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Thread: Observations from Watching Old Games

  1. #1
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    Default Observations from Watching Old Games

    I've been watching a lot of older CFB games over the past couple of months, and it is pretty staggering how much stronger the SEC is over most of the country. Average to above average SEC teams seem to just dominate the average to above average teams from other conferences. The depth of the SEC is just so superior to the rest of the conferences. The outliers are Clemson and Ohio State.

    I found this list pretty interesting when you consider that all 4 of Dabo's losses are to Orgeron and Saban, 3 of Saban's are to Orgeron and Swinney, and 2 of Orgeron's are to Saban. OSU isn't really represented because Meyer isn't active, but they are the one other program that can hang with Bama and Clemson. Orgeron/LSU caught lightning in a bottle last year with Burrow, but most of his wins came at the USC against some teams that didn't end up being what they were ranked at the time. All of the last 5 National Titles belong to those top 3 coaches.

    The air is thin at the top, boys.

    Last 15 games vs Top 10 opponents:

    12-3: Orgeron
    11-4: Saban, Swinney
    9-6: Shaw
    7-8: Mullen
    6-9: Ferentz
    5-10: Gundy, Leach, Miles, Patterson, Whittingham
    4-11: Mack Brown, Malzahn
    3-12: Fisher, Kelly
    2-13: Fitzgerald, Franklin, Harbaugh
    Them that don't know him won't like him, and them that do sometimes won't know how to take him

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    Yea, I think a lot of it is due to the fact that football is king in the south. It is truly a part of our culture and so, the south puts out A LOT of good football players. While you will occasionally have some of them go outside of the south to play, the vast majority stay within the south, even within their own states. I think it would be interesting to see a breakdown of the hometowns of four and five star recruits over the last 5-10 years to see what percentage are from the southeast.
    Formerly DM88

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    It'd be interesting to see how many of those top-ten matchups were during the regular season and/or versus conference opponents. And FYI, I'm NOT ACC-bashing, but the regular season absolutely matters.
    Last edited by Black Bart; 08-03-2020 at 09:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dubs View Post
    Yea, I think a lot of it is due to the fact that football is king in the south. It is truly a part of our culture and so, the south puts out A LOT of good football players. While you will occasionally have some of them go outside of the south to play, the vast majority stay within the south, even within their own states. I think it would be interesting to see a breakdown of the hometowns of four and five star recruits over the last 5-10 years to see what percentage are from the southeast.
    Look up and watch the ESPN special, “Football town”. They did a segment on Rock Hill and the surrounding area to figure out why so many are going pro. Pretty cool segment, especially with knowing most of the guys


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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Bart View Post
    It'd be interesting to see how many of those top-ten matchups were during the regular season and/or versus conference opponents. And FYI, I'm NOT ACC-bashing, but the regular season absolutely matters.
    A top 10 team is a top 10 team. There would be no doubt that there are more regular season top 10 matchups in the SEC regular season, but top 10 is still top 10. The ACC lacks the week to week depth of an SEC schedule, and that is inarguable. However, Clemson and OSU are really the only ones to go toe to toe with the SEC and hold their own. The only real competitive playoff game, Where someone else has put up a fight is Oklahoma versus UGA. Oklahoma would've won that game had they not squib kicked before halftime. Squints kicked a bomb field goal, UGA got a shred of momentum, and it was all she wrote.
    Them that don't know him won't like him, and them that do sometimes won't know how to take him

    He ain't wrong, he's just different, and his pride won't let him do things to make you think he's right

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    Quote Originally Posted by trkykilr View Post
    A top 10 team is a top 10 team. There would be no doubt that there are more regular season top 10 matchups in the SEC regular season, but top 10 is still top 10. The ACC lacks the week to week depth of an SEC schedule, and that is inarguable. However, Clemson and OSU are really the only ones to go toe to toe with the SEC and hold their own. The only real competitive playoff game, Where someone else has put up a fight is Oklahoma versus UGA. Oklahoma would've won that game had they not squib kicked before halftime. Squints kicked a bomb field goal, UGA got a shred of momentum, and it was all she wrote.
    Serious question and I want a straight forward response. In you're opinion would Clemson and OSU be able to stand up to Alabama and LSU at the end of the year if they had to go through the SEC which you just stated was inarguable when it comes to week to week depth? I'm not arguing that Clemson has top level players. But if they had to play those games and get beat up, what would Clemson look like at the end of the season? The ACC is mediocre at best and your end of the year rival is being kept alive by life support by the last game usually. Its easy to say Clemson stood up to Bama when Bama is beat up and Clemson was fresh from resting players the second half of most games. I just want your opinion Boozer.

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    It is hard to be straight forward with a man that can't tell your from you're, but I'll type anyway.

    The answer is yes, but its an opinion. It is an opinion with some evidence to support it, however. Two seasons ago, Alabama ran through the SEC with ease, and everyone thought they were the best team ever to step onto a college football field. I don't feel like going back and looking at exact numbers, but I will be able to get pretty close. There was a week in the middle of that season where Alabama played Mississippi State and Clemson played "fill in the blank" ACC opponent. Both Clemson and Alabam won their respective games by more than 40 points, and both games were in hand well before halftime. That would seem like the perfect opportunity to build depth, and Clemson did. Clemson played over 80 players in the first half of the game, and Alabama played LESS THAN 45 in the entire game. They wasted their opportunity, as they did countless times that season.

    You want to know what Clemson coaches saw when they watched film in prep for the beatdown they laid on Bama in San Fransisco? On the call where Jeff Scott called Coach Swinney from a film session to tell him that Clemson could score 50 on Alabama, he said that Bama's starting corners played over 90% of the snaps. Clemson ran those two poor boys to death, and by the time the game turned to the 4th quarter, Clemson could've scored as many times as they wanted to.

    It is impossible to predict one player getting hurt, whether you are playing Syracuse or LSU. Certainly less relevant snaps would help, but if that is going to be your crutch, get them out when you can to develop depth. You can leave Tua in to try and win a Heisman, but don't bitch when he breaks his hip up by 28. The SEC is better, but that doesn't mak any of their individual teams better than Clemson. That has been proven.

    Remember all of those records Jake Bentley set in Death Valley? Go back and look at the DB's in the game. There were starters mixed in, as Dabo always does. There's also true freshman walk on safety Nolan Turner in the first quarter. It is Clemson's philosophy to develop depth whenever they get the slightest opportunity, and that means mixing in second and third teamers when the game is still in doubt. It sucks when they get beat, but they learn. You probably saw Nolan Turner pick off that pass to end the Ohio State game in the semifinals last year.

    Additionally, don't give that "rival on life support BS". Go recruit better players, but until you do, take your ass cutting like a man. I listen to SEC this and SEC that on 107.5 all damn year long. South Carolina is the flagship school of this state, in a metropolitan area, and continues to step on its pecker when it comes to football. South Carolina football has a lot of advantages to sell to an 18 year old black man that Clemson simply doesn't have, but they don't have football tradition. Whose fault is that? You can't "SEC SEC SEC!" and then "but but but SEC". Grow a set
    Them that don't know him won't like him, and them that do sometimes won't know how to take him

    He ain't wrong, he's just different, and his pride won't let him do things to make you think he's right

    They don't put Championship rings on smooth hands

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    I don't run the football program.... so don't get on to me about it. You're (since I'm stupid I think that is the right usage this time) preaching to the choir about the football program in Columbia. If it was up to me I would run it pretty close to Clemson to be honest. Minus the dumbass comments that Dabo puts out and using the church to cheat haha. I would cheat of course but not use a church to do it. And don't come at me about "taking your ass cuttings". Dabo could've taken that advise about 7 or 8 years ago. Clemson did not have the tradition until about 3 years ago. You are a recent rise to power. Its not a tradition. None the less you are at the top of college football and no one can take that away from you. You answered my question about how I expected you to do.

    PS I don't listen to the Gamecock propaganda network that is 107.5 The Game.

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    Clemson has a relevant football history far beyond 3 years ago, including a National Championship.

    If my answer is what you expected, and my opinion mattered enough for you to ask for it, then why would you continue to take the stance that you took?
    Last edited by trkykilr; 08-03-2020 at 04:13 PM.
    Them that don't know him won't like him, and them that do sometimes won't know how to take him

    He ain't wrong, he's just different, and his pride won't let him do things to make you think he's right

    They don't put Championship rings on smooth hands

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    i have never understood the "sec regular season schedule" debate. the only negative would be injuries. everything else is a positive.

    so, how many injuries occur playing an SEC regular season schedule?
    Ugh. Stupid people piss me off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2thDoc View Post
    i have never understood the "sec regular season schedule" debate. the only negative would be injuries. everything else is a positive.

    so, how many injuries occur playing an SEC regular season schedule?
    The debate is in regard to strength-of-schedule. A weak conference schedule provides a much easier path to the playoffs. Plus, your 2's and 3's have a ton of experience when all your games are blowouts and you can pull your 1's at halftime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trkykilr View Post
    Clemson has a relevant football history far beyond 3 years ago, including a National Championship.

    If my answer is what you expected, and my opinion mattered enough for you to ask for it, then why would you continue to take the stance that you took?
    Clemson was a second tier team until 5 years ago. You weren’t a national power. You can’t deny that.

    I just wanted to see how far you’d take the honesty before you put the orange goggles back on and I got my answer. You took the bait
    Last edited by PJ1012; 08-03-2020 at 05:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ1012 View Post
    Clemson was a second tier team until 5 years ago. You weren’t a national power. You can’t deny that.

    I just wanted to see how far you’d take the honesty before you put the orange goggles back on and I got my answer. You took the bait
    Congrats on setting a proper bait pile. I never even saw that coming.

    There's a difference between being a second tier team, and "no tradition". Clemson was one of the top 25 winningest programs all time, prior to 10 years ago. Clemson certainly hasn't been Bama, Southern Cal, Michigan, etc, but it certainly hasn't been NC State or Miss State. 25 conference titles didn't all come in the last 3 years.
    Them that don't know him won't like him, and them that do sometimes won't know how to take him

    He ain't wrong, he's just different, and his pride won't let him do things to make you think he's right

    They don't put Championship rings on smooth hands

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2thDoc View Post
    i have never understood the "sec regular season schedule" debate. the only negative would be injuries. everything else is a positive.

    so, how many injuries occur playing an SEC regular season schedule?

    Ok let me try and paint a picture for you...see the way this works is....just never mind
    "They are who we thought they were"

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    What do people want to see? People who truly enjoy watching college football tell you. The atmosphere, stadium size, tradition.....
    Get a live mascot.
    Miami wasn’t in the ACC when they were so damn dominate. So the FSU / Miami game wasn’t an ACC matchup.

    Bottom line, look at tv audience size. That will tell you what people want to see. Look at the number 1-3 round picks every year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SCDAWG View Post
    What do people want to see? People who truly enjoy watching college football tell you. The atmosphere, stadium size, tradition.....
    Get a live mascot.
    Miami wasn’t in the ACC when they were so damn dominate. So the FSU / Miami game wasn’t an ACC matchup.

    Bottom line, look at tv audience size. That will tell you what people want to see. Look at the number 1-3 round picks every year.
    I completely agree. I don't think a live mascot makes a real difference, but that's just me. When I watch football, I damn sure don't make sure to tend to the ribs before UVA and BC kick it off. I watch 75% SEC football. It is better with more fans that care. I don't think anyone could argue against that.

    None of this is under Clemson's control, and truth be told, Clemson is keeping the ACC on the stage, while making the conference champion a foregone conclusion.
    Them that don't know him won't like him, and them that do sometimes won't know how to take him

    He ain't wrong, he's just different, and his pride won't let him do things to make you think he's right

    They don't put Championship rings on smooth hands

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    I don’t find football as interesting as some people do, but Missouri was a terrible add for the sec in my opinion.

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    Clemson isn’t responsible for anybody in the ACC except Clemson. I don’t know any other power 5 (non SEC) program who has regularly scheduled 2 SEC teams the last few years outside of Clemson. Clemson went to Auburn and aTm and won and also beat both at home during the recent run. Also beat ND, OSU twice and a top 5 Louisville during the recent run. U of SC has been no match for them the last 6 years. They’ve certainly held their own in the playoffs with the SEC. LSU was better and I give them credit. I would say the SEC West has been brutal without question but until last year the SEC east has been very mediocre outside of Georgia. So to answer your question, yes playing a SEC schedule is tougher but Clemson has done what they need to do to win championships. No apologies needed.

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    tallest midget

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    Good grief...I’m as big a Gamecock fan and Clemsux hater as you will find, but Iron sharpens Iron. LSU played a full SEC schedule and still whooped Clemson’s collective asses. Bama plays a full SEC schedule and haswhooped and been whooped by Clemson. You can argue that a stronger SOS helps a team...you can argue that it hurts. You can easily argue that Clemson, with their SOS could never be prepared to whip Bama senseless...but they did. It’s pointless. This is a painful fact of life at this time...Clemson and Dabo, while being hammered by Spurrier and Carolina for 5 straight freaking years...had a recruiting plan and executed the ever living %#^* out of it. Each of those years, I happily enjoyed reading about us whipping their asses in the Sunday snd Monday papers whilst enjoying a BSL burger...then less than three months later worried and fretted in confusion as I read in the same publication while enjoying those same fantastic burgers about how Clemson had out-recruited us. It wasn’t just the rankings either...the guys they were getting were big, tall, and most impressively...FAST. I hoped like hell and tried to believe in the mantra that “our coaches evaluate talent better and don’t just rely on star power,” and for a while, we won the last regular season game enough to keep that possibility alive, but in the back of my soul...I knew that speed, size, and talent everywhere would eventually overcome repeated classes headlined by short, slow 3-star QB’s and was dumbfounded that a legendary coach known for his O and his QBs and on a ROLL was unable to attract top QBs and athletes at every position to solidify his incredibly successful teams that consisted of a few great-superstars here and there with solid to average players rounding out the show. At some point, as painful as it is to admit when there are so many toothless, sheep-humping, inbred dipshits that are absolutely going to gloat...you have to just step back and give Dabo credit for going out and out-recruiting everyone. You have to give them credit for putting great coaches in place and keeping them. I’m sorry, but every time I see someone on here making the point that Clemson got waxed in the National championship game by the single best, most complete college team I’ve seen in my 52 years of life on this earth when we couldn’t run with their B-team...it’s fuggin stupid. Yes, their OOC schedule is weak, but you can not freaking say that in any attempt to disparage them when we could not step into that same schedule and make a fucking bowl game...OK?! Hopefully God will shine down and it will be revealed that Clemson got to where they are by overt and impossible to ignore cheating and they will get the death penalty...and I’m sure they did so to get that initial roll of recruits back when there was no reason to expect such recruits...but they are in a strong position, and their coaches are still working their asses off, not resting on their laurels...and feeding the machine. There is absolutely no reason to look at Clemson’s performance over the last three years and think that they would not have come out of either side of the SEC and been in the playoffs each of those years...BAMA, Clemsux, and now LSU are on par with each other and the rest of the country is at least two to three notches below. Having one of the most brutal schedules every year might be something I would be bitching about if we were 9-3 or 10-2 or 8-4 with a couple of competitive losses that we would have likely won had a key player or two not been injured. So, please...for the love of God...just stop! Things are cyclical and crazy, unexpected changes of tides happen. Carolina will be whipping Clemson’s ass sometime in the future...but give them credit where credit is due and let the likes of Bama fans make the weak schedule argument...the weak schedule actually made a difference in their last game...it has not affected the outcome of our game with them in many years.
    “I can’t wait ‘till I’m grown” is the stupidest @!#* I ever said!

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