The skinnee for 07/17/2007 (Team Avet on Board)

[SkinneeJ]

Greg, myself, Phin, McMarine headed way south to scout a few loran conversions that Phin had. We got so far south, we even ran into Edisto Fisher and his crew out there. Overall, fishing was pretty slow for us. We managed several black bass on rod and reel, nothing too exciting. Greg and I hopped in the water for a couple of dives and visibility was pretty poor. The thermocline took my breath away for a second when we hit it at 45 feet. We got to the bottom and landed on top of 4 lobsters having a business meeting. We grabbed a couple and had to let a couple go. We found a few more later on the dive. Visibility made it hard to track wounded fish and we lost several nice gags. I lost a spear on a 18+ fish. Greg and I also saw the future state record trigger fish. He was a beast, but we let him live for the hook and liners. Then we did another dive. The viz was slightly better, but we had much less fish on it. I saw the biggest angel fish that I had ever seen. It was probably 10 lbs. We tracked a few grouper and then it happened. The biggest stingray that I had even seen flew in. He was probably 8 feet across his wingspan which provided nice shade for the 8 or so cobia swimming underneath him. I waved "hello" at the cobias since I had already lost one shaft that day, but greg decided he wanted a piece of one. He shot and planted a solid spear in him. The cobia went berserk and layed upside down on the sand for a second playing dead. Greg went for some "insurance" and reloaded and put spear #2 in him. This fish was going no where with a cross stitch of spears in him. That's what we thought just before the fish came back to life, righted himself and swam away with $60 worth of new jewelry.

Shooting was just not a skill that I had yesterday. I even let a couple of nice gags go because my gun was tangled up in my BC and couldn't get it out fast enough. Also, I ran across a nice "doormat" flounder. I was going to poke him and when I turned my gun upside down, my spare shaft fell out and poked him first and he darted away. I already had some Zatarain's plans for him. I couldn't catch a break. One would have thought it was my first time with a gun.

Fun crew on board, but we only ended up with 3 grouper and 4 lobsters for the day (we released all BSB's even though pretty much all of the ones we caught were keepers).

[Swamp Rat]

Sounds like a fun day... glad that triggerfish didn't bite ya Read this morning that that seems to be the trend.

[SkinneeJ]

Yeah, I saw that. I had one hovering around my ear last year and had to poke him a few times. I've also heard of a grown man that had one latched on the skin between his fingers and in intense pain almost in tears. Those things are no joke. Sounds like those other guys experienced exploritory nibbles, but I hear they can really get you good if they want.

[JABIII]

Dayum. Now I have to add triggerfish to the list of things underwater that I am scared of. Saltwater catfish topping the list...

[SkinneeJ]

Don't feel bad. I am scared of dolphins too. They look so cute and cuddly until they come buzzing around you at 30 mph while you are doing your safety stop. I had 3 circling me so fast I couldn't have done anything if they wanted to ram me. The guys on the boat were looking down at me and said that one of the dolphin would come in towards my back at a good clip and at the last second veer off just before he hit me. I wasn't amused by any of it...

The toughts that were going through my head were:

a) I hope they don't try to mate with me...
b) I hope they aren't protecting me from something else.
c) Wow they are going too fast.
d) What in the fuck do they want from me?
e) Should I ditch my safety stop? I will stay here until I see teeth or a big dolphin penis chasing me...
f) I like them better from the surface.

[JABIII]

The most frightening creature in the sea...



My top 10 list-

1. Saltwater Catfish

2. Saltwater Catfish

3. Old soviet sunken nuclear subs with live nukes

4. Really pissed off bull shark

5. Really hungry tiger shark

6. Box jellyfish

7. Cone snail

8. Moray Eel

9. Any spider looking crabs

10. One of those free jumping white sharks

[Swamp Rat]

I found it interesting that saltwater cats are now essentially protected in SC. Can't keep any at all.

I have a friend whose ex-wife worked at the zoo in the ARC (Aquarium Reptile Complex) - part of her job was as a diver / fish feeder there. She got tagged by a short-sighted moray one day. Got real infected...

The things in SC waters (salt)that I am leery of (not particularly in order) - sting rays, bull or tiger sharks, and genuinely dangerous jellys. I have learned recently also that the leatherjackets that sometimes turn up in cast nets can light you up as well. There's lots of stuff in saltwater that can get your attention... adds to the flavor of it . I've been telling my son (who was taught on freshwater fish) that, with FEW exceptions, you don't lip shit in saltwater.

[SkinneeJ]

We wear full length wetsuits and kevlar gloves for protection. I have about 1 inch around my ankles where my suit is a little short and exposes skin. I have a nasty little rash on there that was either from a jelly or fire coral. I also get lit up under the chin sometimes from jellies on the way down. You are right though. Don't stick your bare hand in a saltwater fish's mouth. The other thing you have to worry about is the dorsal fins sticking you and their gill plates. The gill plates on a lot of bottom dwellers are as sharp as razor blades and will slice you up pretty bad if you don't have gloves.

[Swamp Rat]

Yep, I have a full body wet suit that I believe strongly in.

When night diving in Jamaica years ago, I surfaced in the midst of some floating jellies. They lit me up pretty good. The dive master warned us not to turn on our lights on the surface, as they would move to the lights. I obeyed, still got lit up. (But I love night diving still).

Full wet suit, gloves, booties. I hate exposed heel fins without booties.

Ya'll ever see lionfish off SC? I've heard they are here...

[SkinneeJ]

If you night dive, then you are more of a man than I...

Yes, lionfish are pretty much on every reef now. I usually see 1-2 per dive.

[Green Heads Only]

I can tell you the worst I've been bit was by what I thought was a dead trigger I was trying to remove from my spear. One little twitch of that beak right in the palm of my hand and it was as if someone had taken a pair of razer sharp cutting pliers and grabbed a big hunk of flesh with them. Sickeningly gory bloody results. Had to stay out of the water after that for fear of sharks. I've learned my lesson...for life.

[Swamp Rat]

Dang, GHO, that sounds painful as hell.

I like night diving in freshwater where there are no gators and I have at least a little vis, or saltwater with good (30+ foot) vis. But I haven't done it here. In Jamaica, there was a distinct lack of large predator fish on the reefs we dove. Of course, at night, it might have been different - beyond the coverage of our lights, it would have been hard to tell. Lobsters and squid were a lot more prevalent. Our deepest night dive was 45 feet - no big shakes (the deepest day dive was a wall, with the top at 40 feet and the bottom was out of sight down to deep blue... we were at 80 feet on the wall - vis was over 100 feet easy).

[Swamp Rat]

Gotta have a light. I'm Jonesin' for a HID...

[Fish]

Originally posted by SkinneeJ:
Visibility made it hard to track wounded fish and we lost several nice gags. I lost a spear on a 18+ fish.

Tracking wounded fish? [img]graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Why in hell would you need to track a fish? Oh I know why. Skinflute here thinks he's cool and he doesn't need to use tethers or to consider the fish in this equation. He's above that.

Those fish (now dead because of your stupidity) should have been attached to your gun by a tether. Please explain to me why you think you don't need a tether. I would say based on your own words that you need tethers for certain and that those fish deserved better.

Originally posted by SkinneeJ:
I waved "hello" at the cobias since I had already lost one shaft that day, but greg decided he wanted a piece of one. He shot and planted a solid spear in him. The cobia went berserk and layed upside down on the sand for a second playing dead. Greg went for some "insurance" and reloaded and put spear #2 in him. This fish was going no where with a cross stitch of spears in him. That's what we thought just before the fish came back to life, righted himself and swam away with $60 worth of new jewelry.

Here we go again. So both you of assholes are down there chunking shafts at every moving object without a means to reel it in or even stop it? What in the fuck are you thinking dude?

The real show-stopper for me was that last bit about this assclown buddy of yours shooting a cobia without a tether. Are you kidding me? That is absolutely THE dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Originally posted by SkinneeJ:
Shooting was just not a skill that I had yesterday.

Skills? I don't think so. It's not a matter of skill. You AIN'T skilled enough to stone every fish every time. Nobody can do that. It was completely irresponsible of you to set up your gear that way. That is wanton waste and I'm surprised that no one else has called you on it. You should know better than to do that shit.

[SkinneeJ]

It's always nice to get into a good debate about spear fishing with someone who doesn't participate in the sport!

A line shaft has it's drawbacks too. A fish can't pull himself off of a free shaft, but they easily pull themself off of lineshaft (difference in having something to pull against). I seldom lose shafts. I've lost 3 of them in 80+ spear dives. That's not too bad. I first started with a tether and lost just as many fish (if not more). With a freeshaft, you can reload as the fish is floundering around and shoot his ass again.

Really, the only advantage to using a line shaft is to not risk losing the $30+ shaft. It does nothing in terms of helping you to land more fish. It's much slower to reload. It's much slower to get the fish off the shaft and onto your stringer, and it's much easier to get into trouble with a line shaft.

Safety first. I didn't shoot at the cobia because I knew what the chances of killing it were. I can't control what my dive buddy does and I am not going to jump between him and the cobia and take a spear for "team PETA". Do you khow what happens to guys who get a good plant on a cobia with a line shaft? They have a few options:

1) Get their ass drug all over the ocean.
2) Have the gun pulled out of their hands and kiss $350 goodbye.
3) Get wrapped up by the line and have their mask beaten off of their face by a cobia that has a 5 foot metal spike in them! NO THANKS!!!

Safety first.

[SkinneeJ]

I forgot one more scenario. If a 12' tiger shark comes in and tries to eat me, I don't want a line on my gun when I shoot him. I would rather him just take off with a loose shaft in his gills. Then, by the time he comes back, I will be reloaded with something that goes "POP" when it hit's him.

[Fish]

First off Skinny, I've already smoked your ass on this topic. You're on the defensive and you have no where to go but down. However, since you decided to try me on this, so I'm gonna go ahead and finish your sorry ass off.

Originally posted by SkinneeJ:
It's always nice to get into a good debate about spear fishing with someone who doesn't participate in the sport!

Right out of the gate son, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. I've been diving since the late 80s, I am currently a PADI divemaster, and I spearfish...dickhead. In fact, I used to spearfish back when powerheads were legal in SC waters. Do yourself a favor and never assume anything when it comes to me.

Originally posted by SkinneeJ:
A line shaft has it's drawbacks too. A fish can't pull himself off of a free shaft, but they easily pull themself off of lineshaft (difference in having something to pull against).

Blah blah blah....

One simple truth that is completely void of the generalities you muttered above, can be said about a tether. And that is, a tether used will hold a fish better than a tether not used. Of all the fish I've ever speared, I can't remember pulling off a decent fish that I couldn't get later.

Originally posted by SkinneeJ:
I seldom lose shafts. I've lost 3 of them in 80+ spear dives. That's not too bad. I first started with a tether and lost just as many fish (if not more). With a freeshaft, you can reload as the fish is floundering around and shoot his ass again.

Bullshit! In your own words, between the two of you, there was a total of three (3) lost on that day. Count em! So, I'm thinking seldon is a fairly inaccurate description of the situation. Either way, 3 shafts in 80+ dives is too many to lose and not using a tether promotes the loss of fish and shafts as can be summarized from your own words right here.

To take it a step further, knowing that you had poor visability for "tracking" and choosing to shoot fish anyway further illustrates just how poor your decision making can be and was last Tuesday.

Originally posted by SkinneeJ:
Really, the only advantage to using a line shaft is to not risk losing the $30+ shaft. It does nothing in terms of helping you to land more fish.

NO. The advantage is to save a fish (your little gay comment about PETA notwithstanding) that you made the decision to shoot and kill. You are arguing with someone who knows better son...and you ain't gonna pass this bullshit off as acceptable.

Originally posted by SkinneeJ:
It's much slower to reload. It's much slower to get the fish off the shaft and onto your stringer, and it's much easier to get into trouble with a line shaft.

Restringing your gun is part of the game. It's the responsible part. You are not being fair to the resource when you take shortcuts. But you are showing fully that you don't give a damn about that. Funny thing, it wasn't very long ago that you were paying considerable lip service to some guys for being "meat hogs". Right now, I don't see the difference between the two of you.

Originally posted by SkinneeJ:
Safety first.

You want safety? Stay out of the fucking water and leave the fish alone. Diving is inherently dangerous and so is swimming with sharp objects.

Seriously, if you were really worried about safety, you would be worried about things like embolisms, decompression sickness, or some other such thing that typically occurs to assholes who take shortcuts.

Originally posted by SkinneeJ:
I didn't shoot at the cobia because I knew what the chances of killing it were. I can't control what my dive buddy does and I am not going to jump between him and the cobia and take a spear for "team PETA".

NO. Below is a quote from your first post. In it, you ellude to the reason why you didn't take an irresponsible whack at one of the cobias.

Originally posted by SkinneeJ:
"I waved "hello" at the cobias since I had already lost one shaft that day, but greg decided he wanted a piece of one."

Originally posted by SkinneeJ:
Do you khow what happens to guys who get a good plant on a cobia with a line shaft? They have a few options:

1) Get their ass drug all over the ocean.
2) Have the gun pulled out of their hands and kiss $350 goodbye.
3) Get wrapped up by the line and have their mask beaten off of their face by a cobia that has a 5 foot metal spike in them! NO THANKS!!!

Every bit of that shit you posted above is horseshit. Getting drug all over the ocean, losing your gun, getting wrapped up....horseshit, all of it! You guys just don't know how to make very good decisions. Those are traits most commonly found in truck drivers and children. You are irresponsible. Shooting a cobia or anything with anything less than a full tether is plain ol' stupid.

[SkinneeJ]

I'll fully admit that I am not the best shot with a speargun. That's a given. I've only been doing it for a couple of years now. Practice makes perfect. I hope to get better and better each time. It was not my intent to wound a few fish. It's not really any different then someone with poor shot placement on a duck, dove, or deer that causes them to lose a crippled animal. It's also not much differnt from you reeling up a fish from 180', inverting his contents and then "throwing him back". We all hate it and it makes us sick to our stomach, but that didn't stop YOU from hunting or commercial fishing, did it?

Then again, I don't want to ASSUME anything about you. But since you are the one bitching, it's probably safe for me to ASSUME that you have never crippled an animal or killed a fish that you didn't keep. You have dropped 100% of everything that you ever shot at. You are also the only commercial guy that has never had a trail of vermillion and undersized snappers floating behind the boat. What about those sails that you released? 0% mortality rate??? You are amazing. You are like the sportsman messiah!

Did you use a tether with your powerheads? I would LOVE to use powerheads in SC. Please bring them back. Why don't you tell the class why you liked to use them?

When you posted a quote about me not electing to shoot the cobia, that did demonstrate that I was at least trying to use some responsibility, correct? If I was completely irresponsible, I would have taken a shot at it, anyway. Thanks for helping me out with that one. I don't even know what you were trying to acheive there, but you demonstrated my use of self-restraint to resist shooting a fish that I didn't think I could land. I appreciate that.

Also, I only lost ONE shaft that day. That is included in my 3 shaft count for the past year. Like I said, what my dive buddy does or loses is on him. Freeshafters lose shafts. That's why they buy extras.

If you don't think that you can get your ass whipped by a big fish on a line shaft, go out to google and search for stories about cobia and amberjack on a lineshaft. When you find stories, look for phrases like "had the shit beat out of me", and "got my mask knocked off", and "taken for a ride". If you can't find any then I will publicly admit that I am stupid.

And yes, sometimes I do make poor decisions. I suppose I will never grow out of that.

[SkinneeJ]

Even though I totally respect your 0% mortality rate outside of intended catch even though you were a commercial fisherman and never lost a fish on the spear... I did want to ask you one more question...

How in the world did you get so good? Were you just born that way? I mean you had to be, right? There was no trial and error for Mr Fish. There couldn't have been this ramp up period where you weren't as good as a shot and then you got better over time. You probably came out of your mothers womb with some fine shooting skills. Also as a commercial guy (okay, I lied. It is more than just one question), how do you ensure that you only reel up keepers on the bandit? Is there some way that you can rig your baits so that only legal fish get brought to the surface so you don't have to throw back the little ones that eventually die from decompression stress? Do tell...

[sprigdog]

damn. reached back and slapped the ho'

pretty hypocritical for a guy who started his scducks career slammin a fellow who kept a limit of spadefish.

it was raining and getting dark, the tracking conditions sucked so i just kept slinging arrows at deer until one fell over in his tracks.

gags, cobia, deer, its all the same.

and nope, i dont know ANYTHING about spear fishing or bow hunting, but i do know wanton waste when i read it on the www