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Thread: NoDak Landowners hunters clash

  1. #1
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    Default NoDak Landowners hunters clash

    One of the most contentious subjects during the recent legislative session, SB2315 sought to deal with the issue of whether landowners should have to post to prevent hunters and others from entering it, or whether hunters should be required to request permission from every landowner before entering private property

    Written By: James Miller | Sep 26th 2020 - 8pm.

    Across the prairies, farmland and badlands of North Dakota, a new crop is growing in surprising abundance. It is not spring wheat, canola, barley, soybeans or corn, but rather a crop of unique signage reading, “ND LOCK OUT” and “#IAmNDLockOut.”




    The signage which began appearing in late 2019 comes from a group that took the mantle in an old fight in North Dakota. The group, North Dakota Lock Out, says that they are focused on protecting the property rights of North Dakotans as property owners -- primarily agricultural producers -- and have been seeking changes to North Dakota's private property laws.

    The signage is only the latest effort in a struggle pitting landowners and hunters in a battle that has raged for more than a decade as North Dakota remains the only state in the region permitting hunters to enter private property, without permission, unless the land is posted for no trespassing or no hunting — putting the onus on the landowner.

    Signage began appearing in late 2019 across western North Dakota from a group that took the mantle in an old fight. The group, North Dakota Lock Out, says that they are focused on protecting the property rights of North Dakotans as property owners. (Dickinson Press file photo)

    The amendments and subsequent watering down of the verbiage in SB2315 became the impetus for a reinvigorated debate in North Dakota and is one that will certainly be felt as pheasant season approaches this fall.

    Rep. Luke Simons, R-District 36, spoke on the House floor on the topic, siding with landowners in what he said was a clear violation of property rights.

    “Our land is being violated, our rights are being violated and as landowners, we are being violated,” Simons said. “Landowners would like people to ask for permission before they come on private land. It’s not a lot to ask. No one is saying, ‘no hunting here’, most welcome hunters. I welcome hunters. We just ask that they ask to come on private land.”

    Simons said that hunters are failing to understand a simple concept, saying “It’s not your right, it’s a privilege” to hunt on private property.

    Craig Armstrong, a North Dakota landowner and avid hunter, said he understood both sides of the argument.

    “When I started hunting it was commonplace to not have posted land, so we had access to all this private land because of the laws and the way things were. It was honestly wonderful growing up that way,” Armstrong said. “In the few times that we came across land that was posted, we’d find the landowner and talk to them. It was always better to be hunting posted land with permission because not as many people were hunting there because a lot of people won’t knock on doors or make that phone call. I wouldn’t hunt on land if there was even half a sign that maybe blew away, I think it’s better to just be on the side of caution and respect.”


    Armstrong detailed how challenging it was to hunt before cellphones were invented and how the innovation makes the old ways of doing things much easier.

    “Back before cellphones I would write the name and phone number on the signs, come home and make the calls to the landowners to ask permission for the next time I would go out hunting,” Armstrong said. “When cellphones came out that was one of the things I was most excited about, being able to call right there. I’ve done that many times, I still do that all the time because I like doing that.”

    Today, Armstrong said that he understands the concerns raised by landowners.

    “It’s been great having access to all this private land that I can just hunt, it’s been wonderful. As a hunter I love our posting laws, but as an American citizen and proponent of property rights and land ownership, I don’t believe that landowners should have to post signs to keep people off the land,” he said. “Here in town if someone comes onto my property, I don’t have to post it. If people come on my land they are trespassing. Really, what is the difference?”

    Armstrong added, “I don’t blame landowners who are fighting for their rights on this. As a hunter, it’ll be a little more difficult for me and it’s a tradition being lost — which is a hard thing to lose — but in today’s age with technology it’s just not that hard. You have to do your homework and go find the landowner and get permission and everyone is more comfortable. They know who is out there and you know whose land you’re hunting.”


    Just southwest of Belfield, hidden in those rolling pastures of ranchland and protected by buttes and valleys, lies a patch of land that is, according to local property owners, under attack.

    Evidence of the coarseness that so rattles these landowners can be found all throughout the neighboring patches of land: battered and beaten land, trash and spent shells, grass patches turned to mudholes and pronounced ruts in the shape of truck tires, some up to 10 inches deep, criss-crossing the mud chaotically, all but destroying a generations-old dirt trail used for work, not play.

    The main suspects? According to the landowners, irreverent hunters.

    Beginning in early 2019, farmers and ranchers along the Western Edge became more and more vocal about the apparent increase in flippant maltreatment of the land they work. Some have said that the age of hunting without permission is dying at the hands of those who benefit the most — hunters.

    The grievances of these ranchers and farmers doesn’t appear to be with hunting or all hunters in general, but rather a blatant disregard by a few bad apples for the land on which they stand. Many of these same landowners are proud, but concerned hunters themselves.

    “More and more people are wanting landowner rights back because of bad hunters,” Armstrong said. “There are bad hunters out there and they give all of us good hunters a bad name. They have a lot of ways that they piss off landowners by not following the rules, the law, shooting too close to their house, etc.”

    Armstrong added, “It seems to me, and really is, that we’ve become more of a hunting destination state for our neighbors. Most of the bad hunters are coming from the east, places like Minnesota and Fargo. They’re from the city and don’t know the ethics and think this land is theirs to use and abuse — it’s not.”

    Armstrong said that he believes that it wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing should posting laws become a thing of the past.

    “I think that passing those laws would weed out the bad hunters because they’ll have to put some work and effort into it that they don’t want to do,” he said. “I think that my quality of hunting, I believe, will be better because not everyone is going to do their homework. Maybe then our relationship with landowners will become better. Then and probably only then.”

    For more information about the rules and regulations governing hunting on private property, visit https://gf.nd.gov/

    https://www.superiortelegram.com/nor...son-approaches

  2. #2
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    Free grazers

  3. #3
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    I can't argue it. You shouldn't have to to put a sign up to keep people off your property. But will definitely ruin the mystique of nodak

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    That hunt without asking is an anomaly of ND and at best course bullshit. If you dont take the time to ask permission you miss one of the most common tenants of hunting, gratitude. Gratitude for the ability to do it, the game, the permission to be there, and for the experience overall. Law or not it’s a sign of respect to ask permission that any decent man should take the time to secure as a priority over holding a field full of mallards. Not a sole on here would be happy about that law if it applied in SC And you walked into your favorite swamp and 5 people were in there.
    \"We say grace and we say maam, if you ain\'t into that, we don\'t give a damn.\" HW Jr.

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    Thats a strange law. Why would it have been written that way. or not written a different way?
    Quote Originally Posted by ecu1984 View Post
    Steelin' Ducks is the KRT of suppressors and such.

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    It’s no different here in SC. I’ve been managing family property for 11 years. My first year back home from college, we had a big problem with trespassers. The first time I called DNR, they were 45 minutes out and I had the trespasser stopped in the woods. Let’s just say that didn’t work. I contact my local Sheriff’s department and they say they don’t handle game laws but they prosecute trespassing laws. Cool. Next time I have a problem, I call the sheriffs office. They are there within 10 minutes. I have the trespassers blocked in and they have a talk with them. Before they write tickets, they ask me if the property is posted on all four corners. I say no, I only have the road frontage posted. I tell them I have a good relationships with the adjoining landowners and we know our lines. They tell me they can’t write the trespassing ticket unless I can prove I have the property posted all around and in t four corners. They let trespassers go with a warning. I then post the ever living shit out of the whole place. I had problems 2 more times and tickets and procesution took place. I haven’t had a problem wit trespassers in about 7 years. Moral of the story, unless your porosity is posted all the way around, a trespass ticket won’t hold up in court. Kind of like the “no concealed weapons” signs. If they aren’t on every door, you can carry.

  7. #7
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    Read the law genius. It's not the landowners responsibility to post his or her land is this state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sportin' Woodies View Post
    Read the law genius. It's not the landowners responsibility to post his or her land is this state.
    Ask law enforcement. I don’t care what the law says. I’m telling you they don’t prosecute unless you have your land posted....all four corners.

  9. #9
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    What he said. I don’t have to post shit. If you are on my land without my permission you are trespassing by law.
    "George Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to defeat the British, he shot them."

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    Quote Originally Posted by joshua2 View Post
    What he said. I don’t have to post shit. If you are on my land without my permission you are trespassing by law.
    All I’m saying is good luck with prosecuting them. I don’t know how many people have caught trespassers and been there with law enforcement. I HAVE. I’m just telling you my real life experience with it. Law enforcement would NOT write a ticket until I posted my property, SPECIFICALLY all four corners.

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    I know it’s plenty of fuzz on here...chime in...what say you?

  12. #12
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    You can go to any Magistrate's office and swear out a warrant for trespassing against anyone you see trespassing.

    1. You don't need a law enforcement officer
    2. Law enforcement does not EVER prosecute anyone for anything
    3. In South Carolina, land does NOT have to be "posted" on 4 corners, 2 corners, 1 corners, or up your ass for you to have a trespasser prosecuted

  13. #13
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    Have yall not learned that the resident idiot knows everything? Whats that saying my granddad use to always say?

    "It is better to keep*your mouth*closed and let people think you are*a*fool than*to open*it and remove all doubt."

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
    “… duckhunting stands alone as an outdoor discipline. It has a tang and spirit shared by no other sport—a philosophy compounded of sleet, the winnow of unseen wings, and the reeks of marsh mud and wet wool. No other sport has so many theories, legends, casehardened disciples and treasured memories.”
    --John Madson, The Mallard, 1960

    "Never trust a duck hunter who cares more about his success than his dog's."

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    Quote Originally Posted by JABIII View Post
    You can go to any Magistrate's office and swear out a warrant for trespassing against anyone you see trespassing.

    1. You don't need a law enforcement officer
    2. Law enforcement does not EVER prosecute anyone for anything
    3. In South Carolina, land does NOT have to be "posted" on 4 corners, 2 corners, 1 corners, or up your ass for you to have a trespasser prosecuted
    Not quite.
    1. The most you can do as a citizen is a courtesy summons. In my county, the judge will ask if you have been through an investigator. Then they want to know if there was probable cause or not. It’s a mess.
    2. Law enforcement does prosecute on misdemeanor charges. We have to act as attorneys all the way up to jury trials. I don’t really like it and some large agencies have a designated prosecutor to help officers in trial.
    3. I’ve handled many trespassing cases and I couldn’t care less if your property is posted. You either do or don’t have a right to be there.

    SECTION 16-11-610. Entry on another's lands for various purposes without permission.

    Any person entering upon the lands of another for the purpose of hunting, fishing, trapping, netting; for gathering fruit, wild flowers, cultivated flowers, shrubbery, straw, turf, vegetables or herbs; or for cutting timber on such land, without the consent of the owner or manager, shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction shall, for a first offense, be fined not more than two hundred dollars or imprisoned for not more than thirty days, for a second offense, be fined not less than one hundred dollars nor more than two hundred dollars or imprisoned for not more than thirty days and, for a third or subsequent offense, be fined not less than five hundred dollars nor more than one thousand dollars or imprisoned for not more than six months or both. A first or second offense prosecution resulting in a conviction shall be reported by the magistrate or city recorder hearing the case to the communications and records division of the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division which shall keep a record of such conviction so that any law enforcement agency may inquire into whether or not a defendant has a prior record. Only those offenses which occurred within a period of ten years, including and immediately preceding the date of the last offense, shall constitute prior offenses within the meaning of this section.


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    When I've called the law on trespassers. The best I could get from a county deputy sheriff was something similar to a warning notice for the trespasser. Once the trespasser signed that, he could be immediately charged and jailed the next time he was caught trespassing on my land, even though I had previously caught this guy three times and warned him to stay off my land. The sheriff said I could hire an attorney and go swear out a warrant but he said it would likely be dismissed by a magistrate if it was the first documented occurrence of trespassing on my property by the individual.

    I've been told there are laws for trespassing and then another law for "trespassing after notice". Posting prominent signs on the border could be cited as adequate notice.

    I've read the laws but I think the actual application of the trespassing laws are somewhere between Rabbitman's description and the letter of the law. Hell, judges let crooks off for much, much more serious crimes even with a shit ton of evidence. Do you really think you can get a trespassing conviction without expending a boat load of lawyer money?

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    I HAVE had people ticketed and prosecuted for trespassing on a property that doesn't have the first POSTED sign on it anywhere.

    If law enforcement won't uphold the LAW, send their asses to their own jails.
    I don't need my name in the marquee lights....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palmetto Bug View Post
    Do you really think you can get a trespassing conviction without expending a boat load of lawyer money?
    I have. I will admit that although the law has not changed the way the law is being (or not being) applied undeniably has changed across the board. Certainty of an outcome used to be like the sunrise...

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    It’s not equally enforced. It’s all up to the local magistrate whether they enforce it or not, who is making the complaint and who is doing the trespassing.

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    It certainly helps to know your magistrates and "shop" them. For instance, try getting an Eastover magistrate to write out a warrant for trespassing to fish. Not happening. So, you go to Columbia and find one who will. You can weaponize the law if you make the effort. One of my favorite memories is of RCSD officers waiting for midnight New Years eve to go arrest a guy I caught trespassing to hunt ducks a week before. He sat in jail for days waiting to get bonded out while all of his friends were calling me crying...


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    Note to self, don’t trespass on Jab’s duck hole.....

    He B roofless

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