Letter to the Natural Resources House Commitee

[flockbuster]

I sent this to every member of the committee on Natural Resources for the house as well as the committee chairman and my Representative in the Senate. Yall are welcome to use any or all of it if you want to. or you can tell me that's the dumbest idea you've ever heard.

Dear Representative /////,

I recently attended the public information meeting put on by the South Carolina Department of Natural Resources in Orangeburg, SC and would like to take this opportunity to express my thoughts and opinions on what I learned there.

I am passionate about the wild turkey so I read and search for all the information I can find on the subject. I have no formal training in wildlife biology so, much like I go to a doctor when I have a health issue, I go to the experts when I want to know how to help ensure there are wild turkeys for my children and grandchildren to hunt.

Every study I have seen by reputable biologists, including the one several Southeastern states paid for a few years ago, shows we should wait until at least April 9th or 10th to open our season. The only state that I am aware of in the South that has been doing that is North Carolina and correspondingly, they are also the only state in the South whose turkey population seems to be stable and are actually having record harvests.

I have been hunting turkeys in South Carolina for over 30 years now. I absolutely loved starting the season on March the 15th and being able to shoot five turkeys a season but that isn’t realistic with our declining population.

I understand there are people who have the resources to manage their respective properties for turkeys and some of those folks have strong populations but the vast majority of us don’t have the funds to do so. I know in my case I lease hunting rights through a hunting club to roughly 2000 acres. We plant food plots and trap both canine predators and egg eaters extensively. We have already limited ourselves to two turkeys per season on our property.
We don’t own the property so we have no say so in the timber management, but we do what we can. Recently several hundred acres of our prime turkey habitat was clear cut because the timber was getting too large for the equipment to handle effectively. If there was an incentive for our property owner to leave it, I believe he would be open to the idea, but I can’t blame him for cutting his timber when he did.

I know I am fortunate to have the opportunities to do what we can on this property, but most clubs don’t have the freedom to do all we do and the man that only gets to hunt public land has even less influence on the turkey population. While a small percentage of people may be able to sustain and grow their turkey populations the vast majority don’t have the resources and so I believe that there are some changes that need to be made statewide to help all of us to have huntable populations in the future and not just those with the most resources.

My understanding is that DNR can make suggestions but that the legislature makes the decisions on changes to hunting seasons and limits. My research shows me that there is a committee that reviews ideas and suggestions before anything goes to the full body of representatives. I would appreciate the opportunity to express my point of view to this committee in person if that is permissible.

Just in case that isn’t possible I would like to ask that you and your fellow representatives consider the following suggestions.
1. Start the season on April 10th statewide.
2. Reduce the limit from 3 to 2.
3. No afternoon hunting the first 10 days of the season.
4. Make fanning or reaping illegal for safety reasons.
5. Increase the price of turkey tags to $20 each.
6. Offer a collector’s type turkey stamp for $50. Stamp would not be required to hunt.
7. Any funds raised from numbers 5 and 6 would be used to fund turkey research, workshops for habitat and predator management or incentives for landowners to develop turkey habitat.
8. Put a sunset clause in any changes to be reviewed after five years.

I know that I probably can’t get everything I want but I hope you will strongly consider the first two items on my list at least. There is more than enough data to show that those two things alone could have a big impact on our struggling turkey population.

I am sure you are extremely busy, but I would greatly appreciate the chance to talk to you about my thoughts and views in person or by phone whenever it’s convenient for you.

Sincerely,
Wes Murphy
803-983-1746
Wmurphy2008@hotmail.com

[Whackumstackum]

People that hunt in the afternoon aren’t the issue.

[Palmetto Duck]

I agree Wackem but the DNR is talking about in their meetings that about 1/3 of total turkeys killed are killed in the afternoon. So they look at that as a large factor I guess and have a possible no afternoon hunting on their list of perspective recommendations. This is counter intuitive as hell. If a 1/3 are killed in the afternoon then 2/3 are killed in the morning. Everyone loves the morning gobbling and calling them off the roost. But if the goal is slowing turkey killing they should forget about what they think they can get the legislature to approve and recommend no MORNING hunting the first 10 days vs possibly no afternoon hunting. They’ll likely recommend a later start date based on what I heard at the meeting and the data from several SE states’ studies concerning when hens nest. So why wouldn’t they use the data concerning when you can or can’t hunt as far as part of the day. They did it with doves, with no morning the first week to slow people from double dipping. 60% of turkey are killed 1st ten days of season they say in the meetings. Hens nest about April 12th. So they suggest push season back. 1/3 of turkeys killed in pm. So they possibly recommend no afternoon hunting? That’s completely ass backwards. Once again the working guy and public land hunter gets fooked. Even with adding Sun hunting on WMA, IF you can’t get off work and hunt weekends only, your turkey season just got reduced to 8 half days if you blow off church and if the no pm bullshit makes its way through or 4 day season equivalent. I hope the no pm hunting doesn’t make its way through the changes. I’d just prefer a shorter overall season with all day hunting.

[Palmetto Duck]

I agree Wackem but the DNR is talking about in their meetings that about 1/3 of total turkeys killed are killed in the afternoon. So they look at that as a large factor I guess and have a possible no afternoon hunting on their list of perspective recommendations. This is counter intuitive as hell. If a 1/3 are killed in the afternoon then 2/3 are killed in the morning. Everyone loves the morning gobbling and calling them off the roost. But if the goal is slowing turkey killing they should forget about what they think they can get the legislature to approve and recommend no MORNING hunting the first 10 days vs possibly no afternoon hunting. They’ll likely recommend a later start date based on what I heard at the meeting and the data from several SE states’ studies concerning when hens nest. So why wouldn’t they use the data concerning when you can or can’t hunt as far as part of the day. They did it with doves, with no morning the first week to slow people from double dipping. 60% of turkey are killed 1st ten days of season they say in the meetings. Hens nest about April 12th. So they suggest push season back. 1/3 of turkeys killed in pm. So they possibly recommend no afternoon hunting? That’s completely ass backwards. Once again the working guy and public land hunter gets fooked. Even with adding Sun hunting on WMA, IF you can’t get off work and hunt weekends only, your turkey season just got reduced to 8 half days if you blow off church and if the no pm bullshit makes its way through or 4 day season equivalent. I hope the no pm hunting doesn’t make its way through the changes. I’d just prefer a shorter overall season with all day hunting.

[BIGDUX]

Well I am not a turkey hunter, but my son is passionate about it. He hunts afternoons because he works mornings. Eliminating afternoon hunting only helps the well heeled.

[buckpro]

Yeah if they ban afternoon hunting, I'm gonna go from a conservationist and manager of one hell of a turkey population......to a poacher, real damn quick.

[raybird]

great letter (i read the header wrong through my and made the wrong statement )

Let me remind you guys that the last time we went through this turkey debacle the SCDNR lied about every process along the way to try and fight for a unified state season, they were pushed by Sen Campsen and Co. Even the trapping of turkeys and selling to texas that was already documented on SCDucks was denied until proven a lie
and the NWTF assisted and lied as well!!!

SCDNR does not care what the public input . They are only worried about keeping their appointed job and the associated kick backs.

If y’all want something done talk to senators, reps, and lobbyists. forget the dnr

[flockbuster]

i love hunting in the afternoons my own self, but here is my thinking on not doing so the first ten days.

The studies actually show it would be better to wait even later than April 10 to start the season but nobody, including me, wants that so by not allowing afternoon hunting the first ten days it would at least give the birds a break during that time frame. Then we could hunt them all day the rest of the season.

22 percent of birds are killed in the afternoons but my reasoning for the afternoon limitation is solely for giving the birds a better chance of breeding. I also think that has a very small chance of getting passed into the regulations.

[JimmyD714]

I agree Wackem but the DNR is talking about in their meetings that about 1/3 of total turkeys killed are killed in the afternoon. So they look at that as a large factor I guess and have a possible no afternoon hunting on their list of perspective recommendations. This is counter intuitive as hell. If a 1/3 are killed in the afternoon then 2/3 are killed in the morning. Everyone loves the morning gobbling and calling them off the roost. But if the goal is slowing turkey killing they should forget about what they think they can get the legislature to approve and recommend no MORNING hunting the first 10 days vs possibly no afternoon hunting. They’ll likely recommend a later start date based on what I heard at the meeting and the data from several SE states’ studies concerning when hens nest. So why wouldn’t they use the data concerning when you can or can’t hunt as far as part of the day. They did it with doves, with no morning the first week to slow people from double dipping. 60% of turkey are killed 1st ten days of season they say in the meetings. Hens nest about April 12th. So they suggest push season back. 1/3 of turkeys killed in pm. So they possibly recommend no afternoon hunting? That’s completely ass backwards. Once again the working guy and public land hunter gets fooked. Even with adding Sun hunting on WMA, IF you can’t get off work and hunt weekends only, your turkey season just got reduced to 8 half days if you blow off church and if the no pm bullshit makes its way through or 4 day season equivalent. I hope the no pm hunting doesn’t make its way through the changes. I’d just prefer a shorter overall season with all day hunting.

Remember, the Sunday hunting on WMA didn't include turkey season. Just October 15 thru January 1 is what I believe the dates were. So us WMA hunters are still held to roughly 4 days of hunting unless we can sneak in some weekday hunts. Many of us get stuck working on a Saturday morning or coming back from work travel. Shoot I took a redeye flight back from MN in the 3rd week of the season on a Saturday so I could squeeze in a few hour hunt. Woke up at about 2:30 am to do it.

No bans on any section of the day's hunting, especially afternoons. There are numerous other things we can try before we start chipping away at our opportunity to hunt.

[Sportin' Woodies]

Imagine rooting for the govt to take away your ability to hunt a turkey in the afternoon....

[2thDoc]

i didnt know there was a socioeconomic issue with hunting mornings....

[JimmyD714]

And as far as the increase of turkey tags to $20, I'd be for that ONLY if we can absolutely guarantee that the DNR would use those funds for something productive to the betterment of our turkey population. I don't know exactly how we do that.

My buddy mentioned that at the Greenville meeting and I heard someone say, "hell if turkey tags are $20 I'll just buy a turkey at walmart and forget about hunting them." That made me think it was a good idea haha.

[Catdaddy]

My buddy mentioned that at the Greenville meeting and I heard someone say, "hell if turkey tags are $20 I'll just buy a turkey at walmart and forget about hunting them." That made me think it was a good idea haha.

When we were doing a stocking in Lee County, we stopped at a little store to get a drink. An elderly lady walked up to the truck and said to the biologist,....."are those the turkeys we signed up our land for?
Yes ma'am, we brought them today.

She then says,..."go ahead and put mine in the back seat of my car,....I need something for Sunday dinner."

Sent from my motorola edge plus 5G UW (2022) using Tapatalk

[Silentweapon338]

As someone whom has had an explosion in turkey populations on multiple tracks I can tell you limiting the harvest numbers, and trapping raccoons and opossums will have the greatest impact in increasing the population. I have no earthly idea why stoping hunting the afternoon will have any meaningful impact on the population. None.

Now as far as the season goes it would make sense that 60% of the birds are killed in the beginning. There are more birds, and they aren't call shy yet. So no matter when you set the date that will be the case. But there is a great reason to back the start date up, and that is to give the birds time to breed. Back the season up to April 12, and be done.

[Palmetto Duck]

And as far as the increase of turkey tags to $20, I'd be for that ONLY if we can absolutely guarantee that the DNR would use those funds for something productive to the betterment of our turkey population. I don't know exactly how we do that.

My buddy mentioned that at the Greenville meeting and I heard someone say, "hell if turkey tags are $20 I'll just buy a turkey at walmart and forget about hunting them." That made me think it was a good idea haha.

If you remember at G’ville meeting state pres of NWTF stood up and said they were going to spend 40 MILLION over next ten years studying habitat, I believe in SC alone. I may be wrong about the SC only part. But if so, why in the HELL do turkey tags need to go up? Raise out if state lic and tag fees. That number is a decent percentage of their total lic sells number si they’re nit really going to WANT to slow that down. But if a higher fee slows it down it works toward taking pressure off the resource. Other states are already making changes to non res lic and opportunities. I believe KS limits what days you can hunt on WMAs now if you’re OOS. draw hunts are standardized across the W for big game. Why can’t we do that? Better question why WOULDNT we do that? DNR concerned about the resource or the part of their budget supported by
OOS? It seems I got the the answer when I asked Jay about that at the Greenville meeting. The first thing he told me was the percentage of their total lic sells from OOS? Really? I thought we were here to talk about turkeys. When I used to go to GA to hunt early before they changed the seasons here I paid nearly $400 to be able to do so. Raising it some for OOS’ers isn’t the end of the world.

[buckpro]

i love hunting in the afternoons my own self, but here is my thinking on not doing so the first ten days.

The studies actually show it would be better to wait even later than April 10 to start the season but nobody, including me, wants that so by not allowing afternoon hunting the first ten days it would at least give the birds a break during that time frame. Then we could hunt them all day the rest of the season.

22 percent of birds are killed in the afternoons but my reasoning for the afternoon limitation is solely for giving the birds a better chance of breeding. I also think that has a very small chance of getting passed into the regulations.

My biggest issue is kids, not including youth day you're literally giving them 8 half days to hunt, even less if they go to church. Not to mention those of us that are at work by 7am every morning.

[ShortMagFan]

Couple of things:

- 1/3 of the turkey are harvested in the afternoon. But how many total hunts take place in the afternoon? I hunt 20+ mornings / season but rarely hunt afternoons. I'd bet that less than 20% of the hunts take place in the afternoon yet are accounting for 33% of the harvest. I think the point is that the success rate for afternoon hunting is likely much higher than morning. So 1/3 of the harvest comes from a much lower percentage of the total hunts. I'd be willing to bet that afternoon hunts are also more likely to utilize some of the more controversial methods of taking a Tom (reaping).

- same concept applies for early season birds but the inverse. 60% of the birds are killed early in the season. Of course they do, because that is when hunters are more likely to hunt. I'd bet that it takes more than 60% of the total hunts to kill 60% of the birds in the early season.

Sure, limit afternoon hunting and push back the season to help with nesting success. That does nothing to address the habitat issues and the predator issues - especially the explosion of egg eaters due in large part to the presence of a lot more deer bait. I trap the heck out of raccoons on my land. I had a picture last week of 13 raccoons at a feeder at one time.

[SCWOODROW]

Fellas cool your jets. They likely aren’t changing afternoon hunting. But a two bird limit and an April 10th or later start date statewide are likely priority.

[JimmyD714]

If you remember at G’ville meeting state pres of NWTF stood up and said they were going to spend 40 MILLION over next ten years studying habitat, I believe in SC alone. I may be wrong about the SC only part. But if so, why in the HELL do turkey tags need to go up? Raise out if state lic and tag fees. That number is a decent percentage of their total lic sells number si they’re nit really going to WANT to slow that down. But if a higher fee slows it down it works toward taking pressure off the resource. Other states are already making changes to non res lic and opportunities. I believe KS limits what days you can hunt on WMAs now if you’re OOS. draw hunts are standardized across the W for big game. Why can’t we do that? Better question why WOULDNT we do that? DNR concerned about the resource or the part of their budget supported by
OOS? It seems I got the the answer when I asked Jay about that at the Greenville meeting. The first thing he told me was the percentage of their total lic sells from OOS? Really? I thought we were here to talk about turkeys. When I used to go to GA to hunt early before they changed the seasons here I paid nearly $400 to be able to do so. Raising it some for OOS’ers isn’t the end of the world.

They said across the Southeast, not just for SC. That's why my buddy suggested if we raised the resident tags we could generate that much money just for SC alone.

When that NWTF President mentioned all that money I wanted so badly to ask him, "Well now that we have seen the data of hunter numbers INCREASING can yall cool it with the R3 scam and devote any hunter recruitment funding towards habitat instead?"

[SCWOODROW]

If you remember at G’ville meeting state pres of NWTF stood up and said they were going to spend 40 MILLION over next ten years studying habitat, I believe in SC alone. I may be wrong about the SC only part. But if so, why in the HELL do turkey tags need to go up? Raise out if state lic and tag fees. That number is a decent percentage of their total lic sells number si they’re nit really going to WANT to slow that down. But if a higher fee slows it down it works toward taking pressure off the resource. Other states are already making changes to non res lic and opportunities. I believe KS limits what days you can hunt on WMAs now if you’re OOS. draw hunts are standardized across the W for big game. Why can’t we do that? Better question why WOULDNT we do that? DNR concerned about the resource or the part of their budget supported by
OOS? It seems I got the the answer when I asked Jay about that at the Greenville meeting. The first thing he told me was the percentage of their total lic sells from OOS? Really? I thought we were here to talk about turkeys. When I used to go to GA to hunt early before they changed the seasons here I paid nearly $400 to be able to do so. Raising it some for OOS’ers isn’t the end of the world.

If the season dates change to mid-ish April you will see the OOS hunters naturally drop. The only reason the majority come here is bc they can hunt in march and early April.