The state of Sumter National Forest

[LabLuvR]

I was fortunate enough to start hunting turkeys in the mid 70's in Newberry and Fairfield county. Back in the 80's and early nineties you could just go out just about any morning and hear at least five or more. To kill a turk was pretty damn easy as they were so abundant. The landscape and habitat were really in pretty good shape. A lot of fields, oaks and pine/harwood mixtures were the norm.

Contrast that to today. The state of SNF seems to get worse year after year. Not only habitat wise but turkey populations as well. I killed a turk last week on private land and decided to venture out and check out the SNF. It didn't take long for the realization to set in just how bad things were. After riding round the two counties, the habitat for the most part seemed deplorable for turkey utilization. Matter of fact I would guess, just a guess, that about 80% of what I saw was mostly pine stands with heavy sweet gum infestation along with other undesirable plant life. It occurred to me that the only decent habitat still left is limited to creek and river bottoms. A very small percentaqe of available land mass.

Of course, I just am seeing a relatively decent size of the forest and not the majority. However, if the rest of the forest is like what I have seen, turkeys from a habitat perspective are in a world of trouble. Instead of fields and open pastures which were quite common, now those are for the most part gone. Instead, unmanaged pine plantations dominate the landscape.

With a tremedous increase in hunter pressure over the last decade, combined with loss of habitat, things aren't looking real good for the turkeys future. I pray I'm wrong as fixing the landscape is something which will take major changes and a huge change in land management, which I'm not sure will ever happen.

The worst part of it that eats at me is I don't know how in the hell you fix it. Even if it were possible to control predators over such a vast area, you still have the habitat issue. Maybe one day the U.S. forest service will step up but that's like dreaming for Ronal Reagan to be president again.

[Tater]

You should stop hunting NF. Problem solved.

[Palmetto Duck]

1 bird limit is how you start to fix it. I’m as mad at them as ever. I’ll prob try to shoot the limit. But take draw hunts for example. We open them up to oos hunters. Correct me if I’m wrong. Drop oos and residents’ limit to one and watch what happens. Half the yahoo’s and I stagramers will stop. Good start. Kills will go down if limit is one. Get rid of all decoys period, not strutter ALL, unless you’re hunting with a child that is shooting a gun. That will eliminate a lot of other mediocre and non hunting non skilled people from killing turkeys. Tell me where I’m wrong. Turkeys will adapt. There are turkeys living in Greenville city limits right now. Yes I’ve figured out how to kill them already but don’t want the trouble I’d get in.

[LabLuvR]

You should stop hunting NF. Problem solved.

You’re a smart man I will consider that.

[Glenn]

How to admit you were hunting during turkey purgatory without admitting you hunted during turkey purgatory.

[LabLuvR]

1 bird limit is how you start to fix it. I’m as mad at them as ever. I’ll prob try to shoot the limit. But take draw hunts for example. We open them up to oos hunters. Correct me if I’m wrong. Drop oos and residents’ limit to one and watch what happens. Half the yahoo’s and I stagramers will stop. Good start. Kills will go down if limit is one. Get rid of all decoys period, not strutter ALL, unless you’re hunting with a child that is shooting a gun. That will eliminate a lot of other mediocre and non hunting non skilled people from killing turkeys. Tell me where I’m wrong. Turkeys will adapt. There are turkeys living in Greenville city limits right now. Yes I’ve figured out how to kill them already but don’t want the trouble I’d get in.

There is probably better have better habitat in Greenville compared to some of the shit I have seen. I know quite a few people who would not argue with you about the one bird limit.

[JimmyD714]

I can tell you that what you drove around and saw was not an anomaly, it is the norm. This is my 4th turkey season living in South Carolina and I've done almost all of my hunting in the same SNF district you're mentioning except on the Laurens and Union county side. Very few turkeys, very few deer, very few rabbits. I guess the squirrel population is decent.

Most of the land is absolutely worthless for turkeys, as well as for deer, rabbits, ducks, and don't even think about quail. Matter of fact, the only populations of animals thriving there are coyotes and hogs. I hunt it because it's what is available and, at least, large enough so that I can escape most of the hunting pressure. I've killed some stuff but literally every other state I've hunted has far better game populations on their public lands.

So much of it is exactly what you said - overgrown pine stands. Some horribly infested with sweetgum, some so overgrown and with the canopy so closed off that absolutely nothing grows except some muscadine vines that will never get large enough to produce a grape. They just cover the forest floor like carpet. That land is completely devoid of anything except lizards and an occasional wasp nest and that is by far the majority of the total land mass of SNF. I've never walked through the FMNF but I hear that is way worse than the 3 SNF tracts. My fear is that soon all the SNF land will be just as bad.

Where I learned to hunt in Tennessee, and for the few years living in the upper Midwest hunting MN and WI, I saw public land that was actually managed for game animals. It's almost as if those state's DNRs actually cared about hunters. So far, it'd be hard to convince me that our DNR cares about us in any regard other than as a budget contributor.

I don't have a clue how to fix things but I sure as heck know it's broken. The public land here is by far the worst managed I've ever seen and has the fewest game animals I've ever seen on public land. It's not pressure, it's quality of land. TN has worse hunting pressure than here, and you can thank the YouTube goofballs for that, but still the hunting is way better.

How do we hold SCDNR accountable and hold their feet to the fire so they start actually managing public land? As far as I can tell, the only service they provide us is selling licenses.

[JimmyD714]

1 bird limit is how you start to fix it. I’m as mad at them as ever. I’ll prob try to shoot the limit. But take draw hunts for example. We open them up to oos hunters. Correct me if I’m wrong. Drop oos and residents’ limit to one and watch what happens. Half the yahoo’s and I stagramers will stop. Good start. Kills will go down if limit is one. Get rid of all decoys period, not strutter ALL, unless you’re hunting with a child that is shooting a gun. That will eliminate a lot of other mediocre and non hunting non skilled people from killing turkeys. Tell me where I’m wrong. Turkeys will adapt. There are turkeys living in Greenville city limits right now. Yes I’ve figured out how to kill them already but don’t want the trouble I’d get in.

I agree with everything you said except reducing the limit to 1. Let's just get rid of decoys altogether and that will do the job of reducing the total kill. Bet you at least 75% of every season's total kill came from decoy usage.

Also, somewhere around 92% of the turkey kill comes from private land. So if we're just talking about public land usage, believe me there aren't a lot of guys killing 2 or 3 turkeys on our public land. Unless they have strutter decoys. Eliminate those and we'll save a lot of Toms.

[Tater]

You’re a smart man I will consider that.

1 down 76,482 to go.

[Tater]

I can tell you that what you drove around and saw was not an anomaly, it is the norm. This is my 4th turkey season living in South Carolina and I've done almost all of my hunting in the same SNF district you're mentioning except on the Laurens and Union county side. Very few turkeys, very few deer, very few rabbits. I guess the squirrel population is decent.

Most of the land is absolutely worthless for turkeys, as well as for deer, rabbits, ducks, and don't even think about quail. Matter of fact, the only populations of animals thriving there are coyotes and hogs. I hunt it because it's what is available and, at least, large enough so that I can escape most of the hunting pressure. I've killed some stuff but literally every other state I've hunted has far better game populations on their public lands.

So much of it is exactly what you said - overgrown pine stands. Some horribly infested with sweetgum, some so overgrown and with the canopy so closed off that absolutely nothing grows except some muscadine vines that will never get large enough to produce a grape. They just cover the forest floor like carpet. That land is completely devoid of anything except lizards and an occasional wasp nest and that is by far the majority of the total land mass of SNF. I've never walked through the FMNF but I hear that is way worse than the 3 SNF tracts. My fear is that soon all the SNF land will be just as bad.

Where I learned to hunt in Tennessee, and for the few years living in the upper Midwest hunting MN and WI, I saw public land that was actually managed for game animals. It's almost as if those state's DNRs actually cared about hunters. So far, it'd be hard to convince me that our DNR cares about us in any regard other than as a budget contributor.

I don't have a clue how to fix things but I sure as heck know it's broken. The public land here is by far the worst managed I've ever seen and has the fewest game animals I've ever seen on public land. It's not pressure, it's quality of land. TN has worse hunting pressure than here, and you can thank the YouTube goofballs for that, but still the hunting is way better.

How do we hold SCDNR accountable and hold their feet to the fire so they start actually managing public land? As far as I can tell, the only service they provide us is selling licenses.

You should stop hunting NF land. Problem solved.

[JimmyD714]

You should stop hunting NF land. Problem solved.

It's all I got homie. And I hear the surveyor of that area is a real douche.

[Tater]

All surveyors are douches.

[LabLuvR]

No, just you Taterhead dumbass.

[LabLuvR]

They should take down the “Game Management” signs and replace those with “Shit Land Management Area”. A lot more appropriate.

[Tater]

[smitch320]

So what’s the alternative ?

[Tater]

Join a lease and stop hunting NF.

[scatter shot]

So what’s the alternative ?

Corn fixes everything.

[JimmyD714]

Join a lease and stop hunting NF.

I don't think the growing lease culture is good for the future of hunting. I can afford leases, I just choose not to because I think it's bad for our future and for other reasons.

Prices will continue to go up, available acreage will continue to decrease due to development, number of hunters to compete with to even get a spot on said lease, let alone hunt the spot you want, will increase.

We need something to fall back on and that something is vast acres of publicly accessible land. Also, some folks truly can't afford to join a lease and they should be able to find a good place to hunt instead of our overgrown barren wastelands of pine and sweetgum.

If we want our children and grandchildren, and beyond, to be able to have access to hunting then relying on leases is not the solution. The solution is finding a way to kick our DNR in the butt and get them to do their jobs.

And honestly if I have to pay $2000 to have good deer hunting for 3 months I'd honestly just rather buy a whole processed cow from a local farmer. More meat, less time invested, and I'd just go fishing more. Until it starts to also cost $2000 a year for a "lease" on a section of Lake Greenwood or on my tidal marsh spots.

[w33kender]

That wma permit fee doesn’t buy a lot of habitat improvement.

I’ve seen assloads of turkeys live and die on pine and gum plantations. The lack of gobblers is something more than just habitat shortcomings.