Red Snapper Season

[Southernduck]

a tea party in Boston harbor worked, I am down for a fish fry.

[Jscrapmetal]

Some of y'all just need to learn to outlaw. Hell, telling .gov to F off, i'm having a fish fry, is just another form of patriotism.

This right here. Learn to fillet and release.

[wob]

Has the government ever successfully managed anything back to health? I can only think of 2 things in the last 50 years, the grey wolf (the wrong species nonetheless) and the grizzly bear. Most wouldn't call those wins.

Alligators, California Condors, and Bald Eagles come to mind.

[duckcrazed]

The problem with red snapper isn't the numbers alone, the biggest problem is the age/size structure. In the 60's and 70's there were a heck of a lot of older and larger fish...up to 40 years old. Now there's a pile of young fish, no one is arguing that...but medium and old fish are rare. Therein lies the problem, all available management is based on having a mix of size classes represented in the population, with healthly popualtions having young fish far more abundant, and medium age mature fish abundant, and older fish (20-40) less abundant, but all age classes present. The models used to assess populations place a good amount of weight on that age structure being present...hence the rebuilding timeframe. I'm glad I don't have to work on that species...it's a powder keg for sure, and it's hard to pass on the importance of age structure when folks can catch them left and right.

Plenty of examples of recovered fisheries out there as well...all that said, don't shoot the messenger. If the forecast improves, I'll be out there Sat and Sun.

[b35w]

The problem with red snapper isn't the numbers alone, the biggest problem is the age/size structure. In the 60's and 70's there were a heck of a lot of older and larger fish...up to 40 years old. Now there's a pile of young fish, no one is arguing that...but medium and old fish are rare. Therein lies the problem, all available management is based on having a mix of size classes represented in the population, with healthly popualtions having young fish far more abundant, and medium age mature fish abundant, and older fish (20-40) less abundant, but all age classes present. The models used to assess populations place a good amount of weight on that age structure being present...hence the rebuilding timeframe. I'm glad I don't have to work on that species...it's a powder keg for sure, and it's hard to pass on the importance of age structure when folks can catch them left and right.

Plenty of examples of recovered fisheries out there as well...all that said, don't shoot the messenger. If the forecast improves, I'll be out there Sat and Sun.

Do we have an accurate snapshot of what the actual numbers were back then or are we hypothesizing? If having fewer breading fish is a hurdle then a slot limit should be implemented like they did on spottail. You are letting the “breader” fish live and still get to eat some for dinner.


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[BOGSTER]

The most prevalent size I run into (everywhere) is about 10lbs.

Is that breeding size B?

[b35w]

The most prevalent size I run into (everywhere) is about 10lbs.

Is that breeding size B?

I’m not sure what is actually considered breeding size I am just going under the assumption that larger fish produce more eggs. I have heard they actually spawn at a young age by I can’t state that as 100% fact.


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[duckcrazed]

Yeah, 10lbs definitely mature, that’s probably around ~5 yo fish. B35, correct on both accounts.

[BOGSTER]

There’s no shortage of that size fish from any piece of bottom I’ve dropped on from the GTH to the bottom end of EB over the last 6 years.

90ft out to 180.

[whitty]

I won’t pretend to say I know everything about red snapper but I can tell you for a fact that they have become a major pest when bottom fishing. I never thought a red snapper would be a pest but just about everywhere I go you can’t get a bait to the bottom because of them. Yes I do catch some smaller ones but I also catch a bunch of very large ones too.

[duckcrazed]

There’s no shortage of that size fish from any piece of bottom I’ve dropped on from the GTH to the bottom end of EB over the last 6 years.

90ft out to 180.

No arguing that, and those fish are definitely mature, but fish over 10 years old are largely absent. The 30-40lbers used to be frequently captured. The assessment models sees those missing as well as post-release mortality of released fish which points towards an overfished stock. The managers are constrained by the more restrictive rules under the Magnuson Steven’s reauthorization, so hands are tied until stock assessment results indicate they are no longer overfished.

[b35w]

Another thing that bothers me about the whole situation is that we are grouped in with other states. All things are not created equal. We have less people fishing out of SC and a much further run to get to optimal depth.

Why would you group 2 or more very different fisheries into the same regulations? Just because it is federal waters doesn’t mean habitat and pressure are the same. Just my opinion.


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[scdiver]

It's tough to grouper fish in less than 120ft due to snappers.

A few weeks ago, the first ledge I dove was all ARS. Not a single grouper.

I can remember when they were not as prevalent as they are now. Some kind of balance would be nice.

When was the last time you caught a puddin head, firetruck red grouper?

I think the ARS ate them all and their babies.

[b35w]

No arguing that, and those fish are definitely mature, but fish over 10 years old are largely absent. The 30-40lbers used to be frequently captured. The assessment models sees those missing as well as post-release mortality of released fish which points towards an overfished stock. The managers are constrained by the more restrictive rules under the Magnuson Steven’s reauthorization, so hands are tied until stock assessment results indicate they are no longer overfished.

Was an assessment done last year due to COVID?


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[mudnut1970]

Going to Louisiana fishing with the voodoo crew in three weeks. The red snapper season goes out the day before we get there. That sucks the last time we went we brought a cooler full of filets. They are some good eating fish. So wahoo and tuna are the kill list.

[scdiver]

Hopefully the Seaqualized fish are recaptured showing mortality is not 90+%. Then we can utilize and have a healthier stock. .

Did we catch all of the big ones? Or did they get smarter?

[Palmetto Pride]

10# red snappers have viable roe and a really are considered breeders

[duckcrazed]

They’ve been slowly overfished for decades, can was kicked down the road until Magnusson Stevenson act was reauthorized which required feds to end overfishing.

B35, they have to be managed at the population/stock level, this is based on genetics/movement data.

Assessments are expensive and take over a year and a pile of hours/people so they’re aren’t done every year. Some species may only be assessed every 10 years whereas as species like red snapper are assessed more frequently due to pressure/backlash against regs

[b35w]

They’ve been slowly overfished for decades, can was kicked down the road until Magnusson Stevenson act was reauthorized which required feds to end overfishing.

B35, they have to be managed at the population/stock level, this is based on genetics/movement data.

Assessments are expensive and take over a year and a pile of hours/people so they’re aren’t done every year. Some species may only be assessed every 10 years whereas as species like red snapper are assessed more frequently due to pressure/backlash against regs

I guess my question would be if we all acknowledge that stock is increasing, regardless of whether or not an assessment was done, how do we end up with less day(s) than last year? From what I heard, there was no one that disagreed that the stock is rising. If the management is working, we should be adding days not subtracting. I know you are the messenger and can’t control it. There just has to be a more fair balance.


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[mudflat]

Murrells Inlet north and they aren't that prevalent in my fishing grounds.