Tier 1 vs Tier 2 boats.

[Dawhoo]

One of the funniest things to watch is someone (boat salesman or private seller) babble about why a certain boat is worth so much.
After an hour of pointing out “custom hand made parts” that in reality cost more to ship than to manufacture, the end conclusion is “that’s what they’re going for.”

The idea that a boat is worth more than a truck is absurd.

Okay I will bite... regarding skiffs

alot of it has to do with economies of scale. No skiff manufacturers can afford atomization, hence lamination becomes a very rime intensive process. Also the materials are expensive especially regarding Kevlar if you are wanting a boat that is light enough to push in wind which is common place is most of range of these boats.

[SouthernWake]

Okay I will bite... regarding skiffs

alot of it has to do with economies of scale. No skiff manufacturers can afford atomization, hence lamination becomes a very rime intensive process. Also the materials are expensive especially regarding Kevlar if you are wanting a boat that is light enough to push in wind which is common place is most of range of these boats.

From what I gather Kevlar is being moved away from as it is not that light and absorbs water. The push for carbon is crazy $. I think there is a point at which ride suffers for lightweight and poling in wind can be tougher with a light boat.

There is also a labor/additional costs associated with infusion vs bLasting a chopper gun into a mold.

Is it better to buy a 80k boat that’s worth 70k in 5 years or a 50k boat worth 20k in 5 years?

[JABIII]

I guess I should have said explain it to me like I am a Boykin owner...

The only way a center console makes it into a "Tier 1" offshore fishing conversation is if someone wants to know if there are one or 2 cc's on the bow...

[willk]

One of the funniest things to watch is someone (boat salesman or private seller) babble about why a certain boat is worth so much.
After an hour of pointing out “custom hand made parts” that in reality cost more to ship than to manufacture, the end conclusion is “that’s what they’re going for.”

The idea that a boat is worth more than a truck is absurd.

The pricetag some of these trucks carry is what is absurd.

[BOGSTER]

No doubt Will.

I’ll be on the island tomorrow - what’s for lunch?

[BOGSTER]

Okay I will bite... regarding skiffs

alot of it has to do with economies of scale. No skiff manufacturers can afford atomization, hence lamination becomes a very rime intensive process. Also the materials are expensive especially regarding Kevlar if you are wanting a boat that is light enough to push in wind which is common place is most of range of these boats.

I understand your points and have heard them before.

It still doesn’t add up. A new Mitzi is what, 30k?



Any boat owner with any size boat, new or used will tell you that annual maintenance costs are ridiculous. Minor and major fixes are a part of the game.

With the amount of use the average 25ft CC gets by the average Joe vs the retail price and maintenance.... people have lost their minds.

A new Chevrolet Z71 is about 70k loaded.
Gets driven every day and requires little more than an oil change and tires (depending on how much you drive)
Will last you decades of daily us.

Any sizable boat be it a 23ft key west or a 42ft yellowfin will rack up thousands of annual maintenance costs no matter how you take care of it.

No man will be able to convince me that a vehicle, used 20 times a year, with double the annual maintenance costs is equally as valuable as a daily vehicle, with minimal maintenance costs.

Something is always breaking on a boat....any boat, new or 30 years old.

And we continue to pay for a shitty product as a whole.

[JBtflo]

Great post. I can see paying 25% more for the best but nearly twice really had me scratching my head.

Buy two, put one in the shed. When boat #1 starts to break down, sell it and start using boat #2.

[Southernduck]

I understand your points and have heard them before.

It still doesn’t add up. A new Mitzi is what, 30k?



Any boat owner with any size boat, new or used will tell you that annual maintenance costs are ridiculous. Minor and major fixes are a part of the game.

With the amount of use the average 25ft CC gets by the average Joe vs the retail price and maintenance.... people have lost their minds.

A new Chevrolet Z71 is about 70k loaded.
Gets driven every day and requires little more than an oil change and tires (depending on how much you drive)
Will last you decades of daily us.

Any sizable boat be it a 23ft key west or a 42ft yellowfin will rack up thousands of annual maintenance costs no matter how you take care of it.

No man will be able to convince me that a vehicle, used 20 times a year, with double the annual maintenance costs is equally as valuable as a daily vehicle, with minimal maintenance costs.

Something is always breaking on a boat....any boat, new or 30 years old.

And we continue to pay for a shitty product as a whole.

Break
Out
Another
Ten (thousand depending on the size)

Sounds to me like DT needs to adhere to the 3 F's rules.

[Duck Tape]

Buy two, put one in the shed. When boat #1 starts to break down, sell it and start using boat #2.

Finally a well thought out answer.

[Duck Tape]

Tier 1 vs Tier 2

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bus...-2017-12%3famp

I think I am in Tier 6.

I had a head turner twice. It was a thrill but not worth the dough. Im sure it is the same with boats.

[Saltydog235]

I doubt I'd ever buy a brand new boat again, not at the costs associated with them. You can buy an older quality hull with reliable power at a fraction of the cost. Things like electronics and engines are easily replaceable or repairable when they do break, gel coat looks bad, paint it with Awlcraft, no more waxing or oxidation. No you won't likely have the warranty but you also don't have the premium price either. Engines are an expensive part with a lot of them pushing $60-$80K for a unit for new and a 5yr warranty or you can get on places like THT and find some idiot that has to have that new set with 50 extra HP on the cowling because it is the latest and greatest and is selling a pair of 2yo engines with warranty left and a few hundred hours on them for 1/2 or less the price of the new ones. Or you can get a good mechanic to repair or rebuild the old ones at a fraction of that cost.

Boats have never been an investment and seldom are you going to recoup the cost in one. Honestly, they are money pits in most cases. These cheaper mass produced ones seem to be more money pit than others but still it is ridiculous to spend $250K+ on a boat that is worth a fraction of that in a few years, buy the older used model and let someone else eat the depreciation. Hulls don't change all that drastically, power and electronics do. I have 2007 F250's on the SP with 1200hrs getting serviced now, they run great and should be good for a while. I've toyed with the idea of hanging 300's on the back but it gains me 3mph top end, doesn't really change the fuel economy and about the only benefit would be 200+/-lbs less weight hanging on the stern. My electronics are 13yo Simrads with a newer AP and old Northstar radar, all of them work. Doesn't have the clarity or processor speed the new ones have, can't 3D map the bottom but we can find the fish and that is all the matters. I know I'll have to replace them sooner or later but I'm holding out, that stuff changes so quickly that when you think you're getting a deal, they introduce a new model and the software support for the old ones goes away in a few years. I was looking at a good bargain on the Simrad EVO3's, now the EVO3s is coming out with a good bit higher price and from what I'm hearing a 3yr software support for the older EVO3, $8K in new electronics and only 3yrs for software support doesn't seem like a wise place to spend money so, I'll wait some more.

To me it isn't about the worth of a boat, it's about taking my kids and friends out to make memories. Teaching my boys how to be self sufficient, having a good time and seeing the smiles on their faces. Being on the water is going to cost you, the pay to play axiom is relevant here but, you can do it for less by taking your time, doing research and being ready to jump when the right thing comes along.

From what I see, Freeman is about the only one where you can break or stay even in the cost of ownership. Heck, some of those guys are using build slots are short term investments they are so hot. That's a gamble if the music stops though. Then there's the guy that got one three years ago and immediately paid for another slot, uses the current one for three years and sells it for what he paid for it or in some cases more. Though that takes disposable income to do, more than I have anyway.

Not even going to touch the truck thing with the luck or lack thereof I've had with them lately.

[Whackumstackum]

All of them have issues but a 3 piece top tier offshore center console will get you there quicker more comfortably and are typically made using better processes and better components. Sure they all may have an issue here or there but that Regulator is going to take a lot more abuse than a seafox and be worth twice as much when its 5 years old. You cant compare boats to pickups because boats are a luxury item and unless that's how you make your living you don't need one. And there aren't many real guides fishing mid tier boats.

[BOGSTER]

I can name like a dozen guides from Georgetown to Beaufort that have “mid tier” boats.

Also, the notion that a boat is a luxury item is the exact reason the prices have been jacked up.

[2thDoc]

bog--youre talking to people that put 10K into a 50k truck.

i dont have 10k in four of my cars, combined.

I saved enough for a boat, but bought beer instead.

Win win

Now, dont you and will go eating all my fish.

[Duck Tape]

All of them have issues but a 3 piece top tier offshore center console will get you there quicker more comfortably and are typically made using better processes and better components. Sure they all may have an issue here or there but that Regulator is going to take a lot more abuse than a seafox and be worth twice as much when its 5 years old. You cant compare boats to pickups because boats are a luxury item and unless that's how you make your living you don't need one. And there aren't many real guides fishing mid tier boats.

Good summary. So you believe a new 32 Regulator is worth 150k more than the Sportsman?

[SouthernWake]

I can name like a dozen guides from Georgetown to Beaufort that have “mid tier” boats.

Also, the notion that a boat is a luxury item is the exact reason the prices have been jacked up.

It’s a lot easier to be profitable with a paid off boat than having a large payment hanging over your head.

[Whackumstackum]

I can name like a dozen guides from Georgetown to Beaufort that have “mid tier” boats.

Also, the notion that a boat is a luxury item is the exact reason the prices have been jacked up.

Oh im sure you do.......... Bet I can name 20 that fish top tier rigs.

Good summary. So you believe a new 32 Regulator is worth 150k more than the Sportsman?

Absolutely.

[DRDUCK]

I guess I should have said explain it to me like I am a Boykin owner...

The only way a center console makes it into a "Tier 1" offshore fishing conversation is if someone wants to know if there are one or 2 cc's on the bow...

Yep. You get it

[Southernduck]

Oh im sure you do.......... Bet I can name 20 that fish top tier rigs.



Absolutely.

And of those 20, how many are on guide programs or burning trust funds? The guide programs are such that these guys basically run a boat for the cost of gas and maintenance and they roll them every year or two.

Its just like farmers or contractors rolling equipment. Its all good til the music stops.

[Duck Tape]

In my conservative opinion, recreational boats are a toy. Toys should be purchased with cash not credit.

Business investments are different.

I can't see how anyone can pay $400,000 for a new 32 ft CC and make a living. I guess the "guides" program has to be the way to make it work.