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Thread: H4820 Turkey Bill, Senate Subcommitte next Thursday.....

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  1. #1
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    Simple math, boys. Later the start date the more hens get bred. NC has been pushing the opener back and back on the recommendation of our biologists (one of them being my best friend) for several years and the data shows it’s helping tremendously. NC starts April 13th this year.

    And while I’ll agree habitat loss (cutting down hardwoods forests to make room to house Yankees, and clear-cutting pine stands to build houses for Yankees) is doing the most harm, a later start date is the only logical approach that can be made at the state level. Banning male decoys would suit me just fine, but I don’t see the state pushing that. They still need a few turkeys to get killed in the name of “hunter retention”

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiz18 View Post
    Simple math, boys. Later the start date the more hens get bred. NC has been pushing the opener back and back on the recommendation of our biologists (one of them being my best friend) for several years and the data shows it’s helping tremendously. NC starts April 13th this year.

    And while I’ll agree habitat loss (cutting down hardwoods forests to make room to house Yankees, and clear-cutting pine stands to build houses for Yankees) is doing the most harm, a later start date is the only logical approach that can be made at the state level. Banning male decoys would suit me just fine, but I don’t see the state pushing that. They still need a few turkeys to get killed in the name of “hunter retention”
    Can we start a bill to ban Yankees? I promise you I will call my reps for that one.
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  3. #3
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    Everyone’s a biologist.

  4. #4
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    The research supports a later date. Period.

  5. #5
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    Science also says the earth is getting hotter and global warming is real. Do y’all believe we should all drive electric cars and have clean energy because “science says so”. Thankfully this crap had a 5 year sunset on it. When this load of crap doesn’t produce more turkeys we can go back to what we have now. I stood in one spot and listened to 8 different turkeys gobbling this morning. If you take care of them you’ll have birds.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ1012 View Post
    Science also says the earth is getting hotter and global warming is real. Do y’all believe we should all drive electric cars and have clean energy because “science says so”. Thankfully this crap had a 5 year sunset on it. When this load of crap doesn’t produce more turkeys we can go back to what we have now. I stood in one spot and listened to 8 different turkeys gobbling this morning. If you take care of them you’ll have birds.
    Your analogy is horrible since climate change is a natural phenomenon that the earth has experienced before.
    I sat in one spot with my daughter this morning and heard at least that many but, I don't have the turkeys I had two or three decades ago and I expect you're not old enough to have experienced what we had back in the late 90's early 2000's
    Myself and other biologists don't expect that everyone will "understand" the science of wild turkey behavior and the importance of protecting recruitment by allowing them to breed (early nests are proven to be more successful than later nesting) before we start killing them, but hey, you're entitled to your "opinion" PJ but that's all it is.
    It's not just about "you having birds" as you put it since the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation (look it up) entrusts game to all and SCDNR is tasked to manage game for the entire state, not just you or those fortunate enough to have turkeys because their private property is managed to a T.
    Happy Easter buddy.....
    \"I never saw a wild thing feel sorry for itself. A small bird will drop dead frozen from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.\" <br />D.H. LAWRENCE

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calibogue View Post
    Your analogy is horrible since climate change is a natural phenomenon that the earth has experienced before.
    I sat in one spot with my daughter this morning and heard at least that many but, I don't have the turkeys I had two or three decades ago and I expect you're not old enough to have experienced what we had back in the late 90's early 2000's
    Myself and other biologists don't expect that everyone will "understand" the science of wild turkey behavior and the importance of protecting recruitment by allowing them to breed (early nests are proven to be more successful than later nesting) before we start killing them, but hey, you're entitled to your "opinion" PJ but that's all it is.
    It's not just about "you having birds" as you put it since the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation (look it up) entrusts game to all and SCDNR is tasked to manage game for the entire state, not just you or those fortunate enough to have turkeys because their private property is managed to a T.
    Happy Easter buddy.....
    I recently listened to Cuz’s podcast Fist Full of Dirt. It was a 2 part podcast with the head Mississippi biologist Adam Butler. In part 1 Adam discusses season frameworks. I think it’s around the 40 minute mark if you’d like to listen. He talks about on some of their public land they have pushed season dates back to see if it boost the turkey populations any. Their studies showed it had no impact on the population. I say all this to say our biologist in this state have had the results of this study now for around 5 years. They also have full control on the bag limits and season dates for public land in this state. Why have they not already implemented these dates on public land if it’s going to help so much? We could’ve had 5 years of data showing if it works or not.

    Also I realize their study says April 10th is peak nesting, but most of the time my 20-25 hen flocks are down to 2-4 by April 1st. This year it was down to 2-4 when the season had started. I was seeing a majority of solo hens before we even started hunting. Which means many of them were bred before the season even started.

    Happy Easter buddy……

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ1012 View Post
    I recently listened to Cuz’s podcast Fist Full of Dirt. It was a 2 part podcast with the head Mississippi biologist Adam Butler. In part 1 Adam discusses season frameworks. I think it’s around the 40 minute mark if you’d like to listen. He talks about on some of their public land they have pushed season dates back to see if it boost the turkey populations any. Their studies showed it had no impact on the population. I say all this to say our biologist in this state have had the results of this study now for around 5 years. They also have full control on the bag limits and season dates for public land in this state. Why have they not already implemented these dates on public land if it’s going to help so much? We could’ve had 5 years of data showing if it works or not.

    Also I realize their study says April 10th is peak nesting, but most of the time my 20-25 hen flocks are down to 2-4 by April 1st. This year it was down to 2-4 when the season had started. I was seeing a majority of solo hens before we even started hunting. Which means many of them were bred before the season even started.

    Happy Easter buddy……
    As I understand it, that project was neither peer-reviewed nor was it published. These are extremely important things in The credibility of Wildlife Research and without them, that project pretty much means nothing. It sounds to me like they did not have enough measurable data to pass judgment on reproductive success.
    \"I never saw a wild thing feel sorry for itself. A small bird will drop dead frozen from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.\" <br />D.H. LAWRENCE

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calibogue View Post
    As I understand it, that project was neither peer-reviewed nor was it published. These are extremely important things in The credibility of Wildlife Research and without them, that project pretty much means nothing. It sounds to me like they did not have enough measurable data to pass judgment on reproductive success.
    Wasn't that study based on hunter observations and not on GPS turkey movements and nesting data? Why does NC have better populations than most with a later start date and arguably the same predator levels as SC?

  10. #10
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    Everyone’s a biologist.

  11. #11
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    The new samfc

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by trash2 View Post
    The new samfc
    Not hardly new....
    Although formally termed in 2001 it has been the model in this country for decades.
    \"I never saw a wild thing feel sorry for itself. A small bird will drop dead frozen from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.\" <br />D.H. LAWRENCE

  13. #13
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    Default Meleagris Californica or the Pre-Historic Californian Turkey

    https://www.laalmanac.com/history/hi735.php


    Among the wildlife to greet the first human inhabitants of the Los Angeles area was the Californian turkey (Meleagris californica). It was a turkey species found only in Southern California, believed to have gone extinct about 12,000 to 10,000 years ago. It was apparently abundant here, judging from the number of fossils found. It ranged from Orange County, through Los Angeles County, to Santa Barbara County. The La Brea Tar Pits alone, at last report, have collected 11,116 fossil specimens of M. californica, representing at least 791 individual birds. It is one of the most common of 140 bird species found at Rancho La Brea, second only to the Golden Eagle (Aquila crysaetos). Scientists speculate that its extinction may have been due to either climate change or human hunting or, likely, both.

    The Californian turkey was a contemporary of other now extinct prehistoric animals that roamed the Los Angeles area, such as the sabre-toothed cat, the giant ground sloth, the dire wolf, and the mammoth and mastodon. Its fossils were first identified at Rancho La Brea (La Brea Tar Pits) by paleontologist-zoologist Loye H. Miller in 1909. He originally described it, however, as a relative of the peacock and then, later, as a new type of intermediary between peacock and turkey. It was only correctly reclassified as related to modern turkeys in 1924. It was, nevertheless, a unique turkey species, apparently isolated by desert and geography from interbreeding with wild turkeys from elsewhere in the continent. Scientists believe its origination in Southern California may have been as far back as 11 million years ago.
    "Hunt today to kill tomorrow." - Ron Jolly

  14. #14
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    They can go extinct.... just bc you're in denial about it, doesn't mean it can't happen.
    "Hunt today to kill tomorrow." - Ron Jolly

  15. #15
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    Its not like we are over run with hens and no gobblers left to breed them. The timing of when the gobblers are killed is a miniscule part of the reason for the decline.

    Adjust bag limits, limit out of state tags, and focus on the real reasons of the declines. Loss of habitat.

    Hate to tell you folks but the growth of housing and development in this state will be the death of our natural resources.

  16. #16
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    everybody is all about conservation until it personally inconveniences them.

    im not smart enough to understand ins and outs of wildlife biology, but people a lot smarter than me have been saying for years we need a later season start date to allow for breeding opportunities and a chance to get a nest established. unfortunately we can't control loss of habitat due to development, but we can control the structure of hunting seasons and practicing better management of wildlife habitat.

    thanks for everyone that pushed this bill, im happy to see a proactive effort to curb turkey population decline before they go the way of quail.
    "JUST BECAUSE I AM NOT A GOOD SPELLER DOESN'T MEAN MY JEAN POLL IS GONNA BE BAD."
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  17. #17
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    They start to breed in late February early March. April 10 is BS. Predators and weather is the problem anyway.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by M2Field View Post
    They start to breed in late February early March. April 10 is BS. Predators and weather is the problem anyway.
    And MFers not tagging turkeys…..
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    Only thing we need to be wearing in this country are ass whippings & condoms. That'll clear up half our issues.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by FEETDOWN View Post
    And MFers not tagging turkeys…..
    Here comes the mob

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by FEETDOWN View Post
    And MFers not tagging turkeys…..
    Good luck getting that cocksucker to understand that……

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