S.C. Duck "State of State"

**DUCKMAN** · 10-18-2004, 01:57 PM

1. What can the STATE do to improve waterfowl and waterfowl hunting in this state?

2. What can WE as a group do to improve waterfowl and waterfowl hunting in this state?

3.What are WE/I/GROUP willing to sacrifice to improve waterfowl and waterfowl hunting in SC?

4. What is your opinion as to why waterfowl and waterfowl hunting in SC has suffered such a drastic decline(if in fact it has)?

(Its that time again! - no personal attacks so we can keep this out of the AUTS forum - If you want to call he/she/it a name - PM them!)

**Red** · 10-18-2004, 03:04 PM

1. Improve Refuge at Jack's, bring back Hydrilla
2. Promote proper ethics
3. Reduce days of the season, 40?
4. Short stopping

**Oregon Duck** · 10-18-2004, 03:57 PM

This is based on what I have read about the state but..

1)Replant the acorn producing trees back in the swamp. (a long term fix)
2)Lower bag limits and half day hunts
3)For the good of the ducks, if I had to take a couple years off to bring back the numbers, I would have no problem
4)Not enough time here to know, What I do know is there are more hunters here than I have ever seen. Pressure has to be a problem.

**deadriver** · 10-18-2004, 04:04 PM

Pressure!!!!

Any way you look at it. Ducks will leave a state becase of pressure. Nodak has lost their birds this last week because the pressure has "blown them off". They have sold more non-res liscensces this year than ever. If they can loose birds due to pressure we damn sure do.

Limit number of hunters on body of water.

Limit the days a given area or lake can be hunted per week.

Lower the bag

Reduce the length of season.

**Catdaddy** · 10-18-2004, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by deadriver:

Nodak has lost their birds this last week because the pressure has "blown them off". They have sold more non-res liscensces this year than ever. If they can loose birds due to pressure we damn sure do.

Deadriver,
That's just not correct.

This is from the Mpls Tribune...

The number of nonresident waterfowl hunters journeying to North Dakota is down 27 percent from last year, but the cause of the decline -- and whether it will persist through the season -- is uncertain.

"I think we're going to have a reduction, but the percentage is up in the air yet," said Paul Schadewald of the North Dakota Game and Fish Department.

He said the decline could be due to several factors:

• rustration over nonresident hunting restrictions;

• The increase in license costs to hunt both waterfowl and pheasants;

• Poor waterfowl conditions in some areas, including the south-central region, popular with nonresidents;

• The mild fall weather, which hasn't pushed migrating ducks into the state yet.

The state sold about 15,700 nonresident waterfowl licenses through last week, compared to about 20,000 during the same period last year. The state eventually sold 26,000 licenses last season, down from 30,000 in 2002. About half are sold to Minnesota residents.

I'm not dissagreeing on the pressure point but the ND license sale info is just not correct.

And they went down 14% from 2002 to 2003.

**deadriver** · 10-18-2004, 04:44 PM

They have sold over 21,000 as of five minutes ago and expect sales to be at or above last year. So, sorry for the stretch. I was basing it from coversation this morning with a refuge manager. It does not change the fact that they loose their birds much sooner now than when they sold only about 8,000 liscencse up to 1996. The refuges out there can tell you the counts and dates by year.

It also does not change the fact that Sand Lake (Northern SD) has gained an estimated 50,000 in the last week. The weather they have had is not bad enough to push that many birds according to the Biologist at Sand Lake. Yet, they are getting birds.

Waterfowler.com has field reportst that reflect the loss of birds across most of the state. They should be building birds at this point, not loosing them. They sell too many liscences now and pressure moves the birds.

But again, I apologize for posting inaccurately.

**Swamp Rat** · 10-18-2004, 05:06 PM

What the State of SC can do...

Cut the season to 45 days? Might help, might not. I would not mind it.
Reduce the limit to 4 ducks to get folks off the water quicker.
The big one.... ESTABLISH WMA's FOR WATERFOWL MANAGEMENT over to cover all of the highest pressured waterfowl hunting areas in the state. You can use this mechanism to allow full or part day closures, etc. in a manner that is appropriate for THAT area.
Eliminate the practice of releasing mallards (or other ducks) in the way it is done now, to preserve the nesting mottled duck populations.
(Where money and land permit) Establish more well-managed draw hunt AND general access type local hunting sites along the lines of Potato Creek, Santee Delta East/West, etc. - that is the HARDEST of the above to do.
Back up and punt on the Biedler tract and watch the up and coming Hickory Top tract to get them right - NO hunting in them for three years to let them establish some faithful birds, then LIMIT the number of folks that go in. There are likely other WMA's in the state that could benefit from that treatment.
Prosecute the hell out of late shooters, trespassers, and limit violators.

Other Potential Pressure Reducers...

Shell limits - 25 shells per hunter.
Reduce or eliminate afternoon shooting (with consideration given to coastal hunters that have to watch the tides).
Identify and protect roost areas.

What can we, I, or as a group do to improve waterfowl hunting?

Teach ethics to those starting out.
(The BIGGIE) Be willing to roll with the list of state-mandated options above.
Practice hen restraint.
Give to DU.
Don't DARE release a mallard.
Attend and give constructive input at Waterfowl Committee meetings.
Practice sound hunting ethics.

What can we sacrifice?

See the above.
Be willing to lose some opportunities now for more opportunities later.

That's all I can come up with right now.

Where I respectfully disagree with some of what's already been said...

Hydrilla - I miss it too, but it will NEVER be allowed to come back. It's not the state's call - the Federal government has mandated it's removal and control as a "noxious weed". If it appears again, expect Santee-Cooper or DNR (or both) to put more carp in the water.
Hydrilla continued - believe it or not, most folks favorite duck, the mallard, is NOT really drawn to hydrilla. Ringers and other divers are, as are widgeon and some other puddlers - many not to eat it, but to eat stuff that lives in it. THAT can be reproduced with other means.
Oaks in the swamp - My concern is that the swamp has "matured" to a point where it won't support oaks like it once did. All bodies of water go through life cycles...
Short stopping - it is indeed a MAJOR problem. But the State of SC has no control over what happens in other states. No-till farming and allowing birds to use Federal Refuges unmolested have as much to with it as anything. But, even hunting Refuges has it's downsides.

It's a tough row to hoe. To a large extent, we are truly at the mercy of four BIG factors...

No-till farming (northern states)
Private corn ponds in norther states.
Government refuge short stops in northern states.
FARMING PRACTICES ruining nesting success in northern states - either directly by destroying nests (and sometimes killing the pintail hens ON THE NEST) or indirectly by encouraging predation.
The weather - until the food is covered up, many ducks WON'T LEAVE the north.

I probably missed some factors, but it's late and I'm tired.

NOTE: ALL of these factors are outside of the control of the State of South Carolina. You wanna change it, give $$ to DU and get your senator and reps involved.

**Catdaddy** · 10-18-2004, 05:49 PM

Deadriver,

No problem and I agree with your point. I would add that the harvest in the northern tier states has gone up approx ten fold during that time frame.....while it's decreased in the southern tier states.
So your point about pressure is correct, but alot of those birds are leaving the northern states in coolers instead of flying searching out less pressured areas. The same can be said for Canada.

Some people say the migration has changed. While some of that may be true I think the average age of the birds making it south has jumped by 1 to 2 years. I think the term harvest change would be more appropriate. These are the refuge hoppers that are almost unkillable.
And in using the term refuge, I mean USFWS,State refuges, and private refuges(meaning JAB's and other simular places).

**willtim** · 10-18-2004, 08:25 PM

1.Ensure adequate funding of DNR.
2.Improve habitat.
3.Close the season for three years.
4.Warm winters,less imprinting,and short-stopping.

**KRT** · 10-18-2004, 08:47 PM

Damn good post Swamp Rat

**deadriver** · 10-18-2004, 08:54 PM

CAt- I think that nationally harvest numbers have gone up, but you are right, I know it has in the upper midwest. However, most of the places in the central and miss flyways that monitor hunter success shows a decline in birds/hunter rates. More hunters shooting a few birds.

**Ducktail** · 10-18-2004, 09:01 PM

As usual, Swamp Rat has put a lot of thought into his post. But let me ask this, was Delta not mentioned or did I miss it? I saw a post containing Waterfowl.com.

Swamp Rat for Senator!!

**Swamp Rat** · 10-18-2004, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by Ducktail:
Swamp Rat for Senator!!

Oh, hell no.

**Low Country Sandlapper** · 10-18-2004, 09:20 PM

I hate to tell y'all but Rat is too honest to go into politics. There is not a man of his character in Congress and it is truly a shame for our country.

**GBelly** · 10-18-2004, 09:51 PM

I'll second that, LCS!

**KCM** · 10-18-2004, 10:22 PM

What happens with the ducks that still make it to this state relies on what is happening in the states above. No major freezes up north and more food than they can eat will keep ducks from flying here. I believe what ducks are killed on public waters are young ducks two years old or less, the older ones have learned what is safe and not safe from here to Canada. For only having a brain as big as peanut those suckers are smart on survival and eating.

**deadriver** · 10-18-2004, 11:01 PM

None of us are talking about why Florida gets an ASS of ringnecks now and we don't have shit. Since they killed the Hydrylla on Santee, I have not watched a couple thousnad birds vee up at twilight and head for the Delta. Florida also has alot less hunters. Fact is the little shits go right by us.

**DB5** · 10-19-2004, 09:19 AM

the thing that gets me is that absolutely nothing has been done recently to help the problems with duck numbers in this state

**Nab** · 10-19-2004, 10:46 AM

Our biggest problem is MAN - he will screw up everything!
First we need to find out how bad things really are - the numbers we read don't make sense - duck numbers down(in traditional SC survey areas)but harvest numbers up?!
If the numbers are correct then we still have alot of ducks but they have changed where they go.
What caused this and how to fix it - the boom of duck ponds and duck ponds releasing ducks has changed the distribution of ducks - we need to get things back to a more "normal" situation - refuge, swamps, etc and let Mother Nature do her thing.
Weather - yes, a big factor, but not the evil curse many would lead us to believe - ducks still migrate.
Bottom line - we need to stop thinking we know how to do everything and let nature take care of things.

**DUCKMAN** · 10-19-2004, 11:52 AM

NAB - good post. Many species of ducks do continue to migrate, however, mallards as a general rule only migrate to the weather line because of the food that is there now - that was not traditionally there years ago. This is documented very well.

Thread: S.C. Duck "State of State"

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