Quail problems

[rp]

And I will not include ants...

I had a client in the office last Friday morning. He has had a lot of experience with quail. He was/is associated with the Tall Timbers quail studies for 25 years. His specialty is/was quail diseases. He hunts quail. He knows quail.

During his study, fowl pox came onto the scene in the birds they were studyind. They fianlly traced the source to a neighboring plantation which was a smaller place. This smaller place released birds so they could hunt 7 days a week. Somewhere they had picked up birds that had been vacinated against the fowl pox.

When the birds are vacinated against fowl pox, they become carriers to birds that are not. From what I am told the fowl pox appears on the birds eyes & mouth(beak). The sick bird stays with the flock and spreads the disease. THE PROBLEM IS released birds spread this to wild birds which they can't vacinate anyway.

And once you get it in your pens, you have to maintain vacinated birds or they will contract the disease. Then they are released, not shot, and spread it to the wild birds. The wild birds get sick and die.

It took about 8 years before the fowl pox ran its course around Tall Timbers.

Another reason to not release pen birds, at least those vacinated. I wonder about this and ducks.

I won't go into the conversation about today's farming practises vs quail, or the ants.

Just thought you would like to know.

[murraywader]

Tamies............

[SCLAND&TIMBER]

pretty much what murraywader said...

put a few in a pillowcase and twirl it around about 10 times and dump em' out under a bush, show up 3 or 4 hours later and you have yourself a quail hunt

[HUNTINDUCS]

Otherwise known as a "kick and shoot."

[Palmetto Bug]

It's damn hard to train a bird dog without pen raised quail. And once you get him trained, there's damn little reason to have a pointing dog without pen raised quail.

So what's the moral of the story; use vaccinated birds, unvaccinated birds, or give up on having pointing dogs?

[ECOPREDATOR]

Anytime you start releasing pen-raised anything its a bad ideal.....it should be used as a last resort when nothing else will save the population.

It took almost 40 years to convince people that releasing pen-raised turkeys was not the answer to restoration. Once they started concentrating their efforts on transferring wild caught birds the populations really took off.

Do you know if this data on fowl pox is printed up anywhere in the literature? I sure would like to have it for the NWTF library. I'm good friends with the Tall Timbers folks so I can get it if it's available.

And I SURE could have used it when I was a wildlife manager in Missouri. I had 30,000 acres of intensively managed quail properties and had lots of wild coveys. We had numerous of field trial clubs that released birds on our WMAs. I always had a deep suspicion that disease could be a BIG problem with these birds.

The current state quail biologist out there would LOVE to see this data if he hasn't already.

[BigBrother]

That is about the best explanation I have heard yet...

Would also love to see some documentation...

[ECOPREDATOR]

P Bug,

That is a GREAT question. I found myself in the same quandry when I moved to SC.

My old GSP will be 12 yrs old tomorrow. I've been turning birds out for him about 3 or 4 times a year and you are right, hunting wild birds is just about a lost cause.

I really don't know the correct answer to your question and I'm a wildlife biologist..........I ended up getting labradors and started doing the HRC thing....throwing dead ducks up in the air doesn't spread much to the wild ones!

I would lean toward using only unvaccinated birds for training and try not to leave any in the field (easier said than done)......I need to poll my wildlife buddies on this one because it may not be that simple.

Great question.

[rp]

I will find out about the data. The gentleman was a vet in Florence for a while after he had done that and now practises out of Congaree/Pelion area. He rarely gets on a computer himself so I can't just send him an email. I can call but he won't have the resources there to look it up. I will check.

I would say to use unvacinated birds but once you have used the vacinated ones, you have the problem and almost use vacinated birds to avoid the illness.

On another note, I know there are programs out there to encourage farmers to allow buffers & hedgerows, but why won't they do it? I know about lost revenue, but everything shows buffers are beneficial to all. Why won't they try it?

[BigBrother]

rp, farming is a business. Any like any other business, a farmer has to make money.

Land is an expensive, nondepreciating asset that if not utilized, is wasted money.

[rp]

I realize that. But most land at the edge of the field is not as productive. Whether it is in the shade of trees or washed out from gulleys. A buffer can help with production. That has been shown and the governement will pay.

[wskinner]

The old saying is, a farmer plants his first ten rows for the deer, hogs, etc.. While those areas you mentioned do produce less, they still produce and as long as they have something on them they will get pushed through the header the same as the rest. While I agree with what you are saying rp, many people are not willing to look at it that way. They are only happy when they are seeing green stuff: soybeans, peanuts, money, etc.

[rp]

rp, farming is a business. Any like any other business, a farmer has to make money.

Land is an expensive, nondepreciating asset that if not utilized, is wasted money.

I am very aware of that point, but the government makes payments available for leaving buffers. They don't plant, they don't harvest and they get money. considering the revenue for a bushel of beans, how much can they get off of those buffers??

I have talked with plenty of farmers. More of them say "There are no quail anyway" and I bet they do not hear them riding around in their air conditioned John Deeres or their Ford Supercrew 250's with the windows up. I know where there are 4 coveys on a farmer's farm that he won't believe me about. Instead he leased the shooting rights to someone to drop and kick birds.

[rp]

The results of the pox in quail are reported in something called The SE Quail Disease Study, or something like that. The fellas that came form the NWTF to meet us at Salty's were aware of this study. The folks doing the study believed the tainted birds came from a plantation called Mistletoe. They believe they traced the problem birds to the actual producer.

[cusportsman]

Around what year did this outbreak occur at Mistletoe? I am very familiar with Mistletoe Plantation that is if we are talking about the one in Thomasville, GA. I hate to hear that this stemmed from there, but this may have been after it was sold to new ownership.

[rp]

The study took place from the late 60's to the early 80's as I understand. It was during that time period. I do not know if there is more than one Mistletoe.

[cusportsman]

Don't believe there is, my grandpa worked on Mistletoe for a while and my dad grew up there until they moved when he was 12. That would have been 1970 then. Dad said he doesn't remember them ever releasing any quail at that time because no one around raised quail. That is about the time ownership changed and about 2500 acres of Mistletoe was given to Tall Timbers. Dad said that grandpa tried to by 350 acres in a corner that they lived on, but the new owners just gave it away to someone else.

Wish my grandpa and his brother had bought the 1600 acres they were offered for $3500 with a pre-Civil War plantation home. They said that was too much money and no one would pay that. Mistletoe later bought it.

We've got a lot of family that live real close to there. They gated off part of the dirt road that we used to go down to get to the family farm, have to go a little farther up to the paved road that goes over to the dirt road. It is a pretty cool plantation to drive by and see though.