the blackeye for LE topic

[*Crippler*]

Thank you for deleting it. That topic made me sick and disappointed in some of you. I will post up later explaining the real story of how drug seizures work. [img]graemlins/shakehead.gif[/img]

[Fish]

Sure do hate to disappoint you Crippler, but it's our duty and our right to question everything that our government does. Law enforcement is part of that government and I for one DO NOT automatically think of them as sacrosanct nor do I give them the benefit of the doubt in all instances. Why? Because LEOs fuck up sometimes. They push too hard sometimes. The radar is on. You stepped into that walk and you should realize that public scrutiny is part of it. If you're not in tune with that, I suggest you find another job. Perhaps one where your delicate sensabilities won't be so easily offended. Feedback from the general public is a powerful oversight tool and it's one that I'm not willing to give up because you might disapprove.

[Tuffy]

We are surely waiting to gain that insight, but Fish is right in that it's whether-or-not we (the public) are disappointed in YOU (LE) that matters.

Some percentage of your ranks are to be admired and we should be ashamed that you are so grossly underpaid and underappreciated. There is another percentage of your ranks that should be fired and/or jailed and/or institutionalized and any LEO that doesn't recognize that or the need for constant monitoring by just about everyone internal and external is in danger of demonstrating which group he/she is in.

You can't police if you can't self-police your own group and, in the long run, you won't be allowed to exert authority in a free society. It won't matter if the state-of-society pressured you into that group isolation and hatred for the public. As long as there is ONE honest citizen out here, it's your obligation to treat everyone as if they are THAT person because they just might be. Given the pressures of your profession, it's a pretty good bet that the very last honest person won't be a LEO, so it's real easy for us to resent it greatly when we see evidence that too many of you think that the ONLY honest ones are LEOs already and that YOU get to decide how to handle each one.

I deleted the post because I want to support LE and felt like I was taking the initiative in harming them with the post and that would be WRONG of me. However, the quickest way to erode that support is to seem indignant at ANY questioning of the motives, actions, or methods of LE. By resurrecting the topic with the "we shouldn't be questioned" attitude, you're in danger of doing more damage than any detractor could. You surely don't want to start hearing anecdotal stories and experiences with LE, do you?

[DUCKMAN]

Excellent post Tuffy! Hate you deleted the original one!

I do have a personal and professional experience with the Florence Sheriff's Department and their "work" on I-95!

[Turd Ferguson]

by being a cop it doesnt mean that you do a damn thing more for society than the local crack dealer- the uniform and badge aint shit unless the person wearing it cares about making a social difference in the lives of others- to serve and protect??? whom are you to serve? the public- the last dicknosed cop that stopped me was such an asshole- glad he couldnt "stick me" with anything- he tried-

- he was sorry he had to give me a ticket- that was 2 lies right there to begin with- what a disgrace

[Swamp Rat]

Law enforcement officers are, like any other occupation, a cross section of society. Background checks and pre-employment screening keep most riff raff out, but some will inevitably get through. That is an unfortunate fact of life. There are bad cops, bad politicians, bad government accountants, bad government doctors, bad soldiers, you name it. They are all public officials in some way, by virtue of being paid by our tax dollars. Bad cops get a great deal more scrutiny, and they should.

There is a public expectation of a higher level of conduct from law enforcement officers. I think that is appropriate. If a police officer breaks the law, especially in a manner that is grossly criminal, he should be called out.

As a law enforcement officer, I respect that. My boss has a way of dealing with it that is effective... he arrests them. He doesn't just fire them. He wants to make sure they won't dishonor the badge again at another department. In many cases, a press release gets sent out.

Gladly, such cases are few and far between. As a group, I hold the officers I work with every day in high esteem, and would go through the gates of hell to arrest Satan himself with any of them. We have had our bad incidents, and they have been dealt with. We learn from it and move on. The best thing we can do to maintain respect from the public is to continue to do our job effectively and with an eye on what our mission is... protecting and serving.

There are many expectations placed on us by the public. They expect us to be perfect... and the only person that walked the earth that holds that title died 1,974 years ago.

Are there abrasive and bad tempered officers out there? Sure. And they make a lasting negative impression on many. Many of those officers don't last long in the profession... a few do.

It's sad that many people, when they think of police officers, aren't thinking of the doorways they have to go through in darkened crack houses, the cars they approach on traffic stops not knowing if it's a soccer mom or someone that just axe murdered their family... They think of one rude comment a cop made when they were being checked on a waterway, or the cop they saw going 9 MPH over on the interstate, or the video they saw of a criminal Chicago cop beating a woman in a bar.

Negative impressions last longer than positive ones. The two officers that were murdered in Moncks Corner a few days ago will be old news to most people in this state in a matter of weeks, if not days, in spite of the horror that was visited on them (and the non-LEO's that were riding with them, including one of their girlfriends). We in the community will feel that loss a lot longer.

But the bad comment or the speeding cop... they will be remembered a lot longer. Neither is acceptable, don't get me wrong, but, as has been pointed out to us time and again... the public LOOKS for bad things to say or see about law enforcement officers. I have my own theories as to why this is, but they may be off base, so I won't go into it here.

A lot of public perception starts in youth. How you were brought up to see police officers. When I work at the State Fair, I see it every.... single... day. The 5% of parents that bring their kid over to meet you, explaining that "this man is here to help you. You can trust him. If you get lost, find a man in uniform like this and he will help you find us"... THEN there's the other 95% that you hear saying "If you don't do what you are told, that man will arrest you..." - Yeah, Ma, nice thing to tell your 4 year old...

It's uphill battle.

[JABIII]

Very, very good post Swamp Rat.

[daddy duck]

Good post Swamp Rat, I for one don't and least try not to judge a man unless I have worn the same shoes. I would suggest other people do the same. I did not read the orginal post and can not comment on that post. But being in Law Enforcement for the past 19 years, I have made a few mistakes along the way and will more than likely make a few more, however I am man enough to admit them and learn from them, and even to appoligize. But there are two sides to every story, I just hope that both were given in the orginal post.

[daddy duck]

Oh by the way, I never did see the post of the two officers killed in Moncks Corner............doesn't anybody care.
my prayers to the familys of those Officers

[DUCKMAN]

Good post Swamp Rat and you work for an excellent Department and Sheriff!

[Tuffy]

That was the right comment from the right source.

I am sorry that I had not already noted my prayers for the families and coworkers of the officers recently killed in the line of duty. They deserve much more from us.

For the record, the original post was not about bad conduct by individual officers, but, rather, concerned policy issues of interstate interdiction efforts. Those individual actions and attitudes are far too costly, though. I don't know how small a percentage of LE might actually be "bad", but we can often feel ourselves to be at their mercy because it might just be the one we are dealing with. It doesn't take many of those to make us cynical about them all, as Swamp implied. That is a terrible shame for the public AND LE.

I'm always greatly heartened when I speak with officers like Swamp or the Lt. that returned my call yesterday. On the other hand, I seriously believe that there are officers carrying "drop bags", commandeering recovered stolen property, and otherwise using their office for personal gain. As noted, that would be just a part of human nature. What SCARES me is the belief that SOME (edited by Tuffy) of this kind of thing is condoned within the ranks because of a natural (and basically appropriate) sense of brotherhood.

[SwampDunkey]

I had a reply but typed too slow. Thanks Double D and SwampRat. Glad someone said it.

[Turd Ferguson]

Great Post Swamp Rat- need more like you- Keep up the good work

[Catdaddy]

Wish I had seen the original post.

I just happen to get on I-95 yesterday at the 164 mile marker. Between there and the 170 mile marker there were 9 sheriffs vehicles and 1 city police car......wtf, that's 10 miles outside of the city limits.

They were all on the southbound side which to me means they are looking for money, not drugs. Every vehicle had somebody pulled.


Here's the problem. My subdivision has had 9 breakins,5 houses shot with bb guns,4 cases of mail being stolen from the mailbox, and 3 cases of pure vandalism in the last 60 days, and I have not seen ONE Sherif's vehicle day or night patroling. They have not caught one person yet. The neighboring subdivisions at experiencing the same thing. We have crime running wild in Florence and all they want to do is shake down southbound travelers on I-95 for money.

Here's a news flash to the Florence Sheriff's department.........the folks on their way from New York to Florida are not the ones breaking in the homes in Florence. Get your ass in town where the TAXPAYERS NEED YOU!

If Operation Intercept is that profitable, let's spin off the sheriff's department make them self supportive, and reduce my taxes.

We can hire our own security service with the tax savings.

[Tuffy]

I'm afraid that was the gist of my original post, CD. Most of the vehicles working this project were from jurisdictions outside of Florence, though. Even Lake City was represented.

CD's take on this was the original point with only some anecdotal allusion to individual processes. It was just a problem doing that without seeming to come down on LE without really knowing the specific circumstances. On the other hand, that can't be a reason to look the other way. I think other nations have been guilty of that sort of thing before.

A news comference is scheduled for tomorrow to report the results of this project and should be available on the Florence Morning News website by the weekend.

It's really a tough topic for me. I am both really bothered by the nature of this kind of activity and very reluctant to say things not in support of LE, in general. It's difficult for me to balance the two thoughts and reconcile the respect and suspicions that LE create in my own mind.

[Catdaddy]

It is profiling at it's worst.This type of enforcement is out of control.

They are after the money because they get to keep 80-85% of it. There was not one vehicle(and never is) on the northbound side.

Multi department task force or not, come to the Honda exit anyday and see 3-4 sheriff's vehicles doing the same thing.

[Palmetto Bug]

Giving law enforcements entities any kind of an extra profit motive for doing their job is a fundamentally flawed concept. We are not winning the war on drugs and some of the tactics being used are worse than the original problem.

Most cops are great but I have met more than my share of the ones that sort everyone into three groups; cops, robbers, and suspects.

[Tuffy]

Isn't there something inherently frightening about this?


http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/11972347.htm
Posted on Fri, Jun. 24, 2005

Fighting crime pays
Forfeiture laws in drug cases have provided a boon to S.C. law enforcement
agencies
By J.R. GONZALES
Staff Writer

The drug trade has been good to Ridgeland.

Itšs not that the Jasper County town of 2,500 welcomes the flow of drug traffic along I-95.

But the townšs 13-member Police Department has benefited through federal forfeiture laws that allow the agency to receive most of the drug proceeds seized in its jurisdiction.

Since September 2002, the department has received $2.85 million in drug-seizure funds, Ridgeland Police Chief Richard Woods said.

With the help of the federal Drug Enforcement Administration, small towns along major thoroughfares, used to transport drugs and cash between Florida and Texas and the North, are filling their coffers with drug money.

Federal laws allow authorities to seize drug dealersš property ‹ including cars, cash and houses ‹ used to facilitate crime, and local police get to keep 80 percent of the proceeds.

The DEAšs Operation Pipeline program, a nationwide highway crackdown that focuses on private vehicles used to transport drugs, has long been active in such states as New Mexico, New Jersey, Illinois, Florida and Texas, where
major arteries for drug trafficking are located.

But as Atlanta has grown as a primary drug-distribution center, towns in South Carolina, Georgia and other Southern states are patrolling a portion of the interstate to nab drug traffickers.

From Tasers to new police cars, the Ridgeland department has used seizure oney to purchase items that might not be available through city funds.

łIf we need something, we pretty much get it,˛ Woods said.

Recently, the department received a $500,000 check from the government for efforts in stopping a Colombian national who was heading to Miami from New York in October with a suitcase containing $640,000.

Woods said he would like to use that money to renovate the police station and put in new holding cells, a more secure evidence room, locker rooms and showers. The departmentšs annual budget is $3 million, according to town
manager Jason Taylor.

SHARING THE WEALTH

Other S.C. agencies have benefited from federal asset forfeiture laws, just not as much as those along I-95.

łThe big-dollar checks are known to be around the interstate, around I-95,˛ said John Ozaluk, the agent in charge of Drug Enforcement Administration offices in South Carolina.

The Florence County Sheriffšs Office has collected more than $750,000 since 2003, according to figures provided by the federal Department of Justice.

łThose funds are extremely important to us,˛ Sheriff Kenney Booth said.

The money has allowed the department to purchase 16 police cars.

The drug money was used recently to pay for a conference on methamphetamine at Francis Marion University, Booth said.

łWešre just doing all we can to fight and combat the drug problem,˛ Booth said.

Some agencies have benefited through similar state forfeiture laws, by which they work with the state attorney general. Lexington County, for example, has received about $500,000 in drug funds since the 2003-04 fiscal year. The
agency has spent more than one-third of that on training, surveillance equipment and uniforms.

Since 2003, Lexington County has received nearly $15,000 from the federal program; Richland County has received more than $150,000, according to the Justice Department.

Forfeiture laws have been around since Colonial times, but in 1970 Congress enacted the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO), the first federal criminal forfeiture statute that allows for the seizure of property ‹ primarily money ‹ obtained through racketeering.

Law enforcement officials say forfeiture laws are powerful tools in the war against drugs. But opponents argue they are tantamount to theft and open the door to racial profiling.

No arrest is necessary for forfeitures larger than $5,000, so long as the money can be linked to drug activity, according to Agent Bill Grant, a DEA spokesman in Washington.

łNormally, we try to help local law enforcement wherever we can. If they call us, we will work with them in every state of the country,˛ Grant said. łMostly, we try to help them find a drug link to any money they discover.˛

However, it is not necessary to work with the DEA. If a police department makes a bust on its own and processes the case locally, it can keep 100 percent of the proceeds, officials said.

Some cities have been embroiled in bitter fighting over control of the money. Others have been forced to submit to monitoring by the Justice Department.

Last month, the State Law Enforcement Division was asked to investigate former Colleton County Sheriff Allan Beach on allegations he improperly
spent millions of dollars in federal drug-seizure funds.

While seized money cannot be used to hire personnel, it can be used for police training, equipment, vehicles and, in the case of Hogansville, Ga., a new police station, a walking trail and a hefty donation to a youth group.

łThis has really changed things for us. We have the best equipment and the best-trained officers in this part of the state,˛ city manager Randy Jordan said.

In Refugio County, Texas, officials seized enough money to build a police station and a jail. In Sulphur, La., a small town near Lake Charles, police seized more than $6 million in four years by patrolling a five-mile stretch
of I-10 five days a week.

Police in Hogansville, a one-stoplight town of about 2,600 people, recently moved from a four-room house they once shared with the Fire Department to a 12,650-square-foot building that cost $400,000.

Woods, who joined the Ridgeland Police Department in August 2002, is convinced his departmentšs efforts are making a dent in the drug trade.

łIf youšre going to hurt the drug trafficking, this is where you hurt them,˛ he said. łYoušre just absolutely killing them when youšre taking their money.˛

Knight Ridder-Tribune News Service contributed to this story.

[JABIII]

Criticism mounts against federal warden

By Lee Harstad
Capital Journal Staff


PIERRE - A top state official is asking that a federal game warden be relieved of his duties in the state.

The State of South Dakota's Chief of Staff Rob Skjonsberg ordered the state Game, Fish & Parks Department to stand down, or not work with, Robert Prieksat, a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service law enforcement agent stationed in Pierre.

This move stems from complaints that Prieksat is going beyond his boundaries as an officer. Skjonsberg

said he has gone too far and is doing more harm than good.

"Our conservation officers have a stand-down order and we will not participate with that federal agent," Skjonsberg said. "If there is some type of situation that absolutely warrants our participation with him in the field, the expectation is that Game, Fish & Parks secretary Vonk will have to approve each and every instance."

Prieksat was unaware of the stand-down order on Monday when contacted by The Capital Journal and further contact attempts were not returned Tuesday.

Skjonsberg ordered the stand-down after receiving numerous complaints about Prieksat from area sportsmen. He said long-standing complaints center around Prieksat's tact while working and checking sportsmen in the field. Last week, concerned sportsmen met informally to discuss ways to better the situation. While there are a number of upset sportsmen in the area, many are scared to tell their stories in fear of the repercussions.

One local sportsman and guide, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he believes he would be singled out in the fields, said the agent "treats you like a criminal, bullies you around, and makes you feel like a criminal. I shouldn't be scared to death when this guy pulls up."

This sportsman talked of how the agent would watch while he was goose hunting, and once the geese started to come into the decoys, he would drive in to the field, scaring away the geese, and check for any violations.

The sportsman also talked of the warden's demeanor, particularly when it comes to writing tickets, saying he was told it is not the agent's job to educate hunters but to write tickets, and cited examples of how tickets were written on hearsay.

Alex Falk, a landowner near Joe Creek, has had multiple dealings with Prieksat.

"When he interacts with hunters, he immediately takes the stance that they must be doing something to break the law. He takes a very adversarial stance when interacting with anyone, landowners or sportsmen," Falk said. "He has the power of judge, jury and executioner, because he carries a badge, gun and ticket book, and he has the U.S. Attorney's ear. He isn't able to accurately interpret the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service regulations and is very closed-minded."

Skjonsberg has taken an interest in the situation because of the number of complaints he's received. "I have heard nothing but controversy and complaints surrounding this particular agent. And I'm tired of it," Skjonsberg said. "It seems he has no ability to use any sort of discretion, and there needs to be. I'm all for catching the bad guys. I'm a sportsman and I don't hunt with poachers, and if I were approached in the field or on the water with the same demeanor I've been hearing about, I would be complaining as well."

Sen. Bob Gray, R-Pierre, said that based on the stories and circumstance, the stand-down order was the right move to make.

"One concerning thing is that we need law enforcement - whether it's a police officer or a conservation officer - to use some discretion in going after real concerns."

Skjonsberg is in his fifth year as Gov. Mike Rounds' chief of staff and believes Prieksat's actions are working against what state Game, Fish & Parks conservation officers have been doing in terms of public relations.

"The vast majority of hunters and anglers are abiding by the law, but he apparently doesn't see it that way and seemingly offends virtually everyone he encounters. This is not a reflection of what our state conservation officers are doing. My problem is that people do not differentiate between the two organizations," Skjonsberg said. "If he wants to create himself an island because of the way he works, he can be an island unto himself - all by himself. The last thing we want is to scare people away from outdoor activities."

In terms of what the next step will be, Gray said, "Perhaps the easiest thing would be for the public to send a message to this officer, saying that while we expect him to enforce our game and fish laws, we also expect him to use some discretion. Beyond that, I don't know what the answer is but we can send a clear message as to what we expect of our local officers."

Skjonsberg said there are probably just two things that could happen.

"A lot of people won't accept anything besides reassignment. In lieu of that, there needs to be a pretty extreme about-face in regards to how he goes about doing his job. And based on what I know, I seriously doubt that's possible," he said. "Based on the complaints I have received, we have legitimate reason to go to our congressional delegation and to his supervisor. I'm not sure what other options there are, but things just can't continue like they are today. If I can't influence some kind of change in behavior or geography - he better get used to working by himself."

[tradorion]

My only gripe about the whole law enforcement vs. citizen discussion is along the lines of one of Swamp Rat's comments and is summarized by this simple statement: "ONE Oh Shit!! kills TEN Atta Boys!!"

Thus everyone remembers the guy who pissed them off or handled their case in a less than social manner.

For some reason nobody ever seems to comment much on the day-day decent things that the majority of the cops do-- not just the stuff that they get paid for but the efforts to go out of their way to truly help others.

Are all cops (ANY COPS- city, county, state, fed- regular LE or game wardens etc) good guys?? Hell no- but then again all people aren't good guys either. In construction, the military, forestry, and now law enforcement i have seen guys who were true gentlemen and guys who were trash.

It saddens me that with all the good the majority of officers do, the majority of the public has such a poor perception of us.

T