Top Sowing Wheat for Doves

[Swamp Rat]

FYI, Brown Dog... 3 hunts, 36 doves, club field managed for doves (but not manipulated - yet) Corn and sunflowers, with the corn harvested and the sunflowers (not real clean) left standing.

He'll turn his cows loose in the sunflowers after the first season... they'll knock em down. Is THAT manipulation?

[jwilliams]

3 hunts..30

[Green Heads Only]

North Carolina Regulations:
Small grains and ryegrass are sometimes seeded in cotton or corn fields immediately after corn and cotton harvest. In those situations, a light disking of the corn or cotton stalks after seeding will constitute a legitimate attempt to establish the cover crop.

[Moatsy]

I don't need studies GHO... I am not angling to claim to carry the banner for outdoorsmen in the legislature.
I leave a lot of food sources and areas of rest for birds on my property, what more can be expected of a private citizen?

[Mergie Master]

Originally posted by Catdaddy:
I shot a dove last week full of pigeon milk. She obviously had two young ones somewhere.

Two years ago there was a dove nesting in my back lot at work. They she would leave and go to the field(on the edge of town) where the shooting was taking place. She made it through somnehow and raised the two young birds.


Doves have the ability to nest year round but do far less in the cooler months.


Just some food for thought.

True that, especially where it's warmer year round. When we were visiting the wife's grandfather (before he died) in Waycross Georgia in December one year I saw a dove nesting in his yard. I asked him about it and he said that wasn't unusual for the area. He said they nest year round down there.

[BrownDog]

http://www.clemson.edu/extension/
http://www.dnr.sc.gov/pubs/AttractingDovesLegally.pdf

Nab - You should be able to find what you are looking for in the CU link under small grains.

[Swamp Rat]

I feed a lot of doves in my back yard. Our old dove club used to leave a lot of sunflowers for later birds.

I don't harvest any back yard doves, but my cat does from time to time.

[Nab]

I know TX allows it also - seems we're special since we can't tow sew wheat for at least a month later than the states around us do.
And Duck Tape, I know what Clemson said/says, the big question is why their recom. are so much later than the other states around us.

[Green Heads Only]

Art I looked at too many state DNR websites and got the dates wrong. Thanks for correcting me. The thing that struck me was that they are basically the same as SC. They all are required by the feds to stick to to their "Clemson" guidelines just like SC.

I've got to continue this another I'm not getting anything done at work going in circles with this topic.

[Catdaddy]

When's the best time to plant cracked corn?

Does it need as much water as regular corn?

[Green Heads Only]

Cracked Corn Planting Dates:

Preferred Time: Two weeks before a hunt for all zones.
Preferred Water: No water is best.
Prefered soil type: hard packed

[jwilliams]

What are laws pertaining to baiting doves and hunting in agricultural areas?
by Denton O. Baumbarger


This information is provided to guide sportsmen/women in the preparation of and hunting over dove fields and agricultural areas. This publication is printed and distributed by the NC Wildlife Resources Commission.

The mourning dove is the most hunted and harvested game bird in the United States. About 50 million mourning doves are taken annually by U.S. hunters. Dove hunting is equally popular in North Carolina. In 1998-99, approximately 77,029 North Carolina hunters harvested an estimated 1.24 million doves. Mourning doves are migratory birds that congregate where food, bare soil and water are abundant. It follows that agricultural areas offer some of the best dove hunting. However, strict laws govern the hunting of migratory birds. Of particular importance are regulations that pertain to "baiting". Every year, numerous North Carolina hunters are cited for hunting over baited fields. It is, therefore, important that hunters and farmers fully understand how the management of agricultural operations relates to dove hunting regulations.

Hunter Responsibilities: The mourning dove is a migratory game bird regulated under the authority of the Migratory Bird Treaty Act as well as state laws and rules. Many of you may be aware of a recent determination by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service clarifying interpretation of the federal migratory game bird hunting regulations. Prior to the change, the Migratory Bird Treaty was considered to be a strict liability statute wherein a hunter's guilt could be established without having to prove that he or she knew of the bait, should have known of the bait, or intended to violate the law. This federal law now prohibits the taking of migratory game birds by the aid of baiting, or on or over any baited area, if the person knows or reasonably should know that the area is a baited area. In addition, it is now a separate offense to place or direct the placement of bait on or adjacent to an area for the purpose of causing, inducing, or allowing any person to take or attempt to take any migratory game bird by the aid of baiting or on or over the baited area. State statutes are even more restrictive in this case. State statutes GS 113-291.1 simply say that "No wild birds may be taken with the use or aid of salt, grain, fruit or other bait…". In other words, nothing has changed with respect to the strict liability interpretation under state law.


It is the dove hunter's responsibility to ensure that he or she does not shoot in or over a baited field. To prevent becoming involved in a baiting controversy, hunters should: (1) fully understand dove hunting regulations, (2) inspect the area to be hunted for signs of baiting and (3) ask the owner of a field or the host of a hunt if grain or feed has been placed and been present on the area within the previous ten days. Individuals, while hunting, also bear the responsibility of behaving in a safe and sportsmanlike manner.

What the regulations say about baiting: Title 50 of the Code of Federal Regulations details regulations governing the hunting of migratory game birds. The specific regulation that addresses baiting is found in Part 20.21 (i). It states,

"No persons shall take migratory game birds by the aid of baiting, or on or over any baited area, where a person knows or reasonably should know that the area is or has been baited."

NC General Statutes 113-291.1 are more restrictive in that: "No wild birds may be taken with the use or aid of salt, grain, fruit or other bait…". Note, contrary to federal law, there are no conditions or mitigating circumstances defined under this statute.

Part 20.11 (k) of Title 50 offers additional language that defines the terms of baiting and baited area. The code says that,

"...baiting means the direct or indirect placing, exposing, depositing, distributing or scattering of salt, grain, or other feed that could serve as a lure or attraction for migratory game birds to, on, or over any areas where hunters are attempting to take them."


Part 20.11 (j) of the code defines a baited area as,

"... any area on which salt, grain, or other feed has been placed, exposed, deposited, distributed, or scattered, if that salt, grain, or other feed could serve as a lure or attraction for migratory game birds to, on, or over areas where hunters are attempting to take them. Any such area will remain a baited area for ten days following the complete removal of all such salt, grain, or other feed.

Since birds often return to a feeding area for a period of time after food supplies are exhausted, hunting within 10 days after complete disappearance of feed from a baited area is illegal.

Normal Planting and Harvesting Operations: There are several situations in which hunting over grain fields is not considered to be baited. Doves may be taken over crops that are left standing for whatever purpose. Doves may legally be hunted in areas of normal agricultural operations and where normal agricultural planting, harvesting, or post-harvest manipulation has occurred. Doves may also be hunted over areas planted as part of normal soil stabilization practices conducted for soil erosion control purposes. Doves may be hunted in areas that are properly planted and managed as dove fields. Doves may be taken over grain crops properly shocked on the field in which they were grown. Shocking involves the upright stacking of sheaves of grain in a field for drying. It is a grain handling and drying method seldom used on modern farms.


Part 20.11 (h) of Title 50 defines normal agricultural operation


"…means a normal agricultural planting, harvesting, post-harvest manipulation, or agricultural practice, that is conducted in accordance with official recommendations of State Extension Specialists of the Cooperative Extension Service of the U.S. Department of Agriculture."


Part 20.11 (g) of Title 50 defines normal agricultural planting, harvesting, or post-harvest manipulation


"…means a planting or harvesting undertaken for the purpose of producing and gathering a crop, or manipulation after such harvest and removal of grain, that is conducted in accordance with official recommendations of State Extension Specialists of the Cooperative Extension Service of the U.S. Department of Agriculture."

Part 20.11 (i) of Title 50 defines normal soil stabilization practice


"…means a planting for agricultural soil erosion control or post-mining land reclamation conducted in accordance with official recommendations of State Extension Specialists of the Cooperative Extension Service of the U.S. Department of Agriculture."

During the planting and harvesting of crops, small quantities of seed are always lost and scattered. Hunters may pursue doves in these areas if the amount of grain present is consistent with normal agricultural practices. Purposeful attempts to lose and/or distribute excessive grain on a field during planting and harvesting operations would result in the amount of grain present exceeding normal rates and harvest losses as established by the North Carolina Cooperative Extension Service (see Table 1).

Normal planting procedures involve the use of specific planting dates, economical seeding rates, effective seeding methods and tillage favorable to establishment of a crop. Acceptable planting dates and seeding rates for some crops over which doves may be hunted are available from County Extension Service offices in each County. For example, fields seeded to wheat in the early fall for a cover crop, for grazing, or for a dove field the following year, will attract doves. A legitimate dove field management technique is to plant small grain in the fall, mow it in the following late-summer to early-fall, and then hunt over the field; provided that normal planting procedures and planting dates were followed. Normal planting dates for such wheat fields are between September 1 - November 21 in Coastal Plain areas, August 20 -November 8 in Piedmont sites, and August 1 - October 27 in Mountain locations. Seeding rates of 2 to 3 bushels per acre are appropriate (see Table 2). The use of excessive seeding rates on fields hunted for doves may be interpreted as baiting. Most wheat planted for grain is seeded with a grain drill, or if broadcast, the seed are covered by a light disking.


There are a few other legitimate ways to establish cover crops wherein broadcast seeding is not followed by tillage. As in the old regulation, the new regulations "will allow the hunting of any migratory game bird, including doves, over lands planted by means of top sowing or aerial seeding if seeds are present solely as the result of a normal agricultural planting, or a normal soil stabilization practice. Some farmers overseed small grains or winter annual legumes, such as wheat or crimson clover, respectively, into standing cotton or soybeans. In such instances, the crop should be seeded before cotton is defoliated or leaves fall from the soybean plants. Small grains and ryegrass are sometimes seeded in cotton or corn fields immediately after corn and cotton harvest. In those situations, a light disking of the corn or cotton stalks after seeding will constitute a legitimate attempt to establish the cover crop. The mowing of harvested corn, cotton stalks or other crop residues after seeding to form a mulch over the broadcast seed also represents a reasonable effort to establish the small grain or grass. When cover or grazing crops are treated as described above, hunters can be confident that they are not shooting over a baited field.

Oh, wow, you caught me feel. I repasted the pasted above.

[jwilliams]

Can I legally hunt doves over top sown winter wheat? Yes, provided the wheat has been sown as a normal agricultural practice such as a grain crop, cover crop, pasture renovation, soil erosion control or wildlife winter food plot and conforms with the UT Agricultural Extension Service guidelines.

This Statement keeps them within the FEDERAL GUIDELINES.

Be sure to LIGHTLY disc.

[Nab]

Thanks BD, I've seen the DNR regs, but still can't find anything on the Clemson website - I'm probably just overlooking it so if you find it please point it out to me!
I think we understand why we can't hunt over top sewn wheat and it's not because Clemson says we can't, but it's because of the way they have ag. rec. written.
It's just seems funny that the states around us allow for top sewn wheat in Aug. and early Sept to be considered normal - why is this so? Find out the real answer to this and we'll have our answer.
One more thing - if someone were to top sew wheat in August and not hunt over it would they be guilty of any crime? Aren't these just recommendations,but don't stop people from doing it sooner?

[Green Heads Only]

Florida allows no top-sown hunting at all.
Alabama and North Carolina require you to lightly disk it in after top-sowing.(because it does not grow well if heavily disked)
Clemson is loathe to recommend September planting dates because of past insect and disease outbreaks associated with our pre-1995 warm weather "plantings".

[Nab]

I did a search on this Hessian fly on Clemson's website and didn't see anything about this concern over early "plantings".
These other states don't worry about the Hessian fly?
I would like to see in writing where this concern is expressed.

[Swamp Rat]

Would cultipacking give the same results as lightly disking?

[BrownDog]

Everyone needs to take a look at this!! I came across it this afternoon. It sure does put a new new argument on the dates. Still no top sowing but from what I read in this (table 2 dated 7/2007) I could plant wheat on 9/1 if I lived in the upstate.
http://virtual.clemson.edu/groups/ps...O/forage20.pdf

Cultipacking would count as lightly disking.

[Green Heads Only]

Planting Date: Planting date is always a compromise between yield potential and frost / pest risks. Early planting can raise yield potential by increasing productive tiller count, promoting a larger plant, and prolonging the grain fill period; but early planting also exposes you to greater risk from spring freezes, Hessian fly, and aphid-transmitted barley yellow dwarf virus. For example, at Blackville it is risky to plant before Nov. 15, and we should try to finish by Dec. 1. In the northern coastal plain of S.C. the optimal planting date is about two weeks earlier (Nov. 1).
Try these links:
Clemson Wheat Guidelines
Clemson Wheat & Hessian Fly treatment
More

[Green Heads Only]

Brown Dog that's good if you are wanting to grow wheat early but bad for hunting cause it wont draw many doves.