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Thread: Time to talk about ducks

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by willyworm View Post
    Judging by the pics of your hunts, I'd take your awful season any day.

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    Far from rainbows and unicorns. I had to get up at 0615 for that hunt. Brutal.
    Quote Originally Posted by trentsmith View Post
    Honestly I don't remember why I don't like you but I do remember that I don't like you.

  2. #302
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    Yeah, sounds brutal. Congrats on the retirement, by the way.

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    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Delta in a nutshell: Breeding grounds + small wetlands + big blocks of grass cover + predator removal + nesting structures + enough money to do the job= plenty of ducks to keep everyone smiling!

    "For those that will fight for it...FREEDOM...has a flavor the protected shall never know."
    -L/Cpl Edwin L. "Tim" Craft

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sportin' Woodies View Post
    Global warming is real. Over regulating fossil fuels and throwing money at nonsense ain't gonna make it cool off.
    This is probably correct. Don’t think raising taxes on a gallon of fuel will help.

    I mentioned earlier some folks we sponsor in South Dakota. He sent me photos yesterday of him Long range shooting in a t-shirt on January 22nd with 0 snow cover and it was mid 50’s. Not natural for South Dakota in what is the second coldest month.
    I flew to Colorado yesterday afternoon. Driving up I-70 at 10pm at 9,000 feet it was only 28 degrees with almost 0 snow cover.
    Again that is downright warm at night at that elevation.
    Just my observations.


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  4. #304
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    There's not enough moisture for snow up north in the air . It's all on the ground in Florence County.

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  5. #305
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    Had a couple of long talks with Dr Phil Lavretsky today. Guy really knows his business as to PRM, the politics, economy, atmosphere and most especially the science.


    I asked him "what in the world" as to his comment that there were no mallards on the Atlantic Flyway pre 1920. His response was pretty humorous "DAGGGUM- I knew I needed to elaborate on that" - in essence he told me directly :

    That the large majority of (but not all )mallards on the Atlantic Flyway pre 1920 were North American Wild Mallards that crossed over from the Mississippi flyway and that there were a fair amount of them but with very few actually wild breeding in the actual Atlantic flyway proper.

    That led me to ask him about our great mallard populations in the golden years -late 90s. I asked what they were as well. His answer was that the large migrating masses were also North American Wild Mallards crossovers from the Mississippi flyway with an increasing amount of PRM mallards mixed in as to time factor extended with the PRM program.

    A couple of take aways from our convo:

    The majority of PRMs since recorded history can all be tracked back to one place in Europe.

    The clique of wild mallards that came here from the Missisissippi flyway were likely a select group of imprinted birds and that the PRM blending "MAY" (but likely is )the reason they are declining in population and may soon no longer exist.

    The PRM European genes are now being found across all flyways. NOT GOOD.

    Coloration represents a very small portion of the entire genetic composition of waterfowl thus why a Mottled can be more related to a wild mallard than a PRM to a wild Mallard.

    He is currently working on a data set of over 30,000 mallards from all over our country and the world.

    PRMs are the cancer of wild birds - he didn't say that last one there, I did.

    I suspect he will be running up against some political monsters in the near future and will need funding to keep his research ongoing. I will be working on that soon with another group and will advise.
    Last edited by Strick9; 01-25-2021 at 06:22 PM.
    Genesis 9;2

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strick9 View Post
    Had a couple of long talks with Dr Phil Lavretsky today. Guy really knows his business as to PRM, the politics, economy, atmosphere and most especially the science.


    I asked him "what in the world" as to his comment that there were no mallards on the Atlantic Flyway pre 1920. His response was pretty humorous "DAGGGUM- I knew I needed to elaborate on that" - in essence he told me directly :

    That the large majority of (but not all )mallards on the Atlantic Flyway pre 1920 were North American Wild Mallards that crossed over from the Mississippi flyway and that there were a fair amount of them but with very few actually wild breeding in the actual Atlantic flyway proper.

    That led me to ask him about our great mallard populations in the golden years -late 90s. I asked what they were as well. His answer was that the large migrating masses were also North American Wild Mallards crossovers from the Mississippi flyway with an increasing amount of PRM mallards mixed in as to time factor extended with the PRM program.

    A couple of take aways from our convo:

    The majority of PRMs since recorded history can all be tracked back to one place in Europe.

    The clique of wild mallards that came here from the Missisissippi flyway were likely a select group of imprinted birds and that the PRM blending "MAY" (but likely is )the reason they are declining in population and may soon no longer exist.

    The PRM European genes are now being found across all flyways. NOT GOOD.

    Coloration represents a very small portion of the entire genetic composition of waterfowl thus why a Mottled can be more related to a wild mallard than a PRM to a wild Mallard.

    He is currently working on a data set of over 30,000 mallards from all over our country and the world.

    PRMs are the cancer of wild birds - he didn't say that last one there, I did.

    I suspect he will be running up against some political monsters in the near future and will need funding to keep his research ongoing. I will be working on that soon with another group and will advise.
    I have a few questions so please forgive my ignorance...

    1. Is PRM a pen raised mallard that has been released to the wild?

    2. How long ago and what is the science of releasing and detriment to these PRMs being in DNA in other flyways?

    3. Is the overall mallard population on the decline.

    Honestly I don’t give a damn about the east coast mallard situation. BUT if what you all are dealing now is what the west coast is going to be dealing with in 20 years I’ll pay attention.

    I see breeding as a huge contributing factor. Weather is also always at play. If ducks don’t have to fly farther than they have to why would they?

    I keep very detailed notes and can express this sentiment...If it’s cold lots of mallard die. I will also say that ducks hate boats riding through them and getting shot at. I saw an area that would hold close to 700k annually go to maybe 5K just because of pressure. I know they still exist but that imprinting has been erased and they will never come back.


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  7. #307
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    1. Yes

    2. PRM , who really knows, early as late 1800s , predominately started in density around 1917-1925ish. Domestic birds, domestic genes x wild birds, wild genes = birds not selected by natural selection= weak.

    3. In the Atlantic Flyway complex yes, its pretty much dead thus the limit restrictions that may push to 1 per hunter next year. Not sure , no time to research other flyway numbers, rarely do aerial flights count species.

    You should as it is like injecting a cancer into a healthy body. Domestic stock genetics are being found in all flyways now.

    Correct.

    Correct.
    Genesis 9;2

  8. #308
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    Fascinating. We need to make this a separate topic/thread.

  9. #309
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    More and more specific stuff coming down the pipe soon. If you guys want specific questions asked feel free to send me a pm with those questions.
    Genesis 9;2

  10. #310
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    Strick, thank you, again, for making the effort. The crazy narrative that was running around was stopping the actual point from coming close to being made...

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by JABIII View Post
    Strick, thank you, again, for making the effort. The crazy narrative that was running around was stopping the actual point from coming close to being made...
    Of course Jab, thank you as well.

    That 1920 statement didn't sit quite right with me either, for the reasons you mentioned. After having seen the solid turkey research get smashed around over not listing the variables, which bothered me greatly, sometimes the air has to be cleared.

    Phil and his research will be attacked, of that I am certain. He is aware of the deep roots the PRM has grown. He will need our support and I plan on giving as much effort / support as required to keep him and his research from being down played / eradicated. I just hope it is not to late for the AF wild Mallard.
    Last edited by Strick9; 01-26-2021 at 06:48 PM.
    Genesis 9;2

  12. #312
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    So, I've heard tale of Atlantic Flyway old timers (some not so old timers) calling a mallard a European duck.
    Very interesting, anyone else heard this terminology used?
    \"I never saw a wild thing feel sorry for itself. A small bird will drop dead frozen from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.\" <br />D.H. LAWRENCE

  13. #313
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    Heard them called English ducks my whole life.

  14. #314
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    Robert Raurk referred to them as gaudy French ducks
    cut\'em

  15. #315
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    Does anyone know how the 2-bird mallard limit impacted the PRM business on the East Coast?
    Are they following the rules.. or have they found a loop hole?

  16. #316
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    If they are a preserve, they can kill whatever they want with regards to the mallards!
    Always been that way....
    \"I never saw a wild thing feel sorry for itself. A small bird will drop dead frozen from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.\" <br />D.H. LAWRENCE

  17. #317
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    I maintain that you can kill as many of your own livestock as you want. At least one SC judge has ruled that she agrees. The only reason that most of the release places pretend to stick to a limit is because they don't want to give up the illusion of it being a fair chase hunt or their live decoys which are oh so effective at bringing in the wild birds...

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungBuckTX View Post
    Does anyone know how the 2-bird mallard limit impacted the PRM business on the East Coast?
    Are they following the rules.. or have they found a loop hole?
    From what I’ve seen/heard, it doesn’t really have an effect at all.

    Most of the Clarendon ponds are ringneck and teal driven.
    Tamies are killed every day but they are more to fill a lull.

    They could certainly be done away with and have little impact on Club kill counts.
    Be proactive about improving public waterfowl habitat in South Carolina. It's not going to happen by itself, and our help is needed. We have the potential to winter thousands of waterfowl on public grounds if we fight for it.

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by JABIII View Post
    The only reason that most of the release places pretend to stick to a limit is because they don't want to give up the illusion of it being a fair chase hunt or their live decoys which are oh so effective at bringing in the wild birds...

    And this is also the reason they turn down the Hunting Preserve status. The owners and their guests want to feel like they are duck hunters. The live decoys helps with the wild birds.

  20. #320
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    so.. it sounds like most are not operating/advertising under the preserve status.. but are still killing as many tamies as they want, in addition to wild birds.

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