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Thread: Unwinding the Pop

  1. #1
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    Default Unwinding the Pop

    I've been working with a dog of mine pretty intently on cleaning up her blinds. We've gone back and run drills for cleaner initial lines, drills for casting, and so on. I'll admit, that during some of this I may have put a little too much pressure (not collar pressure) on running blinds. To combat this, I've gone back to running some confidence blinds, fun marks, etc. However, she seems to be popping a bit lately when a difficult or long blind comes up.

    How do you guys typically go about dealing with this without creating more pressure?
    "This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you." John 15:12

    "Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord." Hebrews 12:14

  2. #2
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    I would just send a kid to pick up the real dead bird when I'm hunting. Dogs are supposed to be fun. Sounds like you're worrying too much.

  3. #3
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    The kids (age 3 and 1) aren't taking hand signals near as well as the dog at this point. Gotta make do until then.
    "This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you." John 15:12

    "Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord." Hebrews 12:14

  4. #4
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    How far are the long blinds?
    I want my dog to pop every once in a while on a long blind, I don’t want a robot.

    Scale it back and extend range when the dog gets it?

    Or just don’t shoot birds as far, you know with all the buzz and all about these tungsten and bismuth lethality being too effective…
    Last edited by FULLCHOKE; 05-09-2022 at 01:53 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MolliesMaster View Post
    The kids (age 3 and 1) aren't taking hand signals near as well as the dog at this point. Gotta make do until then.
    Haha- I got a good laugh from this
    Cravin' me some boiled p-nuts

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    Y’all don’t know shit about fuck.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by MolliesMaster View Post
    I've been working with a dog of mine pretty intently on cleaning up her blinds. We've gone back and run drills for cleaner initial lines, drills for casting, and so on. I'll admit, that during some of this I may have put a little too much pressure (not collar pressure) on running blinds. To combat this, I've gone back to running some confidence blinds, fun marks, etc. However, she seems to be popping a bit lately when a difficult or long blind comes up.

    How do you guys typically go about dealing with this without creating more pressure?
    I think that's hard to answer with the information provided. What kind of drills were you doing and what kind of pressure were you putting on the dog when you think you overdid it? Has the dog gone through a traditional force program to get to this point?

    In my experience, dogs pop for a number of different reasons. The best way to remedy it depends on the root of the behavior and what tools you have available through your training up to this point.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quack07 View Post
    I think that's hard to answer with the information provided. What kind of drills were you doing and what kind of pressure were you putting on the dog when you think you overdid it? Has the dog gone through a traditional force program to get to this point?

    In my experience, dogs pop for a number of different reasons. The best way to remedy it depends on the root of the behavior and what tools you have available through your training up to this point.

    IMO, she is popping because her confidence is down. I've put pressure on her over the last few months by nit-picking her in all the drills we have run: push-pulls, wagon wheels, KRD's, W-drill, etc. Yes, she has been through a traditional force fetch program. She's 5 years old, she knows how to run blinds. I've just been asking more from her lately.

    I have my own ideas on how to fix this and I'm not overly concerned about the dog or the popping. I was asking the question to hear what others had to say, to see if there were any new ideas or methods I could learn from.
    "This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you." John 15:12

    "Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord." Hebrews 12:14

  8. #8
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    Understood. I just didn’t want to give a blanket answer without having more context. I enjoy dog discussion and wish there was more on here. I’ll try my best to describe a “drill” I use when starting a dog on cold blinds and when I’m trying to fix a dog in your exact situation.

    Find a flat, featureless field with little to no cover. Put out several piles of bumpers along the tree line on the far edge of the field. So if the end of the field is say 100 yards wide, I’m probably going to have 4-5 maybe even 6 bumpers strung out across the edge of the field. You and dog start at the opposite end and you run the dog on a “blind” to that end tree line where the bumpers are. Don’t nit pick on getting the dog perfectly lined up, don’t nit pick on initial line, sit the dog beside you in the general direction of that 100 yard wide field edge, use your regular verbal cues that you do to run a blind, and kick the dog off. Let the dog run, as long as he/she is headed somewhere in the general direction of that tree line, let the dog roll. After kicking the dog off, I always walk out behind the dog as they are rolling, if the dog pops, I just simply give a back cast to whatever side gets the dog back towards the middle of the field and use verbal. No pressure whatsoever. In my experience with doing this, the more the dog runs without you blowing the whistle or popping, the more confident they become in their self. Run it a couple times and pickup a few of the bumpers. Come back the next day and I’d do the same exact thing but from the opposite end of the field so you aren’t turning them into pattern blinds.

  9. #9
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    I'm a big fan of walk-out blinds to build confidence especially with harder, more technical blinds. Pretty simple to do, just let the dog come with you when you plant a few blinds. When they come back to the line, they know something is out there and the general area - thus are more confident. Generally, you will have to cast less and correct less on walk-out blinds which will improve a dog's confidence. Probably won't hear many pros suggest this tip because generally they have too many dogs and it can be time consuming.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quack07 View Post
    Understood. I just didn’t want to give a blanket answer without having more context. I enjoy dog discussion and wish there was more on here. I’ll try my best to describe a “drill” I use when starting a dog on cold blinds and when I’m trying to fix a dog in your exact situation.

    Find a flat, featureless field with little to no cover. Put out several piles of bumpers along the tree line on the far edge of the field. So if the end of the field is say 100 yards wide, I’m probably going to have 4-5 maybe even 6 bumpers strung out across the edge of the field. You and dog start at the opposite end and you run the dog on a “blind” to that end tree line where the bumpers are. Don’t nit pick on getting the dog perfectly lined up, don’t nit pick on initial line, sit the dog beside you in the general direction of that 100 yard wide field edge, use your regular verbal cues that you do to run a blind, and kick the dog off. Let the dog run, as long as he/she is headed somewhere in the general direction of that tree line, let the dog roll. After kicking the dog off, I always walk out behind the dog as they are rolling, if the dog pops, I just simply give a back cast to whatever side gets the dog back towards the middle of the field and use verbal. No pressure whatsoever. In my experience with doing this, the more the dog runs without you blowing the whistle or popping, the more confident they become in their self. Run it a couple times and pickup a few of the bumpers. Come back the next day and I’d do the same exact thing but from the opposite end of the field so you aren’t turning them into pattern blinds.
    I like that idea. I usually use bucket drills to build confidence back. Dog locks on to a big white bucket out there, they know what's going on. But I like your idea because it continues with that idea of driving across the field.
    "This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you." John 15:12

    "Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord." Hebrews 12:14

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by sctigers11 View Post
    I'm a big fan of walk-out blinds to build confidence especially with harder, more technical blinds. Pretty simple to do, just let the dog come with you when you plant a few blinds. When they come back to the line, they know something is out there and the general area - thus are more confident. Generally, you will have to cast less and correct less on walk-out blinds which will improve a dog's confidence. Probably won't hear many pros suggest this tip because generally they have too many dogs and it can be time consuming.
    I do walkouts for younger dogs, too. I really like them. Have you ever sat the dog at the pile you walked out to, walked back to the mat, and recalled them all the way to you in a straight line? Sometimes I do this when there is some cheaty water or a certain obstacle I want them to hit-push through.

    For this dog though, her confidence is not in knowing if something is out there, I think she is more afraid of making a mistake.
    "This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you." John 15:12

    "Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord." Hebrews 12:14

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MolliesMaster View Post
    I like that idea. I usually use bucket drills to build confidence back. Dog locks on to a big white bucket out there, they know what's going on. But I like your idea because it continues with that idea of driving across the field.
    I use buckets in certain situations, but in my opinion that confidence doesn’t always translate to a “cold” situation like you are going to see in a test or a hunting situation. Couple things I left out. I initially do this drill on a field I can run the dog 200+ yards. Because like I said, the more you can run the dog without bothering him, the more confidence he builds. And white bumpers, the last thing I want after the dog runs all the way across the field is to have a hard time finding an orange bumper at the end. Finish the blind confidently.

  13. #13
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    No, I've never have sat the dog at the pile a recalled when back at the mat. Typically, I will put out 3 blinds if doing walk-outs with all three blinds repeating the same concept. Going to be hard to do with summer here but use ducks instead of bumpers. Simplify and don't nitpick her line. Just FYI, this doesn't have to be a young dog only drill...I've seen FC's and QAA dogs benefit greatly from this.
    Last edited by sctigers11; 05-09-2022 at 03:51 PM.

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