AHM?

[FEETDOWN]

Could someone kindly tell me why Adaptive Harvest Management is named that? Because as far as I can tell, there is nothing "Adaptive" about it. This is a great podcast that will clue you in to some of the absolute stupidity that we're letting the USFW service get away with.

Are you aware that the season frameworks run on 2 year cycles? That means that even though duck numbers are at historic lows, we are already locked in to 60 & 6 for the '24-'25 season. Regardless of what the BPOP numbers look like, regardless of the May pond counts. Yep, 60 & 6.

https://www.thestandardsportsman.com...owl-researcher

Start with that one and listen to all of them if you can, Brent and Cason have done a really good job of bringing a lot of issues to light on this platform

[swampknob]

States can still drop down to 30 & 3 if they wanted right?

[FEETDOWN]

States can still drop down to 30 & 3 if they wanted right?

They could, but the politics at the state level in most cases are just as, if not more, fucked up than the feds. Nobody wants to talk about the ever devouring monster that is "the industry". Which is why, IMO, more action isn't being taken to do what's right for the ducks

[centurian]

Every state wants the other states in the flyway to cut their season and limits while they remain the same. that s why it is difficult to get change.

[Gregory]

Paper ducks being reported by people/organizations/businesses that have a huge financial bias to have more duck hunters.

[BOGSTER]

I listened to this one the other day.

What can be done?

Waterfowl Hunting is a 4 billion annual business.

With that kind of money, the resource isn't the focus.

[Rubberhead*]

I wrote this in 2005 and posted it on another site (maybe here somewhere too).

We almost lost duck hunting during the heyday of market gunning. The problem was simply that the socioeconomic conditions of the time created a set of circumstances where the livelihood of an increasing number of men depended on killing ducks. Without a major change in the attitude of those involved this would have lead to only one natural conclusion: the total decimation of waterfowl populations to the point that no one could make a living killing ducks. Thankfully men like George “Bird” Grinnell and others started speaking out against what was considered a totally acceptable and honorable way to make a living. The movement to create laws around waterfowling were very unpopular at first. I am sure that many men actually came to blows over disagreements about limit laws and the open-market selling of waterfowl. Eventually though, cooler heads prevailed and while market gunning as a way of life has disappeared, duck hunting as a sport has survived.

Fast forward 100 years: Once again socioeconomic conditions have created a situation where there are a large number of families whose livelihoods depend on ducks being killed. The situation puts tremendous political pressure on those that make the season frameworks to have the longest possible seasons with the highest possible daily bag limits. As the need for shorter seasons and lower bag limits becomes more obvious, those who depend on duck hunting for a living will get more creative about how to continue exploiting the resource and more desperate about implementing these “solutions”. Once again it is a condition that only has one possible outcome: the total decimation of waterfowl populations to the point no one can make a living helping themselves or others kill ducks.

At best, losing of the ability to make a living related to duck hunting can only be delayed not prevented. Unfortunately, the cost of this delay is the loss of duck hunting as a sport.

While I don't blame anyone for choosing his family over strangers, it is time to change the set of conditions that force these good men to choose between feeding their families and protecting duck hunting as a sport.

Duck hunting can only survive as a sport, not as a way of making a living.

[skrimp]

I like the Standard Sportsman podcast. I'm in complete agreement about paper ducks and I like the way it was explained. The USFWS bases the counts on the lay of the land from 50+ years ago and its vastly different now. Unless duck hunters demand change such as a Jan 15th cut off, reduce the season to 45 days or less and reduction in the number of hens allowed, duck hunting is doomed.

[FEETDOWN]

I wrote this in 2005 and posted it on another site (maybe here somewhere too).

And it's just as true now as it was then. It's only gotten worse, and will continue to get worse if changes aren't made......

[Southernduck]

The Chene crowd aint no different than the Hey Bo crowd, just more $$$

We could leave the season 60 days and reduce the limit to 3 and have positive impacts without reducing the opportunity.

[skrimp]

The Chene crowd aint no different than the Hey Bo crowd, just more $$$

We could leave the season 60 days and reduce the limit to 3 and have positive impacts without reducing the opportunity.

One of the biologists they interviewed says day kill ducks, not limits. I'm not sure how much truth there is to that but the way he explained it makes sense. He was saying that the average hunter kills less that 2 ducks per trip so a 3 bird limit wouldn't do much for reducing harvest. He also said a one hen limit didn't help much because a lot of hen got mud stomped. No idea if he's correct but it made sense.

[skrimp]

I did notice that pretty much all the mallard hens I saw after mid January were paired. Killing the hen or the drake after pairing is very detrimental to nesting success.

[MolliesMaster]

We've got to reduce opportunity. Technology, flexibility of work/life balance, and sheer volume of hunters "grinding for the gram" is pressing hard on a resource that from a sustainability standpoint is already getting its teeth kicked in from a loss of habitat up and down its natural migratory pathway.


Bottom line is more of you should sell your hunting crap and take up year-round golf or pickleball or whatever else.

[Rubberhead*]

Adaptive Harvest Management (AHM) has not been adaptive at all. It has been, quite literally, the exact opposite. The blue line on the chart below basically shows that amount opportunity given by a combination of the season length and the bag limit for each duck season since 1966. The black dots and the black curve show actual harvest for the same periods.

AHM started in 1995. Notice that the waterfowl managers prior to 1995, were very effective at using season and limits to manage harvest rates in response to changes in waterfowl populations.

But, once AHM started, again in 1995, as the flat section highlighted by the red circle shows, season and limits haven't changed once. This "Adaptive" method has refused to adjust to lower duck numbers as indicated by the drop in harvest rates since 2000.

It doesn't take an expert in trend analysis to understand that harvest rates (black line) are going to continue to drop unless someone grows enough backbone to lower the opportunity (blue line).

[trash2]

But you can still cross the borders and burn them. Go to Mexico and down as many as you desire, or push north and kill fledglings by the truck load.

[BOGSTER]

But you can still cross the borders and burn them. Go to Mexico and down as many as you desire, or push north and kill fledglings by the truck load.

I can't think of anything more repulsive than 10 men setting up on the breeding grounds and killing 10 man limits of 100 day old birds for 10 days strait.

And I've done it.

At the time it was a dream come true. But after I saw it from a distance, I quickly changed my mind.

[tman]

I haven't duck hunted in SC in the last 2 years. In the last 5 years, I've been a resident for only 1 season. That said, my observations of hunting "back home" have been limited the last few years. But overall I see a decline in hunter success and an increase in hunter frustration. Few SC duck hunters have repeatable success throughout the season. As time goes by, it seems like the younger generation, with less and less success under their belts, never really is able to learn the art of waterfowling, and thus has become an actual nuisance to everyone on the water because they don't know what they're doing. So they hire a guide out of state, for a 3 day trip to get their instagram pictures. This fuels the internet fire that them, and all their buddies are addicted to. Pile pictures of 30, 30, 50 + birds in one hunt. Ridiculous.

It's time to get serious about what it means to be a SPORTSMAN. Ban the robo decoys and ban guide hunting.

Rubberhead nailed it. The "sport" has become profitable. And now the resource pays.

All that being said, it's been a crappy year across the whole country so don't hit the panic button yet. But I think we're getting close to time to hit the reset button on what sport vs profit means.

[cajunwannabe]

Adaptive Harvest Management (AHM) has not been adaptive at all. It has been, quite literally, the exact opposite. The blue line on the chart below basically shows that amount opportunity given by a combination of the season length and the bag limit for each duck season since 1966. The black dots and the black curve show actual harvest for the same periods.

AHM started in 1995. Notice that the waterfowl managers prior to 1995, were very effective at using season and limits to manage harvest rates in response to changes in waterfowl populations.

But, once AHM started, again in 1995, as the flat section highlighted by the red circle shows, season and limits haven't changed once. This "Adaptive" method has refused to adjust to lower duck numbers as indicated by the drop in harvest rates since 2000.

It doesn't take an expert in trend analysis to understand that harvest rates (black line) are going to continue to drop unless someone grows enough backbone to lower the opportunity (blue line).

I'm curious, RH, how does this graph look for the other 3 flyways?

[Rubberhead*]

I'm curious, RH, how does this graph look for the other 3 flyways?

They're a little different but all four flyways have had their version of the Liberal season since 1995 and all four flyways have experienced a drop off of their harvest rate since 2000...

[cajunwannabe]

Roger that.

Does the harvest data above correspond with the decline in hunter numbers? Less hunters = less harvest. As I've stated before, I don't analyze data that's why I have friends like you.

Has the warming weather trend been factored in to harvest decline?

I am opposed to the prostitution of waterfowl for profit and I have my own crazy thought that manufacturers, guide outfits or someone is lobbying Washington for liberal seasons / limits. It's crazy to see, with each passing duck season, the declining success of duck hunters and declining hunter numbers that folks are still spending billions of dollars for "hunter opportunity" to kill a duck.