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Thread: Well, Wyle E Coyoite caught the road-runner...

  1. #41
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    While I'm thinking about it, do any of you trad shooters overweight yourselves and use a short-draw/no anchor method of shooting? I did this with the bow pulling way heavier than I'm used to pulling with 3, four arrow groups. By the time I was on the last group, I was trying to draw more to full draw, and the last two arrows were not great, but still a kill on a whitetail, but the first 6 or 7 arrows were short draws and just pushing at the target and releasing prior to ever having a solid anchor, and I was throwing groups about the size of that painted dot into the other edge of the bale. Ryan Gill shoots this way, and anything that dood does as far as killing creatures with primitive stuff has some merit and is worth considering. This was accidental/happenstance for me, but I think I'm going to get the bow to 70# first and try flinging a bunch of arrows this way to see if the first shots were just an anomaly.

    I don't know all the pros and cons of shooting like that; Ryan just says its what works for him. I guess it never allows you, when you are shooting instinctively, to let the arrow tip in your peripheral vision and your brain (which always wants to aim) get in the way of just letting it fly instinctively. It also certainly frees up shooting from a bunch of positions especially in spot and stalk situations where traditional full draw and anchor shooting might not be possible.

    Anyhoo, if any of you shoot like this, tell me about it. Here is a vid of Ryan shooting a 70# at 26" bow with about a 22" draw. I've seen others shoot like this in random vids on the yootoob, and the folks all seem to shoot pretty lights out.

    Last edited by WhitewaterDuck; 07-12-2021 at 03:54 PM.
    There was a time between the excitement of first light/legal and the first wave of ducks we tried to coax in that I looked to the heavens and talked to Tripp; I donít think God lets conversations from earth taint the wonder that His children are experiencing in Heaven, but just in case, I had my say.

  2. #42
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    All that sounds like Charlie Brownís teacher talkingÖÖ

    But, I really admire your willingness, talent and effort in your quest! Itís awesome!
    HR CC's Leather and Lace (Lacy)

  3. #43
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    I actually use an ultralight hammock for backpack camping. My entire set up with sleeping bag and underquilt is less than 3 pounds. Every ounce will catch up to you so I would pay attention to that.

  4. #44
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    This is the most manly thing I've ever been a part of. I'm nervous for you, but in a good way. Wet Wipes!

  5. #45
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    Whatever heís doing, he does consistently. Thatís thousands of arrows to achieve that kind of muscle memory. I can shoot ď instinctiveĒ pretty well out to about 15-18 yards. Beyond that Iím a sight picture shooter. I donít consciously measure the gap but I do see it. You have to figure out what works for you. If you plan on shooting a 70 pound self bow enough to be proficient, buy Advil. Lots of it. Your bow arm elbow will appreciate it.
    Last edited by FLS; 07-13-2021 at 08:05 AM.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLS View Post
    Whatever he’s doing, he does consistently. That’s thousands of arrows to achieve that kind of muscle memory. I can shoot “ instinctive” pretty well out to about 15-18 yards. Beyond that I’m a sight picture shooter. I don’t consciously measure the gap but I do see it. You have to figure out what works for you. If you plan on shooting a 70 pound self bow enough to be proficient, buy Advil. Lots of it. Your bow arm elbow will appreciate it.
    No shit! I shoot moving and "flying" or tossed targets just like he's shooting and always have. I would never think of trying to draw to anchor to hit a flying target...would produce horrible results. I actually shoot at moving stuff because it actually improves my confidence, because while I may not be hitting the mark the majority of the time, I'm narrowly missing when I miss. I never seem to get the "what the hell was that" flyer. I'm not saying I'm going to leave it at 70, but I may start there to see how it goes. There is another vid showing and describing his style of shooting much better than that one, and Ill try to put it on here. Basically, he's on target from start of draw to release and the high poundage basically "rips" the string from his fingers at a certain point in the draw...which I'm equating to his "anchor point." He states that shooting like this eliminates the single major aspect, in my opinion, that induces the greatest amount of confidence-killing, form-falling-apart fuc up-ness in the shot cycle, and that is the conscious release of the arrow. If you relax your fingers, they are still hooked around the string and its hard to isolate just the muscles in the fingers to relax...you tend to relax other muscles and that results in problems. If you actively flip your fingers forward, that is a whole nother bunch of action that can result in an inconsistent mess. It seems to me like his method of letting the continued draw rip the string from the fingers would result in ideal follow-thru or follow-back preventing any symblance of collapse. Kind of like a natural back-tension release. I'm going to try it. Time will tell whether it was a good idea or not.

    If I forget the wet wipes, I'm going to be seriously pissed.

    I'm most torn on my sleep system. I know I want a 0 degree down bag; I'm just trying to figure out which one to go with. Beyond that, IDK. I'm leaning toward a hammock system, as I'm pretty sure any flat area is going to be next to impossible to find where I'm planning on concentrating my efforts. I really want to try one out before I take the plunge though.
    Last edited by WhitewaterDuck; 07-13-2021 at 07:08 PM.
    There was a time between the excitement of first light/legal and the first wave of ducks we tried to coax in that I looked to the heavens and talked to Tripp; I donít think God lets conversations from earth taint the wonder that His children are experiencing in Heaven, but just in case, I had my say.

  7. #47
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    Twisted up a string for the Jeffery Classic Hunter, and dammit Owen and Tom had that bow design dialed in sweet a long time ago. Its a 54# bundle of sweet shooting goodness, and it's weird how shooting it brought back vivid old memories of bending at the waist and burying a yellow and white fletched xx75 to the fletchings on a quartering away cowhorn at 15 yards. I've thought about that deer and others I shot with that bow many times, but for some reason, that one came back to me much more vividly than before and more vividly than any of the others. Regardless, its was cool to get it bending again, and if I somehow screw up this current build, I will happily tote that bow as a primary.

    I stopped by the local drug store where the Pharmacist's husband sells some fishing and hunting gear in limited amounts and has all the paper maps of Wyoming for sale. When he saw the maps I picked out, he looked up and asked "did you draw a type 1 up there?" Yup! He then sent me back to get an adjoining map and opened them up. He told me to open my OnX, took my phone, and proceeded to draw on the paper map exactly where to drive to and park, where to take a 4 wheeler 1.5 miles in and park it, and where to hike the next 1.5 miles to my camp spot along a creek. The hike is not terrible, the campsite is by water and fairly level, and the area looks incredible. He then dropped pins of those areas on my OnX, and pulled out his phone to show me vids of his hunt in there last year. He said he never saw or heard another hunter and was surrounded by elk and bugiling bulls the entire time he was there that were readily comng to soft cow calling. He didn't kill with his bow, because he passed up 15 yard broadside shots at what I thought looked a lot like freaking bullwinkle. He had vids of a 6x6 trotting in, looking at him, and turning and giving him plenty of seriously good broadside and quartering away shots..."Just wasn't quite what I was looking for" he says. Anyhoo, the guy and his wife have become pretty good friends since noticing my Grateful Dead t-shirt one day and revealing they were Deadheads too. He said all it would cost me is for me to buy their tickets when we all go see Dead and Co. the next time they are near us. Saw-wheat! So the biggest question mark and most intimidating aspect of this has, at least for now, been erased from the equation. I'm still going to try to come up with Plans B,C, and D in case things aren't the same in there this year, but I'm planning on hiking in there with some sandbags sometime next week to check it out. I'll take some pics and keep y'all updated in my efforts to bring y'all along for the journey...thinking that might not make it so damn lonely up there.
    There was a time between the excitement of first light/legal and the first wave of ducks we tried to coax in that I looked to the heavens and talked to Tripp; I donít think God lets conversations from earth taint the wonder that His children are experiencing in Heaven, but just in case, I had my say.

  8. #48
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    I just saw this - wow, what an adventure and project.

    I can't offer a whole lot of advice but have some thoughts on the little things... 1) medical tape that can stick directly to your skin, 2) sock liners, 3) heavy weight merino wool socks, 4) Ex-officio underwear, and individually packaged alcohol prep wipes like diabetics use. Carry a spare pair of any kind of thick socks and only use them at night. The working pair can be washed and will dry quickly - just air them out overnight. A few prep wipes are good for cleaning up a little and can be used to help start a fire after they're used. REI usually has some Ex-officio underwear on sale so you can usually get a pair for around $20...they're worth it - anti-bacterial and dry very quickly. Do not let a blister start...stop the moment you think you may be getting a blister, clean the area with the prep wipes and stick a layer of medical tape directly over the spot...do not let a blister even start...it'll make the rest of your trip miserable.
    Ephesians 2 : 8-9



    Charles Barkley: Nobody doesn't like meat.

  9. #49
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    Good info. Thanks.
    There was a time between the excitement of first light/legal and the first wave of ducks we tried to coax in that I looked to the heavens and talked to Tripp; I donít think God lets conversations from earth taint the wonder that His children are experiencing in Heaven, but just in case, I had my say.

  10. #50
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    Sounds epic! Do you have any contacts with horses or pack mules that could help you drop camp?

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by murraywader View Post
    Sounds epic! Do you have any contacts with horses or pack mules that could help you drop camp?
    I could probably figure ask around and pay someone for the service, but I want to try to do this on my own this first trip. I know it sounds backwards, but I want to start out doing this the way I want to most often go after elk from this point forward...which is as independent of relying on someone else as possible. I'll be limited for sure, but I'll figure out pretty quickly what my limitations are, what I can do on my own to minimize those limitations, and at what point horses, mules, or llamas would be considered a must.

    If this ends up being the "hunting heroin" that I think its going to be, I may look into getting a couple of llamas and/or a mule and learning how to work them as pack animals. I'm pretty confident that it would be an easy sell to my wife and kids.
    There was a time between the excitement of first light/legal and the first wave of ducks we tried to coax in that I looked to the heavens and talked to Tripp; I donít think God lets conversations from earth taint the wonder that His children are experiencing in Heaven, but just in case, I had my say.

  12. #52
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    Finally got this bow down to 60# @ 27". Its a bit heavier than I'm used to, but I shot it about 30 times with a range of arrow types and spines, and it shoots them all pretty dang good, and the 4 rivercane arrows I have that spine 63-73 fly like darts to the naked eye. I shot two groups with the arrows that fly best, and I robin hooded one and ended up with two 15 yard groups that I could pull out with one hand...so I'm calling it good. Ill probably lose 2-3lbs with the finish sanding and after shooting it in with 200+ shots, but its holding its reflex fairly well and is shooting very shock free, quiet, and accurately. I have the snake skins out. I washed them and scraped the fat off, tacked them up to dry, and will de-scale them as much as possible before re-washing them and applying them tomorrow. Here are pics of its final tiller and the reflex it's holding onto...its not perfect, but it's the best I can do. This thing should be a screamer...I have a new chrono that I will use to test this vs my last bow and vs the Jeffery recurve and the Robertson Stykbow. They are 50, 54 and 54 at 28" so it won't be apple to apples, but it should tell whether or not I'm on the right track with my builds.
    ;
    Last edited by WhitewaterDuck; 07-23-2021 at 09:52 PM.
    There was a time between the excitement of first light/legal and the first wave of ducks we tried to coax in that I looked to the heavens and talked to Tripp; I donít think God lets conversations from earth taint the wonder that His children are experiencing in Heaven, but just in case, I had my say.

  13. #53
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    Error...that is a pic of reflex from some point before now. It's holding on to some, but not that much. Ill snap a pic and correct that in the am.
    There was a time between the excitement of first light/legal and the first wave of ducks we tried to coax in that I looked to the heavens and talked to Tripp; I donít think God lets conversations from earth taint the wonder that His children are experiencing in Heaven, but just in case, I had my say.

  14. #54
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    I'm impressed.
    Carolina Counsel

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    msr tents are very light and strong. I have a "pappa hubba" and trust it well. Looks like the only make the Mutha hubba now. You wont find a lighter tent with that much space unless you go single wall and I wouldn't.

    Klymit sleeping pads are better than any I've had and I've had a few...

    A down bag around 15 degrees would be my suggestion. Big agnes make good ones.

    Jet boil is all the rage and it works but they don't like real high altitudes or cold. I use the duel fuel whisperlight setup and it always lights. use the cans if altitude/temp don't matter and gasoline otherwise. I've had to put it in a camp fire (that I started with some of the fuel) to get it hot enough to vaporize, but it worked eventually.

    mpowered luci inflatable solar light. You will be amazed for years by this contraption.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhitewaterDuck View Post
    I know it sounds backwards, but I want to start out doing this the way I want to most often go after elk
    I knew better than to open this thread until I had some time. I wasn't disappointed. Keep doing you...

  17. #57
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    Have the snake skins on it now. Thanks Simpleman and Tha Dick...Y'all wil be an up-front part of this hunt. Tha Dick got me a 22" copperhead a couple of years ago, and Simple got me a 45" copperhead this year. I decided to take the big one and skin the limbs and overlapped the limb skins with the small one that covered the handle to the fades. It looks pretty cool as is, but I'm going to do a silk thread wrap where the big pattern transitions into the small pattern on the handle...the thread and the splices are right at the fades. This bow will be worthy; I just need to get it 20 yards from a broadside bull.
    There was a time between the excitement of first light/legal and the first wave of ducks we tried to coax in that I looked to the heavens and talked to Tripp; I donít think God lets conversations from earth taint the wonder that His children are experiencing in Heaven, but just in case, I had my say.

  18. #58
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    That’s a damn good looking bow! I’ll bet the pucker factor was high recurving those tips.
    Nothing trumps local knowledge. Your chances of success just went up exponentially..

  19. #59
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    Can’t wait to see the finished product!!
    HR CC's Leather and Lace (Lacy)

  20. #60
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    I did the thread wraps yesterday...all friggin day yesterday. I did some crushed stone inlay work today using some cool colored rock from the yard and some crushed mahogany obsidian from my knapping debitage pile. I practiced on an old broken bow from a couple of years ago and it turned out great first go. Today, with better carving tools and better CA glue, it gave me fits. Worked on that task all day today. While sanding it, I noticed a crack at the recurve that could have been a disaster...might still be. I had some mass in width to lose there with no problems, so I sanded it aggressively and think I eliminated the issue. I matched the other tip with the same aggressive thinning with sanding. Just put on the first coat of truoil and all I can say is that if this bow fails on me after what I've put into it...I'm going to have to go to therapy. The first coat of truoil just lit the copperhead skins up and they are on FIRE. Very cool contrast in color between the skin on the limbs and the skin on the handle section. It absolutely sends arrows with authority. I'm thinking that one of the arrows I shot was way underspined and way too light and that caused the damage to the recurve. I'm going to finish the bow before shooing anymore, and I'm going to up the strand count in my string from 14 to 16 and add in some softer, kinder-to-the-limbs B50 strands into the string loops AND only shoot minimum 600 grain arrows through it. I'll post some pics after I get a few coats on it. It is beautiful and it deserves to skewer an elk. I need to pray for that limb to be copasetic.
    Last edited by WhitewaterDuck; 07-28-2021 at 11:08 PM.
    There was a time between the excitement of first light/legal and the first wave of ducks we tried to coax in that I looked to the heavens and talked to Tripp; I donít think God lets conversations from earth taint the wonder that His children are experiencing in Heaven, but just in case, I had my say.

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