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Thread: Top Sowing Wheat for Doves

  1. #41
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    DT, I believed that you addressed the issue as you see it, that being "why top sewing wheat is bad"...

    when the actual issue for John Q. Voter is "how can we improve dove hunting opportunities in SC".

    The fact of the matter is it is a tradition that is slipping away. People are talking about top sewing wheat again and you know it is not just the trailer park constituency... that is how bad is has gotten.

    do we ban morning hunts? top sew on DNR fields only? charge $10 for DNR fields? What do we do?

  2. #42
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    I tried to find your post re: sportsman's poll or legislative ideas....couldn't find it dt. hmm.
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    If you make it ok to top sow wheat why not sunflowers and cracked corn?

    I would be just fine if thay told me I couldn't Manipulate a crop. But I don't think it is right for me to be able to top sow wheat and not sunflowers.

  4. #44
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    plant em and bushhawg em.
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    you missed my point. If this is for John Q public than why not make it so he can top sow corn and sunflowers.

    BTW - If you are cutting your sunflowers then you are missing out. Let them stand and make sure the field is clean. You will hunt over them all three seasons.

  6. #46
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    The way I understand it, you can top sew corn...as long as you plant it and it never leaves the field, you can harvest it and crack it back on the ground. I think this may be a "kept my receipt for the tamies" rule.
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  7. #47
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    Does anyone know the states that do/don't allow topsewing?
    GA, FLA, NC, AL ????anyone
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  8. #48
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    Here is the federal reg from Fish & Wildlife. It appears legal to sow the wheat. Why can't SC residents do this and hunt?

    Office of Law Enforcement Dove Baiting


    Federal Regulations Title 50, Part 20.11

    Federal Regulations Title 50, Part 20.21 (i)

    Hunter's Responsibility


    What is Legal?

    You can hunt doves on, over, or from:

    * Lands or areas where seeds or grains have been scattered solely as the result of normal agricultural operations, which include normal agricultural harvestings, normal agricultural post-harvest manipulations, or normal agricultural practices.
    * Lands planted by means of top-sowing or aerial seeding where seeds have been scattered solely as the result of a normal agricultural planting, a planting for agricultural soil erosion control, or a planting for post-mining land reclamation.
    * Lands or areas where grain or feed has been distributed or scattered solely as the result of the manipulation of an agricultural crop or other feed on the land where grown.
    * Standing crops.
    * Lands planted as wildlife food plots, provided the seed is planted in a manner consistent with Cooperative State Research, Education, and Extension Service recommendations for the planting of wildlife food plots. In states without Cooperative Extension Service recommendations for the planting of food plots, the seed must be planted in accordance with Extension Service guidelines for producing a crop.
    * Lands planted as pasture improvements or for the purpose of grazing livestock. (The Fish and Wildlife Service will not make a distinction between agricultural fields planted with the intent to gather a crop and those planted without such intent provided the planting is carried out in a manner consistent with the recommendations of State Extension Specialists).
    * Standing or manipulated natural vegetation.
    * A blind or other place of concealment camouflaged with natural vegetation.
    * A blind or other place of concealment camouflaged with vegetation from agricultural crops, provided your use of such vegetation does not expose, deposit, distribute or scatter grain or other feed. You should be aware that seeds or grains from such vegetation could create a baited area.

    Dove Hunting on Agricultural Lands

    Agricultural lands offer good dove hunting. You can hunt doves in fields where grain has been distributed or scattered solely as the result of a normal agricultural operation. A normal agricultural operation includes normal agricultural plantings, harvestings, or post-harvest manipulations as well as other normal agricultural practices if they are conducted in accordance with recommendations of State Extension Specialists of the Cooperative State Research, Education, and Extension Service.

    You can also hunt doves over lands planted by means of top sowing or aerial seeding where seeds have been scattered solely as the result of a normal agricultural planting or a normal soil stabilization practice.

    Planting and Harvesting

    Planted seeds and grains that have not sprouted are very attractive to doves. Lands planted by means of top-sowing or aerial seeding can be hunted where seeds are present solely as the result of a normal agricultural planting or normal soil stabilization practice.

    A normal agricultural planting is a planting undertaken for the purpose of producing or gathering a crop. Normal plantings do not involve the placement of grain in piles or other concentrations. Plantings must follow Cooperative State Research, Education, and Extension Service recommendations. Relevant factors include recommended planting dates, proper seed distribution, seed bed preparation, application rate, and seed viability.

    A normal soil stabilization practice is a planting for agricultural soil erosion control or post-mining land reclamation conducted in accordance with recommendations of State Extension Specialists.

    The planting of wildlife food plots is considered a normal agricultural operation in many areas of the country. In many states, State Extension Specialists provide recommendations for the planting of wildlife food plots. Doves may be hunted over wildlife food plots planted in accordance with these recommendations. In those states where the Cooperative State Research, Education, and Extension Service does not issue recommendations for the planting of wildlife food plots, doves may be hunted over these plots where seed has been planted in a manner consistent with the guidelines for producing a crop. However, seeds freshly planted or otherwise distributed for the purpose of luring, attracting, or enticing doves within gun range will be considered baiting. To avoid any question, planting of wildlife food plots should occur early enough to allow time for the seeds to germinate.

    You may hunt doves over manipulated grain crops, such as corn, wheat, milo, sorghum, millet, sunflower, and buckwheat.

    Other Agricultural Practices

    Agricultural activities other than planting or harvesting also scatter grain or other feed in agricultural areas. You can hunt doves in such areas provided the agricultural operation involved is a normal agricultural practice (i.e., one that produces livestock or a crop) and follows recommendations of State Extension Specialists. Examples include "hogged down" fields (where livestock have been allowed to enter fields and feed on standing crops) and feedlots (small enclosed areas where farmers feed livestock to increase their weight). You cannot, however, hunt in an area where grain, salt, or other feed has been placed to improve dove hunting.

    Pasture Lands

    Doves may be hunted over lands planted for the purpose of developing pasture as well as over lands planted for the purpose of pasture improvements. In both cases, the planting must be carried out in a manner consistent with recommendations of State Extension Specialists.

    Manipulation of Crops and Other Vegetation

    Agricultural crops, other feed, and natural vegetation may be manipulated to improve dove hunting. Manipulation means the alteration of natural vegetation or agricultural crops by activities such as mowing, shredding, discing, rolling, chopping, trampling, flattening, burning, or herbicide treatments. Manipulation does not include the distributing or scattering of seeds, grains, or other feed after removal from or storage on the field where grown. You should be aware that although you can hunt doves over manipulated agricultural crops, you cannot hunt waterfowl over manipulated agricultural crops except after the field has been subject to a normal harvest and removal of grain (i.e., post-harvest manipulation).

    For More Information

    The Federal migratory game bird hunting regulations can be found in 50 CFR Part 20 . If you have additional questions about dove hunting and the law, contact the nearest U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service law enforcement office or one of the Service regional law enforcement offices . You should also consult State fish and wildlife agencies to determine what State regulations apply.

  9. #49
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    you can take that to the bank, walker. Good stuff. Seems it is our legislature that is letting us down on this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn View Post
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  10. #50
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    can you people not shoot doves in one of today's dove fields? maybe your shooting sucks. maybe y'all are lazy.

    i dont want top-sowing of wheat because it will only make it too easy for some other yahoo to steal my doves I worked hard(er) for.
    Ugh. Stupid people piss me off.

  11. #51
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    Is it possible that top sewing makes more food readily available for young birds as winter approaches, thereby decreasing "natural" mortality?
    If you don't know me how could I offend you?

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  12. #52
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    If you were a farmer would you buy certified seed($20-25.00 per bag) and spread them on the ground for birds to eat 75% of your seed?

    If you wanted a crop?


    Just by shallow discing or using a seed drill you would reduce seed costs by 75%.

  13. #53
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    DT, how many acres of Sunflowers are grown for commercial seed harvest in the State of South Carolina? The person I spoke to at the SC Dept. of Agriculture did not know of any but she didn't sound all that informed.

  14. #54
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    Duck Tape - this is your normal pure bullshit double talk.
    Like I've said before, I was told by a buddy that attended the DNR meetings where the elimination of top sewing wheat was discussed - it was stopped because - at least - one person wanted it stopped - plain and simple - DT and DUCKMAN know exactly who this "one person" was/is. He was tired of having "his" doves "stolen" because of top sewed wheat.
    The other ways to decrease the harvest was looked at, but the decision had already been made to begin with - eliminate top-sewed wheat.
    Now being able to cut and shread corn, bush hogging millet and sunflowers is the same as tow sewing wheat - you're putting out food to attract doves to be shot.
    Duck Tape - you say top sewing would be seen as just baiting - well, what would bushhogging and shredding corn be seen as? a normal ag practice?
    You're full of bullshit once again and you smell worse the longer this crap you talk keeps going.
    I always thought a website was a selling tool, not a product repair manual!

  15. #55
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    alright heres a question for ya if clemson says to plant wheat in oct. to be normal practice then why whne you go to a public dove field there is wheat planted or scattered on the ground with no wheat planted have seen this many times at several different public dove fields is the DNR excempt from this law?
    oh hell i done it again

  16. #56
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    How long ago rowdy? Get pics or else I call BULLSHIT!
    Gettin old is for pussies! AND MY NEW TRUE people say like Capt. Tom >>>>>>>>>/
    "Wow, often imitated but never duplicated. No one can do it like the master. My hat is off to you DRDUCK!"

  17. #57
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    It seems to me that the two things that should be considered first in this argument is the resource (Doves) and hunters. In that order. I think that you can make a very good argument that under the current interpretation of the rules both are benefiting. In both the short and long run. Under the current rules fields planted for doves have to be managed very closely to insure that they both follow the law and provide quality habitat for the resource. Under the current law a well managed field will provide quality habitat from August until March. In early August there better be some food to start attracting doves, continuing through September both food and pressure have to be managed to provide a good balance between habitat and hunting opportunities. If you have planned ahead there will be good habitat come November for a few quality second season hunts. Then if you really want to do some true migratory dove hunting then you will need an abundance of habitat for our little gray friends during December and January. Now come the end of the third season you might as well leave the remaining Sunflowers standing and cut the remainder of the corn so any remaining doves and all the other birds benefit.

    Or you can top sow some wheat and get a few good hunts then walk away from the field until next August.

    I would rather manage for the resource to provide long term habitat and quality hunting.
    This is how traditions are built and carried on. It is expensive to manage for dove the right way, however if you truly are interested in helping the resource you will find a way to provide yourself with a quality place to hunt. It might take saving a few bucks or you might be able to put in a few hours of labor. The opportunities are out there for John Q public he just has to get up and make it happen.

    If you can’t tell I am not for Top sowing wheat. It will not affect my field one way or another; I just think it is the wrong thing for the resource.

  18. #58
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    Those are federal regs. Using logic and honesty, there are no other possible interpretations.


    Your statement leads me to conclude that any other states (if there were any)top sewing wheat were in violation of Federal law. Where is Barney when we need a "citizens arrayest"
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  19. #59
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    my only distinction from DT's argument is the allowance that crops can be manipulated for wildlife.

    I hear ya' on the planting means and times but I don't think topsewing for wheat is any more of a bastardization of good ag. practice than bushhogging a solid crop of corn, sunflowers, sorghum, millet, or wheat.

    It is a slippery slope because we certainly don't want the "good ag practice" corrected to disallow bushogging or combining back into the field a standing crop.

    But I think the argument of "good ag. practice" as a stand alone argument against top sewing of wheat is one dimensional.
    If you don't know me how could I offend you?

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    good point, Candork. It just "sifts out the trash", if you will. that way, resources rule. There is nothing "normal" about the normal agricultural practice of bushawging corn or cracking corn or planting not to harvest. Normal agricultural practices that allow "top sewing or aerial seeding" are quite legal. We have discussed top sewing jap millet. Double standards are real, all who are married know that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn View Post
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