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Thread: Wee Tee Clear Cuts

  1. #21
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    As usual, the paper only provides part of the story. The real story, in my humble opinion, is that a state agency is managing a very unique piece of property that belongs to the tax-paying citizens of this state, simply to provide a short-term solution to their agency’s budget woes. Rather than managing the land with a long-term, scientific view, they have chosen to try and maximize the short-term revenue in order to avoid tightening their own belts. In other words, state salaries are put ahead of the obligation to correctly manage the public’s land and resources. The Forestry Commission argues that the forest must pay for itself – well, the forest could pay for itself with a lot less timber revenue, but can’t be expected to pay for the budget of an entire agency. The 200 acre rectangular clearcuts and the guts and drains clogged with logging debris just add insult to injury.

    Since 2007 a little over 1,100 acres of the Wee Tee swamp have been clearcut. Given that the property was underwater for a significant amount of this time, you see where things are headed. The Forestry Commission’s written management plan does not address the impact of the Santee Cooper controlled flooding cycle, nor have they done any inventory of the threatened and endangered species that inhabit the forest. This is not virgin timber by any stretch of the imagination and the forest clearly shows the impact of prior management and human occupation, but nonetheless remains one of the largest contiguous bottomland hardwood forests in the Santee basin.

  2. #22
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    The real story, in my humble opinion
    Again, I ask, is clear cutting the best option for managing that piece of property? That is the issue unless I am having reading comprehension problems.

    If privately held, would the owners want it to at least sustain itself or dare they make a profit from it? If logging were stopped completely, the management costs of the property fall back on the tax payers, would you support it?
    "Rivers and the inhabitants of the watery elements are for wise men to contemplate and for fools to pass by without consideration" -Izaak Walton

  3. #23
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    when our hunting club(WEETEE) was sold we were assured that timber would never be cut off of it as it would be put in state forest and turned into a WMA.Lying motherfuckers!
    IF IT FLIES-IT DIES

  4. #24
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    Thats where I shot my first SC mallards as a teen. I hate to see it go to shit all for a dollar.
    IF IT FLIES-IT DIES

  5. #25
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    HCF, how many years were you in the club before it was sold? Do you ever remember any logging operation taking place other than the small blocks of planted pines in the upland areas?
    Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
    H. L. Mencken

  6. #26
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    I did my management plan on the upper portion of wee tee, and from what I remember the that portion alone barely broke even over a 25yr period and I only called for one small clear cut that was immediately re-planted and then able to be cut again within the span of the management plan (25yrs). So I can kind of understand why they are thinking this way, however I can only imagine the cost of having a logging crew in there to work and I'd be willing to bet that its not as profitable as the SCFC would lead you to believe...
    Conservation means the wise use of the earth and its resources for the lasting good of men. -Gifford Pinchot

    The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it. -Thomas Jefferson


    The very existence of flame-throwers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.

  7. #27
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    Looking at this from another POV,i do find it interesting to note that neither the Audobon Society or The Nature Conservancy rule out clearcuts if they are the best way to achieve long term positive goals. I remember GP did a nearly 2000 acre clear cut in Hell Hole Swamp in about 1998 or 99 in reponse to Hugo. They wanted more age class diversity in their holdings so that if another storm hit, they wouldn't have all old timber destroyed and be looking at a huge mess for a hundred years. When you are talking about owning land " forever", then a couple of generations is not a long time to achieve your goals.
    The problem is, most folks ( including Smith and Taylor) want woods to look a certain way in their lifetime. It is going to take a couple of generations to restore Wee Tee to the way it was before it was high graded. As for the overcups, Harvey Belser managed many of the states finest plantations before he worked for the state, and only he or someone as qualified can say that their loss will be detrimental beyond repair. Maybe replaced with an even better mast producer.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bohica View Post
    Looking at this from another POV,i do find it interesting to note that neither the Audobon Society or The Nature Conservancy rule out clearcuts if they are the best way to achieve long term positive goals. I remember GP did a nearly 2000 acre clear cut in Hell Hole Swamp in about 1998 or 99 in reponse to Hugo. They wanted more age class diversity in their holdings so that if another storm hit, they wouldn't have all old timber destroyed and be looking at a huge mess for a hundred years. When you are talking about owning land " forever", then a couple of generations is not a long time to achieve your goals.
    The problem is, most folks ( including Smith and Taylor) want woods to look a certain way in their lifetime. It is going to take a couple of generations to restore Wee Tee to the way it was before it was high graded. As for the overcups, Harvey Belser managed many of the states finest plantations before he worked for the state, and only he or someone as qualified can say that their loss will be detrimental beyond repair. Maybe replaced with an even better mast producer.
    Thank you for the post.
    "Rivers and the inhabitants of the watery elements are for wise men to contemplate and for fools to pass by without consideration" -Izaak Walton

  9. #29
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    I knew some of the folks who were instumental in aquiring this special piece of the lower Santee.I will assure you any more clear cutting was not in thier vision.Past WeeTee lake I think it is foot trafic only.Open only 2 days a week--They shoulnt need much money???

  10. #30
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    State and National Forest are managed, not preserved.
    I swamp that has been high-graded for years will be eat the hell up with maple, cottonwood, and other worthless trees!
    You can't please all the people all the time....that being said, there are many instances where a clearcut would be the most viable option for restoration and it sounds like this place needs it.
    Clearcutting the whole place, well I would need more info to pass judgement on the situation which leads me to the fact that I am sure there is more light to be shed.
    Bottomland clearcuts feed game, shelter game, and provide needs that an open forest do not....they grow back and hopefully healthier than before.
    I think there is much to learn on the subject of the Wee Tee Forest......
    \"I never saw a wild thing feel sorry for itself. A small bird will drop dead frozen from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.\" <br />D.H. LAWRENCE

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calibogue View Post
    I think there is much to learn on the subject of the Wee Tee Forest......
    As with most things I read in the P&C these days. People these days seem to have forgotten how to look down the road...
    cut\'em

  12. #32
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    I'm against wholesale clearcutting for the most part. Take out all the damn pine trees and other shit you want, but leave the oak trees.

    JAB I agree with you in part. Personally, I've seen more land fucked up by individuals than any the state or feds held. But that is just my experience.
    RIP Kelsey "Bigdawg" Cromer
    12-26-98 12-1-13

    If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever.

    Missing you my great friend.


  13. #33
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    i have hunted wee tee and i have cruised timber on wee tee, cruised about a lil over 500 acres out there and some places needs to be clear cut bc its to thick and the trees want grow worth a shit and there is some places out there that need to be left along but clear cut itsn't a bad thing for out there it gives the state revenue and it sets back sucession which is a great thing for wildlife it also creates edge which is a great thing for wildlife.
    Hancock 70 Yamaha

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quackhead22 View Post
    I did my management plan on the upper portion of wee tee, and from what I remember the that portion alone barely broke even over a 25yr period and I only called for one small clear cut that was immediately re-planted and then able to be cut again within the span of the management plan (25yrs). So I can kind of understand why they are thinking this way, however I can only imagine the cost of having a logging crew in there to work and I'd be willing to bet that its not as profitable as the SCFC would lead you to believe...
    i also done the same plan.
    Hancock 70 Yamaha

  15. #35
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    As we have finally made the circle, there is no "one management fits all tracts" model. I have never laid eyes on WeeTee and really shouldn't comment on what should or shouldn't be done there. As much as I hate a clearcut, I have killed a lot of game, including big ducks, in them. I do trust Ellison Smith to know what a tract's best potential is, however...

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by JABIII View Post
    As we have finally made the circle, there is no "one management fits all tracts" model. I have never laid eyes on WeeTee and really shouldn't comment on what should or shouldn't be done there. As much as I hate a clearcut, I have killed a lot of game, including big ducks, in them. I do trust Ellison Smith to know what a tract's best potential is, however...
    x2.
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  17. #37
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    Maybe a field trip of the concerned people[which seems to be many]hosted by forestry officials would clear the air some.Overcup Oak is far from a trash tree.I have spent some time in this sight and flown the the entire lower Santee.Just once can clear cutting be put on the back burner.This area has enough edge habitat to last into the next 2 centurys.It was once one of the few places the Ivory-Billed was ever seen in SC.It was clear cut[1940s] End of story.I understand what Calibogue says about this area not being a preserve.However there are some tracts that are special and should be left to manage themselves.Let the ole Weetee have some rest.

  18. #38
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    I've cut a lot of wood around Wee Tee on the river. I can only assume it's a shovel logging operation. If you've never seen one you need to. Ever seen what leaving a tree here and there will be like after a job like that is completed?

    Either cut the entire tract or leave it.

  19. #39
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    Our firm surveyed that tract for the owner before the state acquired the land. There are some amazing trees throughout the property along with a Indian mound. We spent about three months working on the boundary, was a job of a lifetime for a foothills surveyor. The original survey was performed in the '30s. Took that fella 11 months and he surveyed a total of 19,000 acres. There are many traces of the original tram lines from the 40's timber harvest. Some places there are cypress stumps standing a good 10-12 feet above the forest floor. Truly a special place.
    Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
    H. L. Mencken

  20. #40
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    I'm a consulting forester and Clearcutting is the ONLY "Silvacultural" forestry tool/method to restore bottomland hardwood stands to be what they were 100's of years ago. Even though my family is supported by timber $$ I do agree that a clearcut looks like shit but they do play a vital role in re-establishing certain old growth hardwood species......like it or not.
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