SC Redfish Population

[SouthernWake]

Here are some interesting graphics from SCDNR regarding our declining redfish population

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[tprice]

Interesting.

Curious to what the fix should be.

Seldom will I ever keep a slot red but we do eat a hand full every year between wife and I (maybe 6-8 total )

Would shrinking the slot limit help any ?

[SouthernWake]

At its simplest equations, a sustainable number of fish being removed from the population (fishing pressure/harvest/predation) as well as a sustainable number of new fish being added to the population (habitat/environmental factors) needs to be at least balanced.

As of now there is no single "smoking gun" to the decline but the work is being done to try to figure out each variables impact.

What we can do is focus on what we can control:
work to protect the physical environment/habitat
harvest
proper handling to reduce catch and release mortality

mine (and others) additions:
limiting the targeting of spawners
choosing to personally limit pressure on each group of fish (don't beat the crap out of the same fish on every trip)

[SouthernWake]

Interesting.

Curious to what the fix should be.

Seldom will I ever keep a slot red but we do eat a hand full every year between wife and I (maybe 6-8 total )

Would shrinking the slot limit help any ?

I don't personally see current harvest numbers a factor in the decline to where a change NEEDS to be made BUT that can be seen as an immediate addition of 250k or so fish to the population every year to offset other factors.

That being said I am strictly catch and release and would support a decreased bag on them.

[SharkDave]

Allow tightly regulated commercial shark harvesting again. There is no shortage of those whatsoever.

[darealdeal]

I don't personally see current harvest numbers a factor in the decline to where a change NEEDS to be made BUT that can be seen as an immediate addition of 250k or so fish to the population every year to offset other factors.

That being said I am strictly catch and release and would support a decreased bag on them.

Curious if any study is out there on the length in time they are handled and out of the water with fish mortality and how they handle that type of pressure. I know there is on trout and handling them out of water with mortality rates. Would be interesting to see.

[trash2]

I’m sure the same people collecting data are the same that can’t catch a red snapper. A spot tail is the easiest inshore fish by far for anyone to catch, minus perhaps trolling for trout in the fall. The glory of the “redfish” has increased fishing pressure, if people had to fish for flounder and trout the harbor would be similar to how it looked 20yrs ago as far as fishing pressure goes. Every northern migrant can and does easily catch them plus guides thrive off of them, simply bc they are buzzards and readily available to bend a pole

[JimmyD714]

So we're releasing a lot more fish, yet the population continues to decline? Could it have anything to do with the amount of pressure put on the big spawning reds?

Those fish fight until they're about dead and I'd have to believe some of them die after appearing to swim off fine. Either from what they endured during the fight, the time out of water for collection of stupid pics and video for Instagram "reels" #CatchAndRelease #LetEmGoLetEmGrow or just being so weak after the battle that they're an easy pick up for sharks.

[carolinadrifter]

The targeting of the spawning fish all summer and fall has got to have something to do with it in my opinion. The sharks have gotten out of control and a lot of those breeder fish brought up from 40-50ft, although they may swim off fine are probably getting sharked. I also wonder if we increased the slot size a bit and reduced the limit to 1/angler 3/boat. Keeping a 15in fish to eat doesn’t yield much. I would like to see maybe 18-25 or 26 in slot. I wouldn’t be opposed to a season closure either. Close it for one year and see the effects. The real issue is game and fish laws have to go through the legislature. Fisheries science should never be political. Interesting that the decline from 2010- present also coincides with the social media boom. The need for the grip and grin photos for the gram can’t be helping the situation either.

[SouthernWake]

I’m sure the same people collecting data are the same that can’t catch a red snapper. A spot tail is the easiest inshore fish by far for anyone to catch, minus perhaps trolling for trout in the fall.

That’s a bit of flawed logic, let’s put together an imaginary fish distribution on three tiers of habitat

Scenario 1 is a balanced healthy distribution
“A” level habitat 50 fish
“B” level habitat 30 fish
“C” level habitat 20 fish

Scenario 2 is a declining population
“A” level habitat 50 fish
“B” level habitat 15 fish
“C” level habitat 10 fish

Here you can see a 25% drop in a population while still having no issues catching fish, especially targeting “A” habitat.

[JimmyD714]

The targeting of the spawning fish all summer and fall has got to have something to do with it in my opinion. The sharks have gotten out of control and a lot of those breeder fish brought up from 40-50ft, although they may swim off fine are probably getting sharked. I also wonder if we increased the slot size a bit and reduced the limit to 1/angler 3/boat. Keeping a 15in fish to eat doesn’t yield much. I would like to see maybe 18-25 or 26 in slot. I wouldn’t be opposed to a season closure either. Close it for one year and see the effects. The real issue is game and fish laws have to go through the legislature. Fisheries science should never be political. Interesting that the decline from 2010- present also coincides with the social media boom. The need for the grip and grin photos for the gram can’t be helping the situation either.

Most of the ones I catch when I head down there are a few inches over the slot. I'm a 100% catch and eat guy but I leave them alone once I've got my 2. Just don't feel the need to keep catching them and I also only get to fish the coast 5-6 times a year. A few weeks ago I got into them really good day after day and would have to sort through a few 25-28 inch ones to get my 2 in the slot then I left the group alone.

Seeing these people catch so many of the big spawners just for the 'gram pics then tossing them back makes me wonder how many of them wind up dead. Just like with hunting, social media is the worst thing to happen to fishing. I just can't see any justification for putting so much pressure on the spawning fish of a population in this sort of decline.

[SouthernWake]

So we're releasing a lot more fish, yet the population continues to decline? Could it have anything to do with the amount of pressure put on the big spawning reds?

.

Targeting spawning fish is certainly a factor in my opinion as even if they survive their desire/ability to spawn after stressed is diminished.

but let’s look at catch and release:
From memory they use a 8% mortality on released fish inshore (much higher offshore or nearshore based on barotrauma)
8% mortality on the high of 3million released fish comes out to 240k fish killed, roughly the same as harvested that same year.
This is why DNR (and others should as well) is pushing best handling practices to bring that percentage down as low as possible.

[tman]

SCDNR will start closing the fishing "season" for them during spawning months. Just watch.

8% survival is probably an optimistic number imho

[tprice]

Targeting spawning fish is certainly a factor in my opinion as even if they survive their desire/ability to spawn after stressed is diminished.

but let’s look at catch and release:
From memory they use a 8% mortality on released fish inshore (much higher offshore or nearshore based on barotrauma)
8% mortality on the high of 3million released fish comes out to 240k fish killed, roughly the same as harvested that same year.
This is why DNR (and others should as well) is pushing best handling practices to bring that percentage down as low as possible.

Thanks, you answered my question before I asked (mortality rate on released fish )

I will say this, I have ditched my boga grip for a net and try to handle them lot better than years back

In fact got chastised on SCD when had some pics of nice reds we released on boga. Have to admit made me think about it


Do appreciate all the information, wife and I fixing head out of IOP in about hour

[BOGSTER]

Show me an area where there’s a thousand charter businesses, and I’ll show you a fishery with problems.

[scquackaddict]

Maybe it has to do with their color. Redfish, red snapper two species that are apparently on the verge of extinction yet readily available to regularly catch in high numbers. Makes one wonder about the “science”.

[Johnny Reb]

Curious if they are seeing similar decline on the Gulf in areas like coastal Texas and Louisiana?

How about other Atlantic coast states? Or is it just South Carolina?

My guess is fish decline correlates strongly with population increase (more people fishing) and like said above - dumbass social media usage increase.


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[b35w]

Show me an area where there’s a thousand charter businesses, and I’ll show you a fishery with problems.

I kinda thought the same thing


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[JimmyD714]

Show me an area where there’s a thousand charter businesses, and I’ll show you a fishery with problems.

A few years ago I hired one of them to take me and my in laws out for reds. I intended on keeping my limit of 2. The guide never told me until we started fishing that he is what I call a Catch and Release Karen. Absolutely refused to "kill redfish" as he labeled it. I kept my 2 anyway and it was an awkward trip as we had some words on the topic. I told him I'm not paying for a lecture. I'm paying for a service and we are within our right to keep some fish. Especially since their website even mentions how good redfish taste.

He also went on to tell me the day before him and his clients caught and released 75 redfish. Which trip do you think resulted in more dead redfish? 75 released or the 15 or so we caught and I kept 2?

I watched the guide tighyly bear hug these reds around the gills to take the hook out then toss them back. No revival attempt.

[scdiver]

I have friends in both industries. Guides taking people who would otherwise be unable to catch fish and kill waterfowl will increase the numbers killed beyond sustainable levels.
Most of my guide friends have modified over the years from let's load up to keep a few. Some guides will still keep limits on two trips a day.

The fishing population is increasing every year.