One to keep an eye on

[Palmetto Duck]

Is “hunting” ducks different than “hunting” deer? If so how? They don’t write you a ticket for sitting in the hole all night and holding it do they? Nope, even with a loaded gun, even with a light, even if there are ducks roosted nearby. They write you a ticket for what with ducks? SHOOTING early or late!! The rules as posted here earlier are written to make it easier to make a case. PERIOD. Realistically, you should be able to shine a deer and hang your rifle out the window and look through the scope at his ass if you want to. Until you pull the trigger you haven’t done shit that’s illegal as far as killing deer at an improper time. Certainly if I walk in the Turkey woods in the dark with my loaded shotgun I am in the act of Turkey hunting as in getting to my spot to do so. Never hear of anyone getting a ticket for that. Even if you walk under them and blow them out of a tree and a warden sees that, you’re not getting a ticket if you haven’t shot. Why is it different for deer?

[Duck Tape]

1. The Legal Definition
In South Carolina (and most states), the legal definition of "hunting" is intentionally broad. It typically includes:

Searching and Scouting: Looking for tracks, signs, or bedding areas.

Pursuing or Luring: Using calls, scents, or decoys to attract an animal.

Stalking: Quietly moving through the woods to get into position.

If you are in the woods with a weapon and the intent to harvest an animal, you are legally hunting. This is why you still need a license and must follow "legal light" hours even if you are just sitting in a stand watching the sunrise.

2. The Mental and Tactical Game
The vast majority of hunting is information gathering. To be successful, a hunter must:

Study the Ecosystem: Understand wind direction, thermal shifts, and how weather patterns affect deer movement.

Practice Stealth: Masking human scent and remaining motionless for hours is an active physical and mental challenge.

The "Chess Match": You are competing against the evolved survival instincts of a wild animal. Even if the deer "wins" that day by not showing up, the game was still played.

3. The Role of Observation
Many hunters consider a day successful if they see a "young buck" and choose not to shoot it to let it grow for another year. This is called Selective Harvest.

Taking no action is often a deliberate conservation choice. Watching the deer interact, feed, and move provides data that helps the hunter make better decisions in the future.

4. The Biological Connection
For many, hunting is about re-entering the food chain as a participant rather than a spectator.

Presence over Pillage: Being present in the woods at dawn or dusk allows you to witness cycles of nature most people never see.

The Experience: The "hunt" describes the journey. The "kill" is merely the conclusion—and it's a conclusion that only happens in a small percentage of outings.

Essentially, "shooting" is a mechanical act that takes a split second, whereas "hunting" is a craft that takes a lifetime to learn.

[Duck Tape]

Are you not hunting if:

You sit in an elevated stand with a rifle and bullets?

Pulling up to a landing in your boat with duck decoys, a gun with #4 shot?

Sitting in a cut corn field in September with a shotgun loaded with #8s, and you have not shot because it is early and they have not started flying?

Driving around at night in your truck turning it into the fields is shining, if you have a loaded gun within reach it is night hunting with the aid of a light.

If you have only have a loaded rifle you are still night hunting using a light.

If you have loaded rifle and are stopping to look at deer at night in fields you do not have permission to hunt using binocs on a full moon you will be considered hunting.

All of these situations are hunting, even if you never shoot.

[cajunwannabe]

If there is anything I've garnished from this career making case it is to adamantly request the LEO (especially a SCDNR officer) to leave his / her body camera on at all times during EVERY stop. (and I should have been guilty of "night hunting" more times than I can count and IF I was going to night hunt, only keep the .22 magnum loaded in the front seat because that's okay, the rest is merely a "shining" charge)

[porkchop 13]

Well ducktape since you are part of writing laws how about yall change it to if you fire a shot before or after legal shooting hours you are considered night hunting. Otherwise you are carrying a loaded rifle in the event you have close encounter with hog, rabid coon,coyote,etc.... and use it for protection.

Also if you didn't shoot you are scouting and carrying this loaded firearm for protection should you need it.

So tracking a wounded deer after legal shooting hours you can be charged with night hunting BECAUSE you are using artificial light and you have a loaded gun

You and these laws yall have written are a effing joke

[jwmetz]

It really doesnt matter how much he defends the position. If a prosecutor cannot make a case, DNR did it wrong. A good lawyer made them fold their cards.

[Duck Tape]

It takes a complete reading of a section to incorporate the full intent. Our intent with coyote and hog legislation was to improve the hunters ability to kill the non-native predators and destructive hogs. To do so we allowed shooting at night. Depredation permits for farmers is another risky proposition.

We added these laws understanding the lines between shooting and hunting would be blurred. Our intent was to allow shooting of varmints while maintaining protection for deer. I don't think we limited your constitutional right to carry arms. You have the constitutional right to carry a weapon in a Minnesota riot but it is not a good idea. No one knows your intent.

I believe this case was thrown out because of what the officers did as opposed to the merits of the case. My fear is it will embolden you to push the limits of viewing versus hunting of deer at night. My goal writing 3925 posts on this topic is to make you think about your liberty and balance that with protection of a species we all care about. I do not want to see any of us in trouble.

[JABIII]

Meanwhile, my town's government has killed 90% of the deer on our island. At night...

[Highstrung]

And we have guys on here that were excited about tags and telechecks. That gets me irritated.

[Roddie]

Half the country wants to be communists. The other half is lead by fascist wannabees. The rest of us just want to be free Americans. They will eventually grind us into dust under their boot heels...

Quote of the year

[Roddie]

Palmetto Duck is spot on with his rope a dope analogy. Y’all are ice skating uphill trying to use logic with him.

[Five Oh]

Thoughts of a cop and a night hunter. One of my favorite quotes as a cop is from Chief Strom . “Make sure a person is guilty before you affect his reputation, his freedom or his pocketbook. Make sure that you always assure yourself that you are the fairest juror a suspect will ever have. Remember, you do not make the facts, you discover and report them.”
I've always tried to respect that, if I think there is a reasonable doubt at the time of arrest, then I don't need to make it. I hammer that into all of my guys as well. I think this case is a perfect example of what he was trying to prevent.

As a night hunter: its pretty easy to pass a big buck at night. I see them on a weekly basis early fall, there's no sport in shooting one with a thermal or nv. After shooting depredation deer all summer its even less tempting. Deer are incredibly stupid at night, there's no sport or accomplishment to killing one that way. I run with a group of about 10 night hunters, and there isn't a single one that I'd be worried about shooting a deer unlawfully. Not to mention, the second that rumor ever starts I'm going to lose access to almost every tract I have. There's just no reason.

As far as the night hunting regulations, they need to be fixed. Why must I register a tract to night hunt? What's next, registering dove fields? Gotta make sure they aren't baited, right? What if one land owner has 16 different tracts, all touching each other? Do I have to do each one ? Or just pick the biggest? While I understand the thought process for a hunter who is sitting one stand over a feeder for hogs, I don't for a coyote hunter. Or for that matter, a hunter who is hitting numerous tracts in one night for pigs either. While I abide by it, I'm not a fan of informing the game warden of everything I do at night, same reason I don't wave down DNR on the water and ask for a safety check. While I'm complaining, we should be allowed to call in and shoot animals if we can legally day hunt them or trap them during the same time of year. I could clean up on coons at night with an e caller.

As far as scanning fields and loaded guns. I load my rifle before I leave the house at night and unload it before it goes in the safe when I get home. I'm trying to get into my stands as quietly as possible and chambering a round all loud isn't the first sound i want to play. You'd be amazed at what a coyote or pig will tolerate in reference to vehicle noise but will booger the second something strange is heard. I also use a handheld thermal to scan fields and pastures that I don't have access to yet. I don't want to waste time knocking on a door or chasing down a land owner if there's never coyotes mousing around at night. Hopefully that isn't changed to make it illegal. Unless a game warden was close enough to see the window roll down and thermal held up to someone's eye they'd never know it happened anyways. I think it would just open the door for charging people for having one in the vehicle.

[trkykilr]

Post #293 and I still haven’t found one valid reason for them turning off their body cameras, trying to turn off their body cameras, or texting/talking on personal cell phones. I don’t know what their code of conduct is or supposed to be, but those actions should be fireable offenses.

[ecu1984]

Post #293 and I still haven’t found one valid reason for them turning off their body cameras, trying to turn off their body cameras, or texting/talking on personal cell phones. I don’t know what their code of conduct is or supposed to be, but those actions should be fireable offenses.

What I been saying
DT - what's the law on cops doing shady shit like this? Why are they not terminated
Are you inquirying on this? They are dirty and not the standard that I want "protecting and serving? me

[Duck Tape]

Good post Five Oh.

I am told you can lump in all the parcels a person owns and get it cleared. The purpose of the reporting is so DNR does not interrupt your legal activities if they know where you plan to scout.

How would DNR know your intentions if you are randomly scouting with infrared on tracts you do not have permission to shoot and you are found with an accessible loaded weapon? Your activity from a vehicle could easily be considered suspicious.

You seem almost semi-professional. I imagine the wardens know you and your vehicle. Have you ever encountered someone at night you were suspicious of?

I am willing to listen to ideas and work on improvement of the law. Thanks for a respectful post.

[ecu1984]

Speaking of 'intent"
What is the perception of "intent" when LEO cameras and audio are selectively used
and switching to personal unmonitored devices....................leading up to and during a stop?

[trkykilr]

Speaking of 'intent"
What is the perception of "intent" when LEO cameras and audio are selectively used
and switching to personal unmonitored devices....................leading up to and during a stop?

The two LEO’s are the only ones whose intent is clear.

[centurian]

What I been saying
DT - what's the law on cops doing shady shit like this? Why are they not terminated
Are you inquirying on this? They are dirty and not the standard that I want "protecting and serving? me

Won’t be fired because they can’t easily replace them for what it’s worth. Maybe doing what they were told to do as evidenced by their attorney’s response. All this shit starts at the top. Poor leadership poor performance of LEO.

[porkchop 13]

. The purpose of the reporting is so DNR does not interrupt your legal activities if they know where you plan to scout. BUT they don't mind driving through a legal organized hunt putting their safety at risk.

Still not buying into your logic

[Five Oh]

The registering multiple tracts as one is practice but not law. The majority of the time I encounter DNR at night they don't even bother asking about if the property is registered. They stay by the trucks til we're done calling the stand and ask how we've been doing when we get back. I'm sure when its several guys walking back with thermal rifles on tripods, helmets with nv, and carrying e calls if not dragging coyotes then its pretty easy to guess that we aren't hunting deer. During the summer they may ask how many tags we have left and how the browsing is. My issue is that I shouldn't have to notify them prior if i'm not breaking the law. It's their job to catch me if I am. And how it stands I can call one field and shoot across an imaginary line and get charged for not registering the same crop field 4x because its 4 different parcels. While most game wardens understand the intent of the law, the number of young ones just looking to make a charge is increasing quickly. It seems like fewer and fewer game wardens are actual sportsmen anymore. We need more Rhetts.
I have no problem with them stopping and seeing what I'm doing while night hunting, but the law shouldn't be written in a way that allows them to charge just about anyone. The real reason why property is registered is so that when a call comes in about shots fired at night they can looks for a near by registered property, say that its legal hog or coyote hunters, and roll over and go back to bed.

As far as the muting of the BWC, the assumption by the public/jury is always going to be the worst. I'll be using this thread, where a bunch of generally conservative, right leaning citizens took such offense to a muted body cam to teach my folks why it should never happen. Nothing I can say while muted will be as bad as what may be imagined.
The use of a personal cell phone to further an investigation is just silly. It'll stop when one of them gets that phone rule 5'ed and the defense gets to look at every part of your browser history. I have to believe that DNR issues phones to everyone?