'm sure there are Hindus and Buddhists out there that hate that the swatsika is seen as the ultimate symbol of hate...but it's too late to salvage it.

I'm already expecting that a few of you will refer back to what a certain group or minority does that isn't right and is racist, but does one wrong justify another? That's the problem with us sometimes. We love to judge people who think differently or act differently than we do. I appreciate getting older because now days I usually pity the ignorant (regardless of their race) and appreciate the good people out there.

My life will go on regardless of what happens with the flag. I will have not lost any sleep or have gotten all riled up by some "media guy" posing as a journalist whose only goal is to tell certain people what they already wanted to hear...even if he doesnt believe the BS that he's spewing.

Well said, what that flag means to your mom and what it means to me is totally different, but it's not worth fighting over. I totally understand why she feels that way about it. That is why I say take it down. It's a flag of mans government of witch none will be left standing in the end. The racist rednecks have totally ruined that flag and there is no fixing it. I don't want fellow South Carolinians that have been living in sc for 100s of years offended because of a flag.

Now if you are a Yankee and that flag offends you that's great, Mission accomplished, and you can go vist hell.

[SOUTHERN WOODS]

Well said, what that flag means to your mom and what it means to me is totally different, but it's not worth fighting over. I totally understand why she feels that way about it. That is why I say take it down. It's a flag of mans government of witch none will be left standing in the end. The racist rednecks have totally ruined that flag and there is no fixing it. I don't want fellow South Carolinians that have been living in sc for 100s of years offended because of a flag.

Now if you are a Yankee and that flag offends you that's great, Mission accomplished, and you can go vist hell.

What about the stuff that offends me? Black on white crime offends me just as bad as all crime but I don't bitch about it. If they have lived in SC for hundreds of years why just now is it offending them more so than ever? 2 weeks ago nobody gave a shit about the Confederate flag, why now? Because a State senator was murdered? Is he any more important than a regular citizen and that is the reason why the rest of the politician's are wanting the flag down? If so then they aren't representing the people but themselves. Put it to a vote.

[reeltight]

Well said, what that flag means to your mom and what it means to me is totally different, but it's not worth fighting over. I totally understand why she feels that way about it. That is why I say take it down. It's a flag of mans government of witch none will be left standing in the end. The racist rednecks have totally ruined that flag and there is no fixing it. I don't want fellow South Carolinians that have been living in sc for 100s of years offended because of a flag.

Now if you are a Yankee and that flag offends you that's great, Mission accomplished, and you can go vist hell.

Did you hit your head? Are you confused? Sorry the rednecks ruined the flag? Sorry it offends black people. It should offend yankee's and they can go to hell? Wow! Talk about the cream of the crop. Man you take the cake. And by the way, there are plenty of black racist out there as well.

[led0321]

Some interesting points of view from both sides...well those that have chosen to debate with reason and sensibility. I already know that regardless of what I say, the majority of you will disagree and so be it. Just know that this is just my point of view and not something I see as the end all, be all. I'm not entirely fond of the flag and mostly because of the sorts I see that have twisted it to be perceived as a symbol of hate.

My mother was born and raised in Luverne, Alabama. She's told me so many stories about how "things" were during the Jim Crow and civil rights era. How a 12 year old white kid could address her daddy by his first name and he had to address the kid as sir, and if he didn't, he would be viewed as not knowing his place. They all knew to expect when somebody got uppity; torches and flags.

She ran off with friends to join a civil rights protest when she was 16. She vividly remembers that the people that spit on her and threw rocks were also waving those flags. You can watch all the footage you want with the firehoses, police dogs, etc. but until you truly look into someone's eyes that has experienced these things, you will never understand. It was an ugly part of OUR history in this country and sometimes there has to be empathy and compromise to help heal. If this very day my mother my mother tried to take that flag down herself I would go down swinging to protect her. Not because of how I do or don't feel about the flag, but because of the pain I know she feels everytime she sees that flag. She's earned the right not to want it up.

Some people who want the flag to remain probably have good reasons, but I haven't walked in their shoes and may never understand. I can understand heritage and sacrifice under that flag...but I don't think there can ever be any turning back on what it implies. I'm sure there are Hindus and Buddhists out there that hate that the swatsika is seen as the ultimate symbol of hate...but it's too late to salvage it.

I'm already expecting that a few of you will refer back to what a certain group or minority does that isn't right and is racist, but does one wrong justify another? That's the problem with us sometimes. We love to judge people who think differently or act differently than we do. I appreciate getting older because now days I usually pity the ignorant (regardless of their race) and appreciate the good people out there.

My life will go on regardless of what happens with the flag. I will have not lost any sleep or have gotten all riled up by some "media guy" posing as a journalist whose only goal is to tell certain people what they already wanted to hear...even if he doesnt believe the BS that he's spewing.

Great post. I never understood the pain that flag represents until I joined the military and you meet folks like yourself.
I'm glad Rand Paul called for it to come down today.

[reeltight]

The compromise by the conference committee passed the house and senate.

Seriously...this emergency session was called to discuss the budget. Did you talk about it at all? What was the vote in the senate?

[SOUTHERN WOODS]

Great post. I never understood the pain that flag represents until I joined the military and you meet folks like yourself.
I'm glad Rand Paul called for it to come down today.

Rand Paul should have no say in it. Neither should Obama or anyone else that isn't a citizen of this state. All the politician's are doing is trying to gain votes in the next election.

Put it to a vote for the people of SC.

[led0321]

Rand Paul should have no say in it. Neither should Obama or anyone else that isn't a citizen of this state. All the politician's are doing is trying to gain votes in the next election.

Put it to a vote for the people of SC.

I agree with you but it will be an issue in the Republican primary if they don't address it now.

[SOUTHERN WOODS]

I agree with you but it will be an issue in the Republican primary if they don't address it now.

And that is one of the main reasons why it is being pushed to be taken down.

[led0321]

And that is one of the main reasons why it is being pushed to be taken down.

I'm 100% convinced that is why the governor called for its removal.

[PBiz]

I agree with you but it will be an issue in the Republican primary if they don't address it now.

More division than already exists..

[phfelkel]

Anyone following this Malik Shabazz racist press conference in Charleston. Be prepared for a lot more of this garbage.