SCDNR Deer Survey-# of Bucks

[SCLAND&TIMBER]

QDMA has never recommended killing all the does. You kill ENOUGH does to get to a 1:1 or 2:1 ratio. That's how god intended it to be and we've completely fucked it up. You get the ratio close to equal, regardless of the total number of deer, and you will see more bucks, and you'll see them doing the things that they're supposed to do. You know why.......it's because that when the ratio is close, they have to compete for does. That's why you don't see deer fighting, rubbing, scraping, etc very much in SC.

Regulated buck killing is meant to try to get the ratio in check, and in turn, grow bigger deer by allowing them to get older. Once the ratio gets there, you try to keep it there. Anyone that says they don't won't to kill bigger deer is FOS.

The problem with following QDM standards is who is to say when you get the ratio right? Hunter, biologist, who?

It's all well and good to get the ratio more closer but the problem is that you can carry it to far and then what do you end up with?

No bucks because what are left have moved off your club in search of does. Yet QDMA keeps preaching the killing of does. After a while you do more harm than good if you aren't careful.

Just food for thought...

[britton40]

This is what bothers me with the season opening up in August. I would think it should be does only, or add restrictions of some sort.

The reason its buck only is because does are still tending to fawns who will have a hard time surviving on their own.

[britton40]

The problem with following QDM standards is who is to say when you get the ratio right? Hunter, biologist, who?

It's all well and good to get the ratio more closer but the problem is that you can carry it to far and then what do you end up with?

No bucks because what are left have moved off your club in search of does. Yet QDMA keeps preaching the killing of does. After a while you do more harm than good if you aren't careful.

Just food for thought...

Good point

[quack head 11]

WOW 12 pages. If you have never hunted outside of SC during the rut you dont understand what you are missing.

My thoughts are toooooo many states have done this already. With great results.

Georgia, Kentucky, Ohio, West Virginia, Tennesee and most recently Pennsylvania

I read an article about Penn doing the tag system with limits around 3-4 yrs ago. The insurance companies wanted it to stay a free for all. They have sense changed there stance.

These other states have done the footwork we just need to follow their lead

[PP&WS]

if i wanted to hunt out of south carolina during the rut i would, if you want to be like all these other states take your ass out there. i hunt in south carolina and south carolina only for a reason.

[SuperSwamp Fox]

The problem I have with TV is they whore out every product that will pay them. Telling you guys that if you use this supplement or that food plot seed or what ever you to can kill a monster record book deer. And so you aren't! So it has got to be my fault since I have killed 17 or so bucks over the last few years. It's not because you suck at hunting or that you like the challenge of bow hunting much more than the ease of shooting deer with a rifle or that your are trying "manage" a wild animal that can travel where ever it wants. It's is my fault because I hunt hard on numerous tracts and wma and here is the crazy part I actually kill deer. That stings doesn't it..... I saw it on TV in Iowa it has to work here!!!!!

[PP&WS]

The problem I have with TV is they whore out every product that will pay them. Telling you guys that if you use this supplement or that food plot seed or what ever you to can kill a monster record book deer. And so you aren't! So it has got to be my fault since I have killed 17 or so bucks over the last few years. It's not because you suck at hunting or that you like the challenge of bow hunting much more than the ease of shooting deer with a rifle or that your are trying "manage" a wild animal that can travel where ever it wants. It's is my fault because I hunt hard on numerous tracts and wma and here is the crazy part I actually kill deer. That stings doesn't it..... I saw it on TV in Iowa it has to work here!!!!!

that is the point i hve been trying to get across through this whole thread, if you cant kill a good deer or alot of deer in south carolina you just need to look at what you are doing and maybe change something. my grandad has killed more deer than most people have ever seen, never owned a deer stand never owned a scope, never had camo, smelled like diesel fuel all the time and killed the with an open sight 30-30.

[SuperSwamp Fox]

But I am ok with what I kill. How do I affect you guys??????? I know when we kill a monster buck where I hunt, he is truly a trophy. He is not a buck that someone has watched everyday until one day he becomes a trophy. Here, they are the very best to survive. And I like that!!

[quack head 11]

if i wanted to hunt out of south carolina during the rut i would, if you want to be like all these other states take your ass out there. i hunt in south carolina and south carolina only for a reason.

Dont worry I will, and I will every year. Thank you for staying here, we dont want yahoos like you coming out of state.

As far as why you will only hunt here, Im gonna guess it would be because you dont have the self restraint to let a 120" deer walk by?


Back to being serious. IMO some type of system is needed. No it wont keep everybody from cheating but it will alot of em.

Heres how I like to look at it. If EVERYBODY that hunted in South Carolina went out and klilled like alot of these fellas do, in 5 years I think the deer population would be depleted. I want my kids and grandkids to be able to have fun hunting like we do.

I know a group that killed 96 deer in one season in the upstate. No dogs, no bait piles.

Now do you really think that is neccesary?

Like I said think about if everyone did this

[SCBUCKSLAYER]

its time for a change..we got nothing to lose...some restriction would only
make our hunting better

[jwilliams]

Oh and if this hypthetical deer decline was happening, wouldnt dnr do away with depredation permits before any of this other stuff.

It makes sense that they would if we had a declining population. One of the clubs I hunt had 60+ tags 2 years ago.

[3chunter]

its time for a change..we got nothing to lose...some restriction would only
make our hunting better

Is it because you never kill anything that makes you feel like this!!???

[jwilliams]

According to the 2008 SCDNR Deer Density Map Laurens, Newberry, Union, Chester have the highest density of deer per square mile. NO BAITING ALLOWED.

Its interesting that Richland and Lexington have the lowest but they can bait.

http://www.dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/deer/deermap.html

I agree with you on the corn piles. I lived in Murrells Inlet for several years and joined a club in Georgetown.

2200 acres with 2400+lbs of corn on the ground at all times. I finally learned about half way through the season that corn piles suck.

We have an abundance of does. Myself and six others kill around 35 doe a year on a 1000 acre tract and they keep coming. The west side of the 1000 acres is next to 20+ square miles of game management that really only gets hunted with in 200 yards of the gravel roads cutting through them.

I support the two buck limit with one having at least 4 on one side. NC has a pretty good system with tags. You kill the deer, call DNR and get a number and write it on the tag. If you get caught without tag or number, yo ass gets burned.

As for does, Im biased.

As for corn, maybe the 2 weeks in december you are allowed to bait. At least in Newberry County. By then the bucks are nocturnal and probably only does will show up anyway

my .02 cents.

Not a valid argument. Look at williamsburg and the other low country counties that have "as many or more" deer. They bait. Perhaps you should include # of acres of habitat, hunting pressure, etc.

BTW, did they survey by plane or by using 8 of 12 pairs of boots on the ground? Telecheck? Check in stations. Helicopters? Hunter surveys?

Since there are so many other states that have it right, AND THEY DO, When we fund our DNR and put two biologist on staff for each zone and the proper amount of trads on the ground, and pay them properly, and give them the proper equipment, I and all for it. 100%/

Start with the WMA's and having check stations, dnr presence in the form of green jeans, antler restrictions, and buck limits. That WMA land belongs to all of us. The land my boots are on does not. Never killed more than 3 or 4 bucks in a year, but i dadgum sure don't want a pimping, tamie shooting senator making rules that I need to follow based on one of his constituents griping. Based on research, sure. Not research done over a glass of scotch on taxpayer money.

I have on friend that is a member of a club in Orangeburg, calhoun, Lee, Sumter, and Clarendon, which gives him access to over 20000 acres to hunt. 2 bucks? Three? One buck per 500 acres you hunt?

If we are going to do this based on the swag method, which it most certainly is, shouldn't there be a minimum of 250 acres before you can even get a license? Like Jacks are better to open, but different.

Maybe the take a kid hunting program should start with antler restrictions? "ah, kid, that is a great six point, but we are only shooting trophies." Maybe we should sell lottery tickets with buck tags? That will help out the cough cough, education progam.

Or, maybe just issue tags to people with 75 percent of their teeth in their head. That would surely help dentist.

[jwilliams]

its time for a change..we got nothing to lose...some restriction would only
make our hunting better

Does your club manage the herd slayer? or, do you practice restraint on your own land? I know you do. And you do it better than a lawyer trying to be a public servant in between workers comp cases can do it for the masses.

[FBT]

rogue hunters in Kentucky love their phone in tag system. Here is a typical situation that happens every night during hunting season on the kentucky/ohio border. Kentucky has a rifle season. ohio does not. southern ohio has produced some outstanding deer in recent years. so has kentucky. rogue hunters from kentucky drive into ohio and shoot deer with rifle from truck. call on cell phone and make it a legal kentucky deer. end of story. game warden told us that this shit happens all of the time and that a lot of big "kentucky" bucks are actually killed in ohio.

[3chunter]

bunch of candy ass's on here that have no research backing what "they" want to do!!!!!!!!!

[badfaulkner]

bunch of candy ass's on here that have no research backing what "they" want to do!!!!!!!!!

You're actually barking up the wrong tree. You can deny the validity of the research but it's there. Please read the harvest reports and read how they are conducted.

The fact you don't trust them doesn't invalidate them. Just as a general reminder, denial takes many forms. Some think the earth's still flat, that they drive just fine will drunk, that their Hawaiian shirt makes them attractive for the ladies...meanwhile, a majority sees a different picture.

You can call me a candy ass all day long. I don't judge the kind of man I am by the number of animals I kill. I'm happy only killing one or two hogs and one or two deer a year. I could go on doing what I do at will for the rest of my life. So could you.

I'm not looking at me; I'm looking down the road and boom times never last forever. If conservation makes me a candy-ass, so be it.

[PP&WS]

You're actually barking up the wrong tree. You can deny the validity of the research but it's there. Please read the harvest reports and read how they are conducted.

The fact you don't trust them doesn't invalidate them. Just as a general reminder, denial takes many forms. Some think the earth's still flat, that they drive just fine will drunk, that their Hawaiian shirt makes them attractive for the ladies...meanwhile, a majority sees a different picture.

You can call me a candy ass all day long. I don't judge the kind of man I am by the number of animals I kill. I'm happy only killing one or two hogs and one or two deer a year. I could go on doing what I do at will for the rest of my life. So could you.

I'm not looking at me; I'm looking down the road and boom times never last forever. If conservation makes me a candy-ass, so be it.

you cannot base deer pop. on harvest reports. how many private land deer are actually reported? very close to none.

If we have a declining hunter pop. which there is valid proof of that with license sales. wouldnt that have an effect on harvest reports? all you keep saying is the science is there and yall dont want to believe it, all i am saying is everything you have posted as far as science can b e contradicted. VERY EASILY

[PP&WS]

Dont worry I will, and I will every year. Thank you for staying here, we dont want yahoos like you coming out of state.

As far as why you will only hunt here, Im gonna guess it would be because you dont have the self restraint to let a 120" deer walk by?


Back to being serious. IMO some type of system is needed. No it wont keep everybody from cheating but it will alot of em.

Heres how I like to look at it. If EVERYBODY that hunted in South Carolina went out and klilled like alot of these fellas do, in 5 years I think the deer population would be depleted. I want my kids and grandkids to be able to have fun hunting like we do.

I know a group that killed 96 deer in one season in the upstate. No dogs, no bait piles.

Now do you really think that is neccesary?

Like I said think about if everyone did this

got a questions for you, what do you do for a living?

i have let plenty of 120 class deer walk but if i want to kill one it sure aint going to hurt anything but your feelings

[CWPINST]

Lot of discussion here about what the deer herd is or isn't, but so far I haven't read a post (haven't read all of them though) that discussed fawn recruitment. If you don't know what your fawn recruitment is, you DO NOT know what is going on with your herd or how to manage it. What is your deer density? What is your doe to fawn ratio? Buck to doe ratio? How have you determined it?

I can tell you this......the place that I work is quite large and has been as intensely and scientifically managed for deer (and other wildlife) as any place that I know of in SC. Our deer population was once healthy and abundant, yet in about 5 years it dropped to next to nothing, all because we continued to kill deer like we always had for decades and failed to see the influence of coyotes. All conventional wisdom at the time said that the coyote had very little impact on deer populations. Right now, coyotes are killing about 70-80 percent of our fawns. Since we discovered this we have drastically changed our harvest. We are very slowly recovering, but the deer density is still only 14 deer per sq. mi. Our fawn recruitment is somewhere between .3 and .4 which means that it is taking around 2.5 does to get one fawn to make it to October.

Do you really know what is going on with your deer herd? If you don't, I would suggest that you start measuring it before you shoot yourself out of a deer herd and then blame the DNR.

BTW, if you think that the DNR brought in a whole bunch of coyotes into this state, talk with the hunters in Ga. They have a worse coyote problem than we do. Where did theirs come from?