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Thread: Guy Says Driver Shot JFK

  1. #41
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    Default Debbie Conaway got south knoll shot from Sherry Gutierrez

    The JFK 100


    The fifth shot
    ("Back and to the left")


    Oliver Stone uses the backwards motion of the President's head in the Zapruder film (beginning in frame 314) to argue for an assassin on the grassy knoll. As discussed in the previous section, this argument ignores the forward motion of the head that occurs between frames 312 and 313.
    But putting aside the initial forward motion, is the backwards motion in the Zapruder film evidence of a shot from the knoll?

    The trajectory from the knoll


    "Back and to the left, back and to the left," intones New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison (Kevin Costner) in JFK.

    But look more closely. The President was not thrust "back and to the left"; JFK states it more accurately a few seconds earlier: "This is the key shot. Watch it again. The President going back to his left."(1)

    Back to his left. This is what the Zapruder film shows (see below).

    A comparison of Z frames 315-318

    Does this make a difference? It does. Had the President been thrust to the left, that is, the left side of the limousine, directly into his wife, Jacqueline, this would not be inconsistent with the trajectory of a shot from the grassy knoll.

    But that's not what happened. JFK lurched forcefully to his left, almost directly backwards in his seat.


    In 1992, author Harrison E. Livingstone became the first conspiracy-oriented author to debunk the myth of the grassy knoll gunman. Livingstone writes:


    If [the President] had been hit from the Grassy Knoll or stockade fence, it would have taken off the left side of his head and thrown him violently sideways, and not backward as in the film. The left side of his head was not damaged at all.(2)


    Author and JFK consultant Gus Russo concurs. He stood behind the camera as Oliver Stone filmed the motorcade scene, and has this to say:


    Standing behind the picket fence, it is . . . apparent that if the shot were from the front, then it couldn't have originated behind the fence: the fence is at a 90 degree angle to Kennedy's head -- tilted 34 degrees left of center when hit -- at the time the President was struck. A virtual broadside hit. Such a shot would not have forced JFK's head forward or backward, but side to side, with the bullet exiting near Kennedy's left ear, hitting Jackie. Of course, none of this happened.(3)


    Note also that in the frames of the Zapruder film following the head shot, the wound is towards the front right of the President's head, not in the back, as Oliver Stone claims elsewhere in JFK.
    Compare the following images, depicting the approximate trajectory(4) a bullet would take in order to hypothetically cause the rearward movement of the President, and the approximate trajectory a bullet would take from where Oliver Stone places a gunman on the grassy knoll.


    Harrison Livingstone is not the only conspiracy theorist to acknowledge the disconnect between grassy knoll gunman theories and the "back and to the left" motion apparent in the Zapruder film.

    Sherry Gutierrez is the former head of the Forensic Investigative Unit for St. Charles Parish of the Louisiana Sheriff's Department. She is a member of the Association for Crime Scene Reconstruction and "has testified as an expert in crime scene reconstruction and bloodstain pattern analysis in over 30 judicial districts in the states of Louisiana, Mississippi and Florida." She believes that a shot struck the President from the front, but acknowledges that the President's wounds rule out the possibility that a shot could have come from his right side.



    Gutierrez observes, "Since the grassy knoll is not positioned within the possible locations of the shooter for the headshot, the fatal headshot could not have originated from behind the picket fence."(5)
    http://www.jfk-online.com/jfk100shot5b.html

  2. #42
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    Hey, figurer outer:

    Heard this nugget?: (Ralph Hill was my great uncle)
    Some Relevant Facts About the JFK Assassination

    Phil Brennan
    Wednesday, Nov. 19, 2003

    There's an explosive new book that lays out a very detailed - and
    persuasive - case for the probability that the late President Lyndon Baines
    Johnson was responsible for the assassination of President John F.
    Kennedy.
    I say persuasive because the author, Barr McClellan, was one of LBJ's top
    lawyers, and he provides a lot of information hitherto unknown to the general
    public - much more of which he says is buried in secret documents long
    withheld from the American people.

    "The American public has waited forty years to hear the truth about the JFK
    assassination," McClellan says. "For government agencies to withhold
    critical evidence and not cooperate with the [1998 investigation conducted
    by the Assassination Records Review Board (ARRB)] is a form of
    obstruction of justice. Under the requirements of the Freedom of Information
    Act, the public should be granted access to these documents."

    According to McClellan and Doug Horne, a former ARRB investigator, hundreds
    of relevant documents were withheld from the 1998 investigation into the
    JFK assassination. They believe that these materials are now in the
    possession of the National Archives, relocated from sealed files previously
    controlled by the CIA and FBI.

    McClellan also asked for a formal review of the evidence in his book, "Blood,
    Money & Power: How L.B.J. Killed J.F.K.," which establishes a direct
    connection between LBJ and an individual involved with the assassination
    and cover-up.

    "At this time we need to see what else is missing and what else would be helpful
    to presenting the entire truth," McClellan continued. "The Senate
    Judiciary Committee and the Department of Justice could make the request
    of the National Archives and should do so."

    Now, in normal circumstance I would tend to view this latest explanation of who
    was behind the killing of JFK as exactly that - just another theory among
    dozens. But the circumstances are not normal. Poll after poll establishes that
    an overwhelming majority of Americans believe that the official verdict of the
    Warren Commission is simply not borne out by what little is known publicly
    about the case.

    McClellan's new book adds to those facts and names a second suspect he says
    was a longtime assassin for Lyndon Johnson, whom he portrays as ...
    well, as being homicidal whenever he or his many concealed interests were
    threatened.

    Add to that the incredible inconsistencies in the FBI and Secret Service
    investigations, which reek with the stench of cover-up, and one can't escape
    the conclusion that if LBJ did nothing else in dealing with the aftermath of
    the assassination, he sure as hell clamped a lid on any evidence that
    contradicted the official finding that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone
    gunman acting solely on his own initiative.

    I report all of this as a prelude to revealing what I know about the matter but have
    never before written about - in the beginning, because I had a wife and
    seven children to protect, and since, because I had no reason to revisit the
    matter.

    Let's start with this: McClellan and others before him have discussed the fact that
    LBJ faced some pretty awful prospects, including not only being dumped
    from the 1964 ticket but also spending a long, long time in the slammer as a
    result of his role in the rapidly expanding Bobby Baker case - something few
    have speculated about because the full facts were never revealed by the
    media, which didn't want to know, or report, the truth.

    Sometime in early 1963 I was approached by a young lady with whom I had
    worked on Nixon's 1960 campaign staff. She asked me if I would meet with
    her fiancé, who was in great difficulty - and in danger of being murdered.

    At the time I was on the staff of the House Republican Policy Committee, and
    one of my assignments was to keep my bosses up to date on what was
    going on behind the scenes in the Cold War, analyzing intelligence that
    came our way and otherwise engaging in a never-ending clandestine, back-
    alley war with the Democrat majority.

    I was also writing a Washington column for Bill Buckley's National Review
    magazine under the cover name Cato, a fact known only to the top GOP
    House leadership, which allowed me to do the column as long as I didn't use
    my byline or write it on government time.

    Moreover, in my Cato column I had recently broken the story about the Billie Sol
    Estes scandal, which involved Estes' crony, Lyndon Johnson.
    The young lady knew all that, and that's why she came to me. I agreed to meet
    with her fiancé, a South Carolinian named Ralph Hill. We met at the Market
    Inn, had a couple of martinis, and Hill told me his tale of woe.

    He had come to Washington some time before and was steered to a fellow South
    Carolinian, one Bobby Baker, the powerful secretary of the Senate and a
    very close associate of Vice President Lyndon Johnson.

    To make a long story short, Baker advised Hill to go into the vending machine
    business and promised him he'd arrange to get some major defense
    contractors to install the machines, which vended soft drinks, sandwiches,
    cigarettes and the like.

    There was only one catch - Baker wanted under-the-table payoffs for his part in
    setting up what would be a very lucrative business opportunity with tens of
    thousands of potential customers who worked in defense plants.

    True to his word, Baker got a number of defense contractors to agree to allow Hill
    the exclusive right to install his vending machines on their premises. It was
    an opportunity to print money by the barrel, and with those golden
    contracts in hand, Hill was able to go to the bank and borrow all the funds he
    needed to buy the vending machines and go into business. For a while he
    prospered - as did Baker.

    But whatever he was paying Baker was not enough to satisfy the man who, for all
    intents and purposes, had the Senate under his thumb. He saw that the
    members of the Democrat majority got whatever they wanted - money, bimbos,
    LBJ's help, you name it. They were all in his pocket.

    He could arrange multimillion-dollar contracts for the defense industry or take
    them away if he wanted. He was LBJ's guy and was all-powerful and a very
    dangerous man to have as an enemy, a fact Ralph Hill learned when
    Baker put the bite on him for bigger payoffs.

    The problem for Hill was that he had big payments to make on the loans he'd
    taken out to buy the equipment and set himself up in business, had
    some pretty steep overhead, and simply didn't have enough left over to
    boost his payments to Baker.

    He tried to explain that fact of life to Baker, but the secretary of the United States
    Senate wasn't having any. He simply repeated his demands and threatened
    Hill that if he didn't pay up he'd see that Hill lost all those juicy defense plant
    contracts.

    Bad went to worse, Baker made good on his threats, and Hill was facing
    bankruptcy. Moreover, it was made known to him that if he didn't simply fold
    his tent and go off without making trouble for Baker, he might meet with an
    unfortunate - and probably fatal - accident.

    But Hill was facing bankruptcy and the loss of everything he had, and he simply
    would not give up. He was fighting for his life. And he had the guts to hang in
    there.

    He asked me to help him. But I was completely a creature of the House side of
    Capitol Hill - the Senate side was foreign territory and, I hate to admit it, I
    didn't even have the vaguest idea of who this Bobby Baker, the Senate's
    imperial potentate, was.

    I told Hill that his only way out was to expose Baker publicly, to get the story out
    - once it was public, Baker could not afford to retaliate. I advised Hill to file
    suit against Baker, laying out all the sordid details in the complaint, and once
    he had served Baker, to give me the complaint papers and I'd see that
    the media on the Hill got their hands on copies.

    He did and I did - and I now found myself a potential target, not only of Baker's
    but of the media as well, but that's another story. I was able to get
    only two reporters to write the story - the late Clark Mohlenhoff, one of the
    best investigative reporters in Washington, and one other whose name I
    don't recall.

    For the most part, the Washington press corps kept the lid on the story - until the
    late Bob Humphrey, then the GOP Senate leadership's spokesman, an
    incredibly gifted strategist and a mentor, asked me to tell the story to the late
    Delaware Republican Sen. John Williams, a crusader for good
    government and a crackerjack of an investigator.

    Sen. Williams asked me to introduce him to Hill and I did. They got together with
    some Senate investigators for the GOP minority and Hill told them the whole
    story, including the part played by Vice President Johnson. Williams
    got his committee to launch an investigation and the lid came off.

    A few days later, the attorney general, Bobby Kennedy, called five of
    Washington's top reporters into his office and told them it was now open season
    on Lyndon Johnson. It's OK, he told them, to go after the story they
    were ignoring out of deference to the administration.

    And from that point on until the events in Dallas, Lyndon Baines Johnson's future
    looked as if it included a sudden end to his political career and a few years
    in the slammer. The Kennedys had their knives out and sharpened for him
    and were determined to draw his political blood - all of it.

    In the Senate, the investigation into the Baker case was moving quickly ahead.
    Even the Democrats were cooperating, thanks to the Kennedys, and an
    awful lot of really bad stuff was being revealed - until Nov. 22, 1963.

    By Nov. 23, all Democrat cooperation suddenly stopped. Lyndon would serve a
    term and a half in the White House instead of the slammer, the Baker
    investigation would peter out and Bobby Baker would serve a short sentence and
    go free. Dallas accomplished all of that.

    Sometimes I wonder: If I had not met Hill and convinced him to go public with the
    story, and the Bobby Baker case and Lyndon's part in it had not come out as
    a result, would Dallas not have happened? I don't like to think about that.

    And that's why I am convinced that McClellan is on to something. I hope he
    persists. There's an incredible amount of sordid government corruption that
    needs to be aired in public. As McClellan says, it's about time that the
    American people learned the truth about the death of John Fitzgerald
    Kennedy.

    And a lot more.

    * * * * * *
    Phil Brennan is a veteran journalist who writes for NewsMax.com. He is editor &
    publisher of Wednesday on the Web (http://www.pvbr.com) and was
    Washington columnist for National Review magazine in the 1960s. He also
    served as a staff aide for the House Republican Policy Committee and
    helped handle the Washington public relations operation for the Alaska
    Statehood Committee which won statehood for Alaska. He is also a trustee
    of the ******* Heritage Institute and a member of the Association of Former
    Intelligence Officers.

    He can be reached at phil@newsmax.com.
    "Rivers and the inhabitants of the watery elements are for wise men to contemplate and for fools to pass by without consideration" -Izaak Walton

  3. #43
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    Default Right front entrance caused right rear exit

    20) NURSE DIANA HAMILTON BOWRON: greeted the limousine with a stretcher. She claimed, "...the back of his head...well, it was very bad--you know..." Arlen Specter failed to elucidate what she meant by the "back of the head" being very bad. (emphasis added) (WC V6:136 Within 48 hours of the assassination the British press relayed a second hand account from Bowron through her mother: "...there was blood all over this neck and shoulders. There was a gaping wound in the back of his head." (Livingstone, Killing the Truth , p. 180) Author Livingstone corresponded and spoke by phone with Bowron in 1993. He reported that Bowron claimed, "I first saw the large wound in the back of the head in the car. When we were preparing the body for the coffin I had the opportunity to examine it more closely. It was about five inches in diameter and there was no flap of skin covering it, just a fraction of skin along part of the edges of bone. There was, however, some hair hanging down from the top of the head, which was caked with blood, and most of the brain was missing. The wound was so large I could almost put my whole left fist inside." (Livingstone, Killing the Truth, p. 181) She also said, "...The hole was basically almost the size of a saucer, and sort of from the occiput. So there was quite a reasonable amount missing from the top as well." (Livingstone, Killing the Truth, p. 190) When asked her opinion of the nature of the defect in the rear of the skull, Bowron told Livingstone, "Well, to me it was an exit hole." (Livingstone, Killing the Truth, p. 192) Livingstone asked, "Did you see any entry hole in the back of the head?". "I assumed and I still do that that was an exit wound." Bowron answered. ( Killing the Truth , p. 195). Bowron prepared a drawing depicting the skull wound as she saw it for Livingstone which bears a striking similarity to the diagram of the wound prepared by Robert McClelland, MD and agreed to by Paul Peters, MD ( High Treason in group of images following p. 23 in hard cover edition.) It shows a defect squarely in the occiput on the right side; a second diagram depicting the skull from above shows the right rear quadrant of the skull absent with the notation "missing". (Killing the Truth,in images following p. 368)


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    Default Grassy snow job by ollie & arlen debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by hello people View Post
    So what accounts for his head pitching back and to the left if the driver shot him from front left...wouldn't his head have gone back and to the right?
    Back and to the left is deceiving. He was leaning to the left along with his head turned leftward somewhat. He went straight back from his left leaning position and naturally slumped to the left after the shot.

    Right before the shot.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBrother View Post
    Hey, figurer outer:

    Heard this nugget?: (Ralph Hill was my great uncle)
    have you seen the stuff this figerer outer has?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tater View Post
    Your heart ain't like your balls, ya only got one...
    All you need is a body built for discipline and a mind that can justify so much apparent self-abuse.

  6. #46
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    Default Jfk Lancer's Debbie Conaway exposed by information age

    Quote Originally Posted by Smersh
    But all you've done 7forever is post a screenshot of links to your blog etc showing the links to what you've already posted, followed by an animated gif of two blokes laughing in the "JFK" movie.

    How does that answer this :

    Quote Originally Posted by porsteamboy
    JFK Lancer Speaking of Debra Conway and JFK Lancer, this article is on her web site and is listed under MYTHS.
    :?:
    Very simple. Debbie had to know that Greer passed the gun in Zapruder but may not have known his left arm crossed in nix or muchmore. She simply cheated by not showing that Greer had both hands off the wheel and passed a covered object.

    Greer's left arm crosses with the headshot, completely destroying this pathetic woman's attempt at disproving a visual fact.


    JFK Lancer

  7. #47
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    figurer outer is an internet troll that googles kennedy assassination threads on forums then swoops in to post up all this stuff he has stored.
    "Rivers and the inhabitants of the watery elements are for wise men to contemplate and for fools to pass by without consideration" -Izaak Walton

  8. #48
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    Default The grassy snow job & crackpot jimmy files

    Quote Originally Posted by gus54 View Post
    In a little searching I found some information on James Files. I don't know why I never heard of him before, but it seems that he may be telling the truth that he was the killer on the grassy knoll. Here are a couple of video interviews and there are others as well. (I apologize if this has been brought up already. I haven't had time to read through all 80 pages of this thread.)



    There is one really big problem with Files. He's lying for sure because the right shot shot has been disproven by simple geometry. There has been a solid consensus for decades about the right rear exit but outright disinfo about the entrance wound.

    FROM THE MOVIE.


    GREER'S ANGLE WAS PERFECT because he's the goon who killed jfk.


    PERFECT REAR GAPE at moment of impact. The red blotch is not on the right side when his skull gapes open and that fact debunks the right side entrance cleanly.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBrother View Post
    figurer outer is an internet troll that googles kennedy assassination threads on forums then swoops in to post up all this stuff he has stored.
    I just didn't know if you had seen any of his stuff. he's got one or two clips....
    Quote Originally Posted by Tater View Post
    Your heart ain't like your balls, ya only got one...
    All you need is a body built for discipline and a mind that can justify so much apparent self-abuse.

  10. #50
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    Nope, never heard of him. Maybe the clue is in his signature line.
    "Rivers and the inhabitants of the watery elements are for wise men to contemplate and for fools to pass by without consideration" -Izaak Walton

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    Default Better view of rear gape with dislodged scalp comparison

    Dr. Humes described the mess at the top as dislodged scalp. He also down played the entrance over the right eye as a contusion. Some theorists said jfk went somewhere in between Parkland and Bethesda. If so, some type of debridement may have taken place to cover the wound. This area is still visible and metal fragments were recovered behind the right eye and showed up in x-rays.

    The right rear is clearly missing here and many witnesses saw jfk the way he lies here. He didn't have to be on his stomach because the hole was on the right rear. Notice the small flap on the right side compared to that fake mess in Zapruder.

    A better view of rear gape and compare the dislodged scalp. It's similar.

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    Default Stone's film reveals rear gape...thanks Ollie...it was the driver

    You can see the alteration close up the hole real quick and it shows itself again in the frames around 335.


    Frame 337 shows Jackie's freak out when she sees the hole.

  13. #53
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    Sweet Fuck.
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn View Post
    Nobody ever became a hero in a comfortable setting. Sometimes you got to nut it up and do work.

  14. #54
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    Default The old man in red shirt saw Greer shoot Kennedy

    Quote Originally Posted by shivablast View Post
    Also, if greer did shoot JFK, how come none of the spectators (as can be seen in your gifs) were all like "holy shit, the driver had a gun!"?
    The old man on the stairs literally points at Greer after he shoots Kennedy and then drops his arms as if to say, "I just saw the government kill Kennedy and there's not a damn thing I can do about it." You can also see Greer's left arm/elbow coming down after he shot jfk.


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    The illusion is that Greer does NOT shoot jfk but he does because of clear evidence. The illusion is supposed to be that they are simple reflections but, are easily proven fake, most importantly by showing his left arm cross in Nix.

    The Zfilm has been proven altered in the most important way. Greer's arm and hand are not supposed to be crossing but they cross in both other films. Film alteration has been proven because of the nix film which is where this case stands currently. The illusion that Greer shoots jfk in Zapruder is proven a reality by seeing his arm cross in Nix. Of course the altered films can be used as evidence as long as it can be explained why certain alterations were committed and what they represent. Greer passes the covered gun between frames 242-278 and the same object/gun is seen in 319 after the shot.

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    40 post in less than two hours...........you going for the course record?

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    Default Greer's only defense is a bust

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulthompsn View Post
    I stand by my initial research as to the major upper level players.

    The inside the car shot in my opinion if accurate does not preclude an accidental discharge of the firearm.

    I do not have instant recall at the moment but I seem to remember some vague accusations regarding the upper level people subbing inexperienced guys on the detail.

    The shots from behind are a given. Also other shots in the plaza. The truth is always stranger than fiction.

    In this scenario they had a "hit" in the back from long range. They had a hit from the front still. Also potentially from the front hitting the Governor. Both he and his wife swore until they day they died that shots came from the front. In the crossfire it would be understandable if the agent driving freaks out and pulls a revolver and attempts a shot to the rear. Ask yourself what would you do if you were in that drivers seat with a weapon at the ready?

    Whether intentional or unintentional this scenario is supported by the actions afterward whereby the car is "wiped". If an agent was involved they HAD to cover that up immediately. I should clarify each participant AFTER the fact has no need to be "in on" the murder at all to cover up after the fact with zeal and complicity. Prevention of an open revolution, prevention of WWIII, general career CYA are all the potential unintended consequences if the truth gets out.
    Greer shooting Kennedy by accident is a patently absurd theory but really is the only defense if Greer ever took the stand. He would admit to shooting jfk by accident in the commission of shooting back at the assassins and that explains why he lied about even seeing Kennedy let alone saying he turned only once. He died in 85. The buffoon's on the right.

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    Should we ban Freakshow here or keep him as a pet and somebody to keep Mergie company?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JABIII View Post
    Should we ban Freakshow here or keep him as a pet and somebody to keep Mergie company?
    I figured him for Mergie's alias

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    No matter what any person thought they knew about his case, they now know for certain that Greer killed jfk by learning that the left hand coming off the wheel at frame 304 in Zapruder is fake.
    His hand is really by his shoulder in this sequence.

    Fake hand starts with two dots.

    I am the first researcher on the planet who has proven Zfilm alteration by showing Greer's left arm crossing in nix.

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