Getting the new rig dialed in…

[Palmetto Bug]

I totally agree CWPINST. The ballistic program I use, Aardvark, is close but always seems to be optimistic with regard to flatness. I found that I can tweak the muzzle velocity until the calculated holdovers match the actual holdovers I see at 200 and 300 and then it seems be closer on other distances but that tweaked muzzle velocity might be 100 to 150 fps slower than what my chronograph says. My chronograph agrees with another one I compared it to so I don't think it's lying. The moral is, practice at the range you plan to hunt. It will probably make you more conservative about risking long shots. Shooting 1 MOA at 100 yards doesn't usually equate to 1 MOA at much longer distances.

What ballistic program do you like?

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[Palmetto Bug]

Gregory, I agree but what made you come up with 20 rounds?

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[b-stick]

I remember I screwed a barrel on a match rifle the day before a match.

Used the same loads as the previous barrel and shot the match the next day without checking anything but zero.

It was a tenth low. I left it alone. It sped up mid match and was great.

I don’t do barrel break ins. Never have and probably never will. As the barrel speeds up, I’ll adjust my load if need be but other than that, shoot it and roll on.

[CWPINST]

I totally agree CWPINST. The ballistic program I use, Aardvark, is close but always seems to be optimistic with regard to flatness. I found that I can tweak the muzzle velocity until the calculated holdovers match the actual holdovers I see at 200 and 300 and then it seems be closer on other distances but that tweaked muzzle velocity might be 100 to 150 fps slower than what my chronograph says. My chronograph agrees with another one I compared it to so I don't think it's lying. The moral is, practice at the range you plan to hunt. It will probably make you more conservative about risking long shots. Shooting 1 MOA at 100 yards doesn't usually equate to 1 MOA at much longer distances.

What ballistic program do you like?

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Yep!

Another thing that I kinda understand but not totally……..but folks need to be aware of if they want to shoot long distance, is that just because a particular load shoots well at 100 does not mean that it will shoot well at 300-500. I can’t tell you the number of times that I have seen a load shoot well at 100 yards but fall apart at 300-500. For example in a normal situation let’s say that you work up 5 loads that shoot equally well at 100. You will probably find that only 1 maybe 2 will shoot well at distance, and it may end up not being your very best 100 yard load. I was once in a 500 yard match with a particular guy. He had a big name custom rifle that shot bug hole groups at 100 but he never really did much testing at 500 but he had the program that showed what it was supposed to do. Long story short, my (semi) factory Sendero 25-06 held around 0.5 MOA at 500 and his custom rifle that shot the bug hole groups fell apart at distance.

There is nothing special about my rifle. I just found a load that shot well up close and out there, and it took a lot of development to get it to that point. So I guess what I am saying is that you have to try loads at all distances before you can count on them doing their thing. In the grand scheme of things, 100 yard groups don’t mean a whole lot. It is just a starting point. This type of load variation is not an anomaly. It is normal and expected. If you have a rifle that shoots well up close and at distance with a number of loads…….don’t ever sell it! ��

I won’t go into it now but when shooting beyond 300 yards, reading environmental conditions becomes more important than plugging numbers into the cute little charts.

[FLS]

That’s a nice looking setup. Ballistic solvers are only as good as the data you input. The farther out you can true your velocity and BC the better.

[Swamp Rat]

I am putting together, finally, my long range set up. I doubt I will hunt with it, but I'll definitely shoot "our 'dere" with it. I went with a Spuhr base for several reasons, one being that I am guess I won't have to lap it. Before today, I lapped about all my rings.

Recommendation: It's a small thing to some... but try to gather data on your velocities at two different temperatures, as far apart as possible. It may make a difference. Some powders are temp sensitive. I try to gather data on about everything I shoot through my gun, even if they are just "cheap" factory loads I'm using to break in a barrel or get on paper. Yes, I do a brief break-in. It may not be required. But it pleases me to do it.

My set-up, by the way, is a Tikka T3X TACT-A1 in 6.5 Creedmoor and a 24 inch barrel (factory). Leupold Mark 5 HD 5-25 with Horus Tremor 3. Spuhr base (20 MOA). Thunderbeast Ultra 7.

Looking to add: ARCA rail under the front and a bipod. Buying a tripod set up. Because it pleases me.

Initial ammo (as I'm still setting up reloading stuff after years of dormancy) - Hornady TAP 147's ... if they shoot well.

[Palmetto Bug]

FLS,
How do you "true your BC"? How is BC calculated anyway? I just have to rely on what is says from the manufacturer.
Truing velocity at range would require a radar chrono, wouldn't it? I guess I could set mine up at a distance and try to shoot through the shades but I'm not quite that confident.

Swamp,
I didn't consider how the powder acts at different temps but cold air is definitely denser than hot air. I have assumed my calculator takes that into account since it has inputs for temp, humidity, barometric pressure, etc. I do see a slight change in holdovers if I change the temp from 95 degrees to 32 degrees. Conversely from what I expected, it is supposed to be flatter in cold air.

A difference in the powder burn rate because of temp seems like it would show up on the chrono.

[b-stick]

FLS,
How do you "true your BC"? How is BC calculated anyway? I just have to rely on what is says from the manufacturer.
Truing velocity at range would require a radar chrono, wouldn't it? I guess I could set mine up at a distance and try to shoot through the shades but I'm not quite that confident.

Swamp,
I didn't consider how the powder acts at different temps but cold air is definitely denser than hot air. I have assumed my calculator takes that into account since it has inputs for temp, humidity, barometric pressure, etc. I do see a slight change in holdovers if I change the temp from 95 degrees to 32 degrees. Conversely from what I expected, it is supposed to be flatter in cold air.

A difference in the powder burn rate because of temp seems like it would show up on the chrono.

Adjusting the BC and MV in your solver to match your dope chart. Some powders are more temp stable than others. Alliant powders can be extremely temp sensitive while most of the hogdons are not that bad. Reloader 17 was like 2-3 FPS every degree or so if I remember right. My hogdon loads could swing 30-40 degrees without an noticeable difference. My 7 rem mag load for winter can not be shot during summer do to pressure issues. My 6.5x47L loads can be used all year long including in rain.

Also you will see a difference in “dry” vs “moist” powder. Leave powder in your hopper for a few days, load a few rounds and then pull powder straight from the jug and load a few rounds. The powder from your hopper will be hotter and faster than the jug powder.

[WhitewaterDuck]

I think you are correct regarding muzzle blast. We are at the very beginning of this process, and the initial dope chart will be used as additional info in the dialing in process. We have a long way to go, a lot of powder to burn, and a lot of practicing under varying weather and terrain conditions to go before a final dope chart is constructed.

[Tha Dick]

Buy the StrelokPro app ($14 or something like that). Enter your rifle and bullet information and approx muzzle velocity. There’s a trajectory validation/ truing feature in the app.

Example: On the factory ammo it says 1820fps MV, the chart says dial 7.8mil for 1000yard shot. You end up confirming it’s .2mil low. You go into the truing function and enter your distance (1000) and then enter your elevation (8.0mil) and hit calculate. It will do the algorithm to produce your calculated MV which would be lower (ie: 1790fps). It’s really that easy. It will change the entire chart to reflect the new velocity.

You want to true as far as you can before the bullet goes transonic. Example: my 6.5 goes transonic at approx 1370fps, perfect situation I’d true at 1300. I’ve always just trued at 1000 and have never had any issues.

For barrel break in IMO it’s far more important to get all the crap out of the new barrel than worrying about a perfect barrel break in. I’ll clean the shat out of it first thing, then fire about 5-10 rounds through it while I’m zeroing. Then I’ll run some patches through it till they come out clean, then I just go about my busy as usual.

Make sure to get good carbon fiber cleaning rod and good bore guide. I like butch’s bore shine for regular cleaning and ISSO bore paste for getting the carbon ring out after a bunch of firings. (Approx 200-300 in my 6.5) the bigger magnum cartridges will build up quicker.


Example chart from my 6.5. Notice is says 7.3mil for 1000yards. Let’s say I actually had to dial 7.4 for a center hit.

366DF1F7-A7C1-461A-97A1-6314BB9A6B0A.png

I’d then go to the trajectory validation function and punch in my distance and elevation and hit calculate. It would then give me my calculated MV and the I could select “use this speed” and boom I’m done. Trued at 1000yards.


F8193C32-6431-42EF-99CA-5561CA3F8EF1.png

[Tha Dick]

In StrelokPro for different weather conditions you can either use the weather off the internet (closest weather station) or link it with a Kestrel via Bluetooth for weather conditions right where you stand. It will change the chart to match the current weather conditions and density altitude (altitude, temperature, relative humidity, station pressure, etc). Really there is no need for several different charts or apps. Myself and most of the competition shooters I know like the StrelokPro app over any of the rest. Between July through January I usually don’t see but approx.1mil variation @ 1000yards between the weather temps. If you want to drop some mo cash, jump into the Kestrel Elite. It's a ballistic calculator with built in weather meter. I use the Kestrel more than StrelokPro for hunting and competition.

[FLS]

FLS,
How do you "true your BC"? How is BC calculated anyway? I just have to rely on what is says from the manufacturer.
Truing velocity at range would require a radar chrono, wouldn't it? I guess I could set mine up at a distance and try to shoot through the shades but I'm not quite that confident.

Swamp,
I didn't consider how the powder acts at different temps but cold air is definitely denser than hot air. I have assumed my calculator takes that into account since it has inputs for temp, humidity, barometric pressure, etc. I do see a slight change in holdovers if I change the temp from 95 degrees to 32 degrees. Conversely from what I expected, it is supposed to be flatter in cold air.

A difference in the powder burn rate because of temp seems like it would show up on the chrono.

I paint a line across the center of my target at 5-600 yds and shoot at that line. If im consistently grouping above the line my mv is higher than entered. Below the line its lower. Ill make an adjustment and shoot another group. When im grouping on the line my MV is correct. To true BC i do the same process but farther out. 800-1K. I had to do this with my Grendel.
Hornady claimed a .510 BC for the 123 AMAX. Its closer to .460. I knew i had a good MV but i would still be low at 800 +. Once i tuned the BC getting consistent hits past 800 was alot easier.
Hornady and Nosler tend to be overly optimistic, Berger and Sierra are more accurate with their estimates.

[Palmetto Bug]

Thank you for that explanation. That makes sense.

[FLS]

All tjis is assuming you, the load and the rifle are capable of producing consistent results. Also, if you dont shoot past 5-600 none of this means shit. You can be off you muzzle velocity by 100 fps and still be minute of deer accurate.

[Palmetto Bug]

Yeah, this is all just academic to me. I don't need another fund sucking hobby like long range shooting.

[FLS]

If i was starting over i would build a fast twist 223. You can shoot it cheap, barrels last forever, with proper ammo you're good to 1K, and you will learn to read wind, way better than a faster flatter round.

[WhitewaterDuck]

Thanks for all the info. Good Stuff.

[FLS]

WD, your dry thin WY air is a significant advantage at long range. That WY wind sucks though. I passed a NICE muley at 500 yds because the wind was gusting to 30 MPH. Just couldnt do it. Last evening of my hunt, and he was the best one I had seen all week.

[nitro5x6's]

If i was starting over i would build a fast twist 223. You can shoot it cheap, barrels last forever, with proper ammo you're good to 1K, and you will learn to read wind, way better than a faster flatter round.

I am sho nuf diggin my Tikka CTR .223

Great rifle so far.

[WhitewaterDuck]

WD, your dry thin WY air is a significant advantage at long range. That WY wind sucks though. I passed a NICE muley at 500 yds because the wind was gusting to 30 MPH. Just couldnt do it. Last evening of my hunt, and he was the best one I had seen all week.

Yup. It’s going to take practice and experience. The doc outfitter out here relies on technology and experience and he had me out glassing last December when the wind was a steady 50+ and gusting well over 75. I asked him if there was any reason to be out there, and he pulled his mobile weather station and wind-o-meter and confidently said, “no problem.” No way I was going to take a shot of any significant distance, but we never saw a bull that tempted us.

Jeremy has the tech, but he has always relied on feel and looking at trees/grass etc when I’ve shot with him, and he’s good at it. I figure I won’t be taking any 600+ yard shots at game unless the wind is consistent and relatively mild until I have a lot of range experience under my belt and a good bit of field experience with wind at distance while hunting with someone I trust in those situations.

The good news is that the wind doesn’t get consistently strong here until mid-late December. It may blow 50-70 for a day or two, but it doesn’t persist. Once they start blowing in December, it is on until April/May.