View Poll Results: What to do with Cat 1 WMA's for waterfowl

Voters
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  • Stop wasting the money and turn into Cat 2

    17 17.17%
  • Fund whatever it takes to repair and manage.

    25 25.25%
  • Fund it but roll some heads at DNR

    55 55.56%
  • Give up on Samworth and Delta

    2 2.02%
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Thread: Cat 1 WMA funding

  1. #41
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    Feb 2005
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    Did we ever get a good answer why dnr felt doing waterfowl counts was no longer a useful tool?

    Samworth cant catch a break, several hundred acres of sod farm very close to it is now duck impoundments.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  2. #42
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    I don't talk about work much but I am very much a student of "strategy"...

    One of the big things missing from this and all discussions about WMA is a clearly stated and measurable management goal. Many over look it but some purposefully ignore it. If you don't have a goal and aren't measured against a goal then you can't be held accountable.

    If there's any informal goal that many of the Cat I mangers discuss it's "ducks/gun". That's not a terrible statistic to work with but, like Viki in I, Robot, it leads to only one conclusion...let's have one hunter per year and make sure that that hunter has the perfect hunt. Close down Cat I's that might only produce 3 ducks/gun.

    Done properly, the Cat I strategies and goals shouldn't be stand-alone but part of a strategy for the entire DNR. I would suggest a economic value for every live duck that is overwintered in SC and an economic value for every dead duck produced on WMA. The same for fish, birds, miles of trail, etc. The sum of all the value produce by the DNR could be measured and compared against an independently produced Economic Development Value of the DNR.

    All state agencies should be run like this and required to measure and report often.
    Ephesians 2 : 8-9



    Charles Barkley: Nobody doesn't like meat.

  3. #43
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    The answer lies somewhere between your "Perfect world" paradigm and Strick9's "The Man is out to get me" syndrome. Human nature will usually win outside of a Dictatorship...

  4. #44
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    Emily Cope has gotta go. Who at the state house has the balls to make it happen....
    Last edited by BRR; 11-21-2020 at 07:30 PM.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRR View Post
    Emily Cope has gotta go.
    Tell us more.

  6. #46
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    Mar 2002
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    Florence
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    The Governor appoints the board. The Board chooses the director. The director employs staff.


    Of course state employees...
    Last edited by Duck Tape; 11-22-2020 at 06:07 PM.
    Either write things worth reading, or do things worth writing.

  7. #47
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    Nov 2004
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    43,508

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    Iíve been on 3 Cat 1 hunts with one other person and an Adult/Youth draw. 8 hunts and 48 ducks killed.

  8. #48
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    Dec 2005
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    The entire system has an “it what it is” outlook on public duck hunting across the spectrum of officials in charge.

    A complacent mind set by those in charge of waterfowl issues, and the majority of those men hunt private land in SC.

    Not one damn thing of any substance has been done.

    Dike maintenance is not improvement. It’s maintenance.

    Not one single, solitary thing has been done for category 2 “waterfowl areas.”

    Time and again for decades we have discussed meaningful changes to SC’s public waterfowl hunting and I’d love somebody to point me toward one that came to fruition.

    Fencing the breaches in the hatchery to keep carp out? Nope.

    Fixing the water control structures on Santee Cooper WMA? Nope.

    Establishing SAV in PCH? Nope, I had to call Duck Tape and Alvin Taylor to get carp stocking halted, because our very own APMC’s Chris Page thought they needed 1500 carp in there.

    Allowing teal hunting in Cat 1’s during September, because every year upwards of 20k birds utilize them, and it would be a great thing for public hunters? Nope....alligators are much more dangerous in Murphy Island than the 12ft alligators in the Santee Cooper lakes.

    Putting a Cat 1 property on an annual rotation to give SC hunters multiple chances annually to hunt these properties....nope. It could mess up somebody’s 4 year chance at a pintail.

    Establishing SAV on Parr Reservoir? Nope....not a thought.

    Selling one of the hundreds of BS “heritage preserve” properties to purchase lands and build more green tree reservoirs, knowing their success, and how it would spread hunters out? Nope, not a thought.

    State owned impoundments in Clarendon County on a weekly draw? Nope.


    States around us have public ducks, because states around us take initiative.

    But not good ole SC.
    Be proactive about improving public waterfowl habitat in South Carolina. It's not going to happen by itself, and our help is needed. We have the potential to winter thousands of waterfowl on public grounds if we fight for it.

  9. #49
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    Dec 2015
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    Thanks for your support, Lindsay.
    I'll just leave this here.

    Quote Originally Posted by BOGSTER View Post
    5 man limit in the corn.

    Not many big ducks seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duck Tape View Post
    Clemson gained 744 yards Saturday night, the most ever against South Carolina.
    Quote Originally Posted by JABIII View Post
    All they do is win...

  10. #50
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    The hell does that have to do with the topic at hand?
    Be proactive about improving public waterfowl habitat in South Carolina. It's not going to happen by itself, and our help is needed. We have the potential to winter thousands of waterfowl on public grounds if we fight for it.

  11. #51
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    Dec 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOGSTER View Post
    I’d love to know the answers.
    ...obviously have some inclination...

    Quote Originally Posted by Duck Tape View Post
    Clemson gained 744 yards Saturday night, the most ever against South Carolina.
    Quote Originally Posted by JABIII View Post
    All they do is win...

  12. #52
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    Oct 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by JABIII View Post
    The answer lies somewhere between your "Perfect world" paradigm and Strick9's "The Man is out to get me" syndrome. Human nature will usually win outside of a Dictatorship...
    I laft, I get fairly defensive about the subject but honestly I have certainly put a target on my head or so I am told by a few employees. That said I can't think of a single man or anything else that is out to get me nor do I ever cross a line to be gotten. Admittedly the only syndrome in my head at the moment centers around an especially large bully 6 that recently broke off a 20" inside 8, but a man naw mehhh braaap. What I can tell you is that the total composition of CAT 1s consumed @ 29 million last year. That's trivial to the other battle on the USFS side of things where I keep stepping on a 3 billion dollar amount, I did receive a sincere warning about that one so that's likely my mafia ruffling, far more so than SCDNR. The paradigm is simply a shift from hook and bullet employees to warm fuzzy wildlife employees both on ground and especially upper level.

    That shift parallels RH idea, whom by the way is correct, the goals of SCDNR have disappeared from their script. In the past each CAT 1 was under a goals and objectives plan. That was done away with entirely, the waterfowl commission also done away with, the wintering waterfowl count also mia. If you don't measure, you can't fail or be judged for that matter.

    Bog ain't wrong either.

    I have heard that the CAT 1 closures ( some yet again this year) from the upstate to the coast have created verbal marching orders with an implication that if things aren't shiny by 2021 "some heads will roll". I suspect that the closures aren't a down slope to sell off or turning into CAT 2s etc but I could be wrong. I have seen some progress in some places but lawt heb merci if it ain't' been a grind.

    I'll keep pushing until the daisies wilt I reckon.
    Last edited by Strick9; 11-21-2020 at 10:18 PM.
    Genesis 9;2

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by JABIII View Post
    Tell us more.
    She runs the dog and pony show. She tells the employees what they can and can't think and or say. From the top to the bottom, the empress keeps free thought and speech squashed....

  14. #54
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    Oct 2012
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    And runs off or scratches farmer Johny's dirty fingernailed son in favor of teddy silver spoons or worse. Likely the biggest problem with our CAT 1s in addition to her courtship with DU.
    Genesis 9;2

  15. #55
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    I get what y'all are saying, I think. I certainly haven't paid a lot of attention to the goings on and inner workings since the Frampton days.

    When the Board was made up of even those "silver spoon" plantation owning types, things still ran pretty well as far as hunters were concerned because the liberals largely ignored DNR. They were happy to get a page or two about kayaks on the website, some pretty pictures of herons in the magazine, and some more taxpayer funded "free land" to hike on.

    We saw what was to come many years ago when Missouri passed that 1/10th of 1% sales tax to fund their DNR. They were FLUSH with cash. Their refuges were damn near paved with gold roads, huge new impoundments were built and flooded that changed the whole damned migration. It was great for them. Soon they didn't need anymore new anything and couldn't spend the money faster than it piled up.

    Then someone noticed. What the hell is DNR doing with this kind of bank? The liberal politicians went after it like piranhas. They took over the board, waterfowl management turned into bike trails and greenways, the rest is history.

    We said on SCDUCKS 10 years ago that it would happen sooner or later even as poorly funded as our DNR is. So we inched closer and closer hiring less and less competent outdoorspeople in favor of classroom educated liberals.

    The danger isn't in that they don't know what they are doing, it is in their agendas and goals being diametrically opposed to what hunters and fishermen want.

    "Everyone wants clean water", well yes. We certainly do. That's why we have been trying to take care of it all of our lives while the government was selling us down the river bringing in toxic waste from the northeast states to bury on the shores of Lake Marion, allowing every creek swamp even near a city or town to be paved over for development, while dumping hundreds of thousands of native plant destroying invasive carp into our waterways.

    The government ain't here to save us and a liberal progressive government agency sure isn't the answer. Spending millions on welfare for wealthy landowners to get out of properties that the can't sell or afford to manage while failing to maintain them in favor of bike trails down old railroads makes zero sense to the guy who wants to hunt ducks but all the sense in the world to his wife.

    We will see the day that hunters are kicked off of state lands that they largely funded through the Pittman Roberson Act (that they voluntarily asked for) because "safety issues" in favor of bikers, hikers, kayakers, birders, who are all just useful idiots to the agenda of getting rid of support for hunting and then the real goal of less support for firearms. Inch by inch. By any means necessary.

    I don't know this Cope person or anything more than I have read here. I hate to hear hunters don't like the Director of our DNR. I am not surprised by it either. One thing Sportsmen need to get better at, and I have seen Strick9 mention it, is the constant in fighting and focus on every little issue. Winning the skirmish while losing the battle will be the end. As Bog notes, how often have Sportsmen truly even won a skirmish in the last 20 years?

    What a mess...

  16. #56
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    Mar 2013
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    586

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    We are pretty much adjacent to two CAT 1 locales. We rely on moist soil, as do the two WMAs. Our trunks are set to drain, and have been since February. This year we have not been able to do any mowing, or burning. Our fields have mid thigh to waist deep water in them. So do the WMAs. Absolutely nothing either of us can do.
    Bog- you are right about Bear Island. The reason you see, is the ability to grow SAV vegetation. Where is the dam upstream?
    Last edited by formerly bohica; 11-22-2020 at 01:46 PM.

  17. #57
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    BTW- Cape unit had a 4.85 average yesterday.

  18. #58
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    Frampton is how she got there......

  19. #59
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    Dec 2005
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    T, no doubt they are worlds apart.
    Hence why I mentioned it.

    I don’t pretend to know the answer, I’m just capable of seeing that we aren’t getting what we are paying for across the State in terms of public waterfowl.
    Be proactive about improving public waterfowl habitat in South Carolina. It's not going to happen by itself, and our help is needed. We have the potential to winter thousands of waterfowl on public grounds if we fight for it.

  20. #60
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    Oct 2015
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    Florence, SC
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOGSTER View Post
    T, no doubt they are worlds apart.
    Hence why I mentioned it.

    I don’t pretend to know the answer, I’m just capable of seeing that we aren’t getting what we are paying for across the State in terms of public waterfowl.
    I may be wrong, but it seems to me we get more than what we pay for. When you consider the cost of taxes (in proportion to what goes to DNR) licenses and fees, it ain’t a whole lot of money. I don’t think a hundred bucks a year affords me much duck hunting opportunity in SC. Not when you consider what it costs to have good waterfowl property in SC

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