One man's view

[jwilliams]

I would not get alarmed if duck numbers (not du counts, but harvest #'s) were down for a year....We are in year 5 of declining harvest numbers....Not just here, but look in Mississippi/ark. How bout talk to the hunters that go there on a regular basis.
What you also have to remember is....Harvest #'s include TAMIES a lot of times which skew the results in a big way. Nother complaint about the pigeon plant ducks.

So...take the tamies out of already declining numbers and you see.......Things aren't so good for duck hunter (EXCEPT FOR TRIGGER AND HAMMERS and CALI COOL [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img] )

[Nab]

trigger - you are really a dumb ass - you believe what you read - not what the vast majority is actually encountering - a decrease in duck numbers almost nation wide.
Where are all of the these ducks you and your "pros" say exist? Sure they are some pockets of good duck numbers and hunting.
When all agree duck numbers are down why do we reduce harvest - shorter seasons and lower limits? If it works then then we should be doing it now because your pro's say the habitat is not at it's' carrying level.
Alot of your pro's' will not admit they've screwed up - they will not go against the politician that pay their bills - why do we have the longest seasons and highest limits than any other period in modern times - are you saying we've got more ducks than 60 yrs ago? Even the pros admit to ducks being below their self imposed longterm goals and we still have these liberal seasons? Does that really make sense to your little feable mind?
Nobody - the FWS, DU, etc, anybody who makes money from things being good is gonna want to admit to things not being good - is the FWS gonna hurt the local economies by saying anything bad? Is DU gonna piss off their big sponsors by saying anything is bad? Why don't we have a fall index anymore? because it pissed off the hunters - not because it wasn't a good tool to track trends.
You go ahead and hide in your little world and go on thinking things are hunky dory - keep believing how good things are and you'll be shooting tamies real soon - hell, you probably are now.
Now am I waiting on the weather to bring the ducks back - nope - if we had ducks they would be here anyways - weather plays a big part but not near as big as it has been played up to be in the last 15yrs - all the weather is is a good excuse for their not being ducks here like they should be if things were as good as the pro's would like us to believe.
Hell, as bad as it seems, this bird flu scare might end up helping the ducks by cutting back hunting or closing the seasons.
When people once again start doing what is right for the ducks and stop worrying about the hunters and money things might get better - until a changes occurs keep hiding your head up a pros butt and telling yourself things are great - hell, it's works for everybody else except the ducks.

[JABIII]

[JJ McGuire]

The "Pro's” are correct and hunting is compensatory, but only up to a point… then it is additive. The problem is the “Pro’s” don’t know where that point is that it changes.

A few years back Maryland closed their goose season for several years due to the degradation of the Atlantic Population, and the birds came back. The season was reopened and over time bag limits have increased.

The entire Atlantic Flyway, not just a state, needs to take similar action for ducks. Just try two seasons of 45/4 for all states in the flyway and see what happens to the duck numbers. I’ll go out on a limb and say there will be an increase in the nesting pairs, nesting success, birds in the fall flight, and the harvest numbers will stop declining.

[DUCK MASTER]

i think that the limits in canada and some of the northern states need to be lowered. if i am not mistaken it is 8 mallards a piece in canada. all they are doing is killing first year birds that have no color at all. i know it is early in the year during their season, but i have watched hunting shows where all the drakes had no color except one or two. there is a buch of factors that are bringing the population down (predators, droughts, limits, etc., etc.) i have been hunting for about 12 years now, and every year i see less and less ducks at the lake. when i first started hunting i would here widgeon every morming flying overhead before it was light. i haven't heard a widgeon do that in the past 5 years or maybe more. hell we dont even have coots like we used to. we have let our lake absolutely bottom out, and it is going to take alot to get it back to where it was when i first started hunting.

[BigBrother]

Originally posted by Nab:
Hell, as bad as it seems, this bird flu scare might end up helping the ducks by cutting back hunting or closing the seasons.
When people once again start doing what is right for the ducks and stop worrying about the hunters

<font size="-1" face="verdana,arial,helv">I am not on the same level as most who argue about why the ducks arent here, but my own honest opinion is that the best thing to benefit the ducks would be to either close the season for a year and allow ducks to revisit their historic wintering grounds and imprint or at the very least offer a "lottery" style permit to reduce the pressure on them and preventing from "imprinting" on said historic wintering grounds.

Nab's quote hit it on the head as far as I am concerned.

[JABIII]

I will have to say that is about the stupidest thing that I have ever read on here.

Those images of dead ducks, geese, and swans in Asia, Russia, and now W.Europe are all I need to see.

How the hell do you think hoping that waterfowl contracting a deadly disease is going to HELP waterfowl populations?? Damn Nab. Even for you that is a new low.

I think that someone should read that out at the next board meeting. [img]graemlins/busted.gif[/img]

[BigBrother]

Not saying the disease itself will help, quite the contrary. It could potentially decimate the populations.

My point is that the ever increasing hunting pressure on the ducks prevent them from coming further south...into our state. Reduce the pressure and we will see more quality hunts.

[JABIII]

If they closed the season in SC, ducks in the North would get an email and fly on down here bypassing the spot they had planned on wintering in??

[BigBrother]

Nothing is an instant fix. I advocate more of a lottery approach. We still get to hunt, just less. The hunts would be more productive as the ducks arent boat shy, decoy shy, call shy...and will visit waters that are public...instead of jumping from one impoundment to another.

If I were shot at on the same intersection day after day, year after year...I would find another route to where I was going, or just stop going there altogether...get what I need somewhere else.

I am sure you have had this discussion with others before...my idea cant be original...but it seems rather simple to think that if we reduce the pressure, the SC imprinted ducks would come back and bring their offspring. Otherwise, they find strength in numbers and stay north. As a disclaimer...I am bouncing ideas...I do not claim to be anywhere nearly as knowledgeable on this subject as others here. But, I do enjoy hunting ducks and have a vested interest in seeing the numbers rebound here in SC.

[JABIII]

Keep on bouncing. I agree with alot of what you say.

[BigBrother]

Another thought, hunting pressure causes the ducks to concentrate in large numbers in a one location,(kinda like Two Rivers... ) With the possibility of the a bird flu epidemic, it would behoove us to allow the ducks to disperse as much as possible. One way to do this is to reduce the hunting pressure.

[JABIII]

We have talked about that too. What about all the refuges, duck ponds, wma's, etc that hold high numbers of birds? Just how much wading around in that water are you going to wanna do?

[DUCK MASTER]

big brother - you must be a duckologist . really you sound like you know a lot about ducks and their habits. i know alot of people just look at a specific thing bring birds back, but you are looking at the whole picture. i like the way you think. just cutting the limit back or no season or plant more for the birds or so on will not bring them back. it is going to take a combination of these to do something noticable. just cutting the limit wont work. (the limit is 6 and we cut it to 3) i consider myself a pretty good hunter, but there isn't many times i go and kill three birds at the lake. planting more and cutting the season length would probably be a better solution. yet, the bag limit reduction wouldn't be a bad for those days you do happen to find some birds.
-dont bash me - just my .02

[BigBrother]

JAB, you mean the ducks will still flock to the impoundments, WMA's, etc in the concentrated numbers that they do now if we reduce/eliminate the pressure? I realize that it is natural for waterfowl to flock up, but I believe that without pressure, they will disperse somewhat.

This would be a "duckologist's" question...Will waterfowl concentrate more with or without pressure? Pressure will most assuredley bust up some flocks...but will elimination of the pressure cause them to flock up more or disperse and take advantage of open waterways?

DM-negative on that...just enjoy hunting them and want to do my part in keeping that alive. The duckology I leave to more qualified people than I.

[DUCK MASTER]

im right there with you on that. love to hunt and would definetely hate to see it go away.

-here ducky ducky ducky -

[Nab]

JABIII - NO, I DO NOT WANT DUCKS DYING FROM THE BIRD FLU! My point was that a scare would close/ shorten seasons and maybe help the ducks.
Don't even try and take what I said out of context and make it seem I want ducks getting the bird flu - again, I DON NOT want that happening.

[BigBrother]

Originally posted by BigBrother:
This would be a "duckologist's" question...Will waterfowl concentrate more with or without pressure? Pressure will most assuredley bust up some flocks...but will elimination of the pressure cause them to flock up more or disperse and take advantage of open waterways?

<font size="-1" face="verdana,arial,helv">Valid question...anyone with some input?

[JJ McGuire]

Originally posted by BigBrother:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /><font size="-1" face="verdana,arial,helv">Originally posted by BigBrother:
This would be a "duckologist's" question...Will waterfowl concentrate more with or without pressure? Pressure will most assuredley bust up some flocks...but will elimination of the pressure cause them to flock up more or disperse and take advantage of open waterways?

<font size="-1" face="verdana,arial,helv">Valid question...anyone with some input? </font>[/QUOTE]<font size="-1" face="verdana,arial,helv">I am no expert but with less pressure from hunting and being able to move to a place of less competition for necessities with other ducks, to a certain extent they would spread out.

[trigger]

Originally posted by Nab:
you believe what you read - not what the vast majority is actually encountering - a decrease in duck numbers almost nation wide.

<font size="-1" face="verdana,arial,helv">You really don't have any idea what you are talking about do you? The vast majority of this country is seeing record breaking hunting seasons over the past 10 years. Just because your little pisshole has been turned into tamie central doesn't mean the rest of the country has.

Your singular lack of insight into ducks in general makes one wonder if you have ever killed any at all. Go tell the hunters in Missouri, Ohio, Michigan, California, Texas, Nebraska, Kansas, Washington,etc. how bad their hunting is and watch as they look at you with the same blank stares you receive from your fellow committee members.

Originally posted by Nab:
Where are all of the these ducks you and your "pros" say exist? Sure they are some pockets of good duck numbers and hunting.

<font size="-1" face="verdana,arial,helv">Pockets? I doubt you know enough geography for me to even begin to school you on that one.

Originally posted by Nab:
When all agree duck numbers are down why do we reduce harvest - shorter seasons and lower limits?

<font size="-1" face="verdana,arial,helv">Is that supposed to be a real question? Besides ducks and geography, just what other subjects are you deficient in?

Originally posted by Nab:
If it works then then we should be doing it now because your pro's say the habitat is not at it's' carrying level.

<font size="-1" face="verdana,arial,helv">What is this "your Pro" drivel? Oh that's right. it is another BIG NAB CONSPIRACY. They are paying off the biologists to steal his ducks again.

Originally posted by Nab:
Alot of your pro's' will not admit they've screwed up - they will not go against the politician that pay their bills

<font size="-1" face="verdana,arial,helv">Which one's screwed up? Where? What exactly did they screw up?

Which politicians are telling our biologists that they can't do their jobs? Give us a name. Give us a bunch of names. CONSISTANCY. We love you for it, Nab.

Originally posted by Nab:
why do we have the longest seasons and highest limits than any other period in modern times - are you saying we've got more ducks than 60 yrs ago?

<font size="-1" face="verdana,arial,helv">Because we have the ducks to shoot. 105 day season and 7 duck limit in much of the country and they are having fantastic hunting. Tell us about those mergansers you shot again.

Originally posted by Nab:
Even the pros admit to ducks being below their self imposed longterm goals and we still have these liberal seasons? Does that really make sense to your little feable mind?

<font size="-1" face="verdana,arial,helv">The word is feeble you mental giant you.

Originally posted by Nab:
Nobody - the FWS, DU, etc, anybody who makes money from things being good is gonna want to admit to things not being good - is the FWS gonna hurt the local economies by saying anything bad?

<font size="-1" face="verdana,arial,helv">Just which local economies are being hurt? Show me one single instance of the "FWS, DU, etc" saying that the hunting is just GREAT here in SC. You can't. Show me one instance of them saying that the hunting is GREAT somewhere else it is bad. You won't. Show me. Ahh CONSISTANCY.

Originally posted by Nab:
Is DU gonna piss off their big sponsors by saying anything is bad?

<font size="-1" face="verdana,arial,helv">Oh so now DU is covering up bad hunting. I see. Well maybe I don't since to understand how your mind works would likely involve huffing gas fumes or something as drastic. You are saying that Big Sponsors are too dumb to know if they are killing ducks or not?

Originally posted by Nab:
You go ahead and hide in your little world and go on thinking things are hunky dory - keep believing how good things are and you'll be shooting tamies real soon - hell, you probably are now.

<font size="-1" face="verdana,arial,helv">Duck hunters are still killing ducks. I am sorry that you can no longer dump your sack of corn and kill them in your backyard.

Originally posted by Nab:
Now am I waiting on the weather to bring the ducks back - nope - if we had ducks they would be here anyways

<font size="-1" face="verdana,arial,helv">Profound. Be sure to read that one out too.

Originally posted by Nab:
weather plays a big part but not near as big as it has been played up to be in the last 15yrs - all the weather is is a good excuse for their not being ducks here like they should be if things were as good as the pro's would like us to believe.

<font size="-1" face="verdana,arial,helv">I think you just succeeded in giving me a headache. Is the Weather Channel involved in this great conspiracy too?

Originally posted by Nab:
Hell, as bad as it seems, this bird flu scare might end up helping the ducks by cutting back hunting or closing the seasons.

<font size="-1" face="verdana,arial,helv">Are you freaking kidding me? Did I just read that? I would be laughing if I didn't know that you were serious.

Originally posted by Nab:
When people once again start doing what is right for the ducks and stop worrying about the hunters and money things might get better

<font size="-1" face="verdana,arial,helv">There old has been goes again. Some of us actually hunt and kill ducks. Some of us just like to talk about it. No question about which category you are in.

Originally posted by Nab:
until a changes occurs keep hiding your head up a pros butt and telling yourself things are great - hell, it's works for everybody else except the ducks.

<font size="-1" face="verdana,arial,helv">Shine on you crazy diamond.