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Thread: If you have no data then management can’t be wrong

  1. #21
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    I used to fly some of the mid-winter surveys in NC before I retired. They were discontinued three years ago. The USFWS no longer thought that the data was valuable so they no longer funded the surveys. If the states want to pick up the tab for the plane and the pilot they can do their own surveys. I was always surprised at the overall number of birds I tallied yet everyone would complain about the lack of birds. Most of the birds were found rafted up far out in the sounds, in urban/suburban lakes and ponds, state parks, any location where hunting pressure was minimal. I know of one small state park lake that would hold 20-30,000 waterfowl every winter. It was isolated, closed to hunting, and surrounded by a lot of private land that had very little waterfowl hunting interests (mostly deer hunters). Birds will not tolerate heavy hunting pressure and disturbance and will seek out and find areas where they can rest and feed without being shot at.
    Last edited by Downeast; 03-09-2020 at 05:32 AM.
    "We have become so open minded that our brains have fallen out"

  2. #22
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    Generally contracts prevent sales of these type of gifts like Samworth.

    WE are going to repair it.
    Either write things worth reading, or do things worth writing.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOGSTER View Post
    What’s your plan?
    I have been attending aquatic council meetings when possible. (wish they would move them to better times of the day) I have also been reading research on aquatic vegetation both native and non-native species. As well as different chemicals currently being used by the management plan like glyphosate. Reading different research articles on the affect of plants on filtering metals from the water and the different chemicals being used and how they interact with everything. Need to be informed to be able to support an argument as well as to better inform others.

    Next thing is to get as many involved as possible. We need as many as we can get to have a bigger impact. Votes move politicians more than sound science and research. The more we get the more we can get done.

    One thing I am going to be doing this summer is visiting as many of the CAT 2 areas as possible. One of the things I will be doing this summer is visiting these areas and trying to get as much information about the areas as possible. That would be getting information about what the area was like and getting current data about various aquatic plants that grow. I think that many of the CAT 2 areas need a lot of work and would like to have as much information to present on as many as possible.

    Another thing I have noticed is the health of grass carp has almost been ignored. Stocking has continued even though the health of the already stocked carp is low. So I will be taking as many pictures as I can while on the water this summer.

    One option I have discussed with a few others is the ability to start a native aquatic vegetation restoration program. Have ran into a few problems with this the biggest being even with permission from DNR would be hard to spend time and money on areas then having someone else spray chemicals to kill what was just planted.

    I know does not sound much like a plan yet but need to collect as much data and information as possible. The more information we have and the more support we have the better the end result can become.
    “Duck hunting gives a man a chance to see the loneliest places …blinds washed by a rolling surf, blue and gold autumn marshes, …a rice field in the rain, flooded pin-oak forests or any remote river delta. In duck hunting the scene is as important as the shooting.” ~ Erwin Bauer, The Duck Hunter’s Bible, 1965

  4. #24
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    And the problem is people gift things to the state that require a lot of taxpayer resources but don’t benefit the taxpayer well
    cut\'em

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck Tape View Post
    Generally contracts prevent sales of these type of gifts like Samworth.

    WE are going to repair it.
    Unless Trump brings his magic wand, I won’t hold my breath.
    Be proactive about improving public waterfowl habitat in South Carolina. It's not going to happen by itself, and our help is needed. We have the potential to winter thousands of waterfowl on public grounds if we fight for it.

  6. #26
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    Ive walked this exact path... I wish you better luck.

    Quote Originally Posted by darealdeal View Post
    I have been attending aquatic council meetings when possible. (wish they would move them to better times of the day) I have also been reading research on aquatic vegetation both native and non-native species. As well as different chemicals currently being used by the management plan like glyphosate. Reading different research articles on the affect of plants on filtering metals from the water and the different chemicals being used and how they interact with everything. Need to be informed to be able to support an argument as well as to better inform others.

    Next thing is to get as many involved as possible. We need as many as we can get to have a bigger impact. Votes move politicians more than sound science and research. The more we get the more we can get done.

    One thing I am going to be doing this summer is visiting as many of the CAT 2 areas as possible. One of the things I will be doing this summer is visiting these areas and trying to get as much information about the areas as possible. That would be getting information about what the area was like and getting current data about various aquatic plants that grow. I think that many of the CAT 2 areas need a lot of work and would like to have as much information to present on as many as possible.

    Another thing I have noticed is the health of grass carp has almost been ignored. Stocking has continued even though the health of the already stocked carp is low. So I will be taking as many pictures as I can while on the water this summer.

    One option I have discussed with a few others is the ability to start a native aquatic vegetation restoration program. Have ran into a few problems with this the biggest being even with permission from DNR would be hard to spend time and money on areas then having someone else spray chemicals to kill what was just planted.

    I know does not sound much like a plan yet but need to collect as much data and information as possible. The more information we have and the more support we have the better the end result can become.
    Be proactive about improving public waterfowl habitat in South Carolina. It's not going to happen by itself, and our help is needed. We have the potential to winter thousands of waterfowl on public grounds if we fight for it.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck Tape View Post
    Generally contracts prevent sales of these type of gifts like Samworth.

    WE are going to repair it.
    DT - what are “we”.... meaning our money going to differently than say the past 10 years over there?

    Did those managing Samworth all of a sudden have an epiphany and are now capable of drawing ducks there?

    Or are we taking an Out with the Old, in with the New approach?
    Be proactive about improving public waterfowl habitat in South Carolina. It's not going to happen by itself, and our help is needed. We have the potential to winter thousands of waterfowl on public grounds if we fight for it.

  8. #28
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    OK. Here's the deal. Try to pay attention because I'm only going to say it one (more) time.

    The government doles out money like they print it. Whoever gets the money has to justify MORE money each year. The politicians have no clue how that money is spent but they see the paperwork where they are spending it and asked for more. So, they give them more. Sooner or later, someone who gives a shit about that little niche comes along and says "where are you spending the money?" THEN, people talk and talk and talk and talk (on the www) until someone tells you to email your rep bc that will fix everything.

    Until there is some accountability, nothing will change. There is more than enough money and not enough "give-a-shit."

    The end.
    Ugh. Stupid people piss me off.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Downeast View Post
    I used to fly some of the mid-winter surveys in NC before I retired. They were discontinued three years ago. The USFWS no longer thought that the data was valuable so they no longer funded the surveys. If the states want to pick up the tab for the plane and the pilot they can do their own surveys. I was always surprised at the overall number of birds I tallied yet everyone would complain about the lack of birds. Most of the birds were found rafted up far out in the sounds, in urban/suburban lakes and ponds, state parks, any location where hunting pressure was minimal. I know of one small state park lake that would hold 20-30,000 waterfowl every winter. It was isolated, closed to hunting, and surrounded by a lot of private land that had very little waterfowl hunting interests (mostly deer hunters). Birds will not tolerate heavy hunting pressure and disturbance and will seek out and find areas where they can rest and feed without being shot at.

    I would add that this is the same USFWS that continues to push the Red Wolf program into the millions of dollars annually in an environment over laden with coyotes. The same USFW that shoved the Mckenzie valley wolf right down the throats and of which have led to bankruptcy of the families, ranchers and businesses that have historically serviced the Elk and Mule Deer hunters. The same that has spent millions on a wolf and moose program in Michigan and has just restocked an island with wolves. The same that spends millions on Salamanders and wood peckers annually and yet that is backing away from waterfowl, whitetail, turkey, quail efforts and data collection. See that trend?
    Last edited by Strick9; 03-09-2020 at 10:35 AM.
    Genesis 9;2

  10. #30
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    We means Our tax money.

    I have spent most of my adult life participating in organizations to conserve and improve hunting and fishing.

    I have spent 14 years of my life in the legislature getting to the committee that can help.


    I am now in a position to help fund priorities for DNR and the Conservation Bank with my Chairmanship over the budget subcommittee where these budgets reside.


    I can't promise to restore Samworth to it's former glory but I will get the dikes fixed and push for better management.

    If it holds I have put 2.8 million of unrequested funds fix Samworth with the remaindering to other Cat 1s.
    Either write things worth reading, or do things worth writing.

  11. #31
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    I am now in a position to help fund priorities for DNR and the Conservation Bank with my Chairmanship over the budget subcommittee where these budgets reside.
    I applaud your efforts, but one thing I would love to see is more accountability for those you give money to.
    and yes I understand the challenges there.
    Ugh. Stupid people piss me off.

  12. #32
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    You'd have a better chance of getting $1.7 million from the Feds for a study to see if the salamanders on Strick's Michigan island are being eaten by the wolves than a true accounting of anything duck related with SCDNR...

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck Tape View Post
    We means Our tax money.

    I have spent most of my adult life participating in organizations to conserve and improve hunting and fishing.

    I have spent 14 years of my life in the legislature getting to the committee that can help.


    I am now in a position to help fund priorities for DNR and the Conservation Bank with my Chairmanship over the budget subcommittee where these budgets reside.


    I can't promise to restore Samworth to it's former glory but I will get the dikes fixed and push for better management.

    If it holds I have put 2.8 million of unrequested funds fix Samworth with the remaindering to other Cat 1s.
    I understand and am one of the few that thanks you for coming to the public with wildlife issues
    Most of your colleagues couldn’t care less.

    That said, I, as a tax paying, wildlife conservationist, with a decent grasp on waterfowl in this state (public and private) am stating that I (along with many others) do not see Samworth as a worthy return on our investment.

    That 2.8 could definitely be put to better use in terms of providing the hunters of South Carolina more opportunities at quality duck hunting.
    A fraction of that could revitalize 2-3 Cat2 WMAs, which would provide hundreds of hunters a weekly chance at hundreds of ducks season long, versus 11 hunters 3 ducks (Samworth’s season total)
    Be proactive about improving public waterfowl habitat in South Carolina. It's not going to happen by itself, and our help is needed. We have the potential to winter thousands of waterfowl on public grounds if we fight for it.

  14. #34
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    Unfortunately I have billions of dollars to watch in 11 agencies.


    A part-time representative does not stand a chance figuring what was actually done with the money. Even if it is reported in the category you directed you will never know if it all actually was. Don't get me started on inefficiency.
    Either write things worth reading, or do things worth writing.

  15. #35
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    DT- Why don’t you go to any one of the WMAs you badmouth? Why don’t you take a ride down a dike and look at what our people are talking about?
    Don’t tell me you are too busy with all of your other responsibilities, because if that’s so, then you have no business making uninformed statements.

  16. #36
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    Badmouth? Several local people who live in the Georgetown area testified about the WMAs.

    DNR testified they needed 27 million for Cat 1 repairs.
    9.6 in Samworth, Delta, and Coastal.
    Either write things worth reading, or do things worth writing.

  17. #37
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    Go Walk The Dikes...

  18. #38
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    I think it would be a great idea for those in charge of allocating the money to see first hand what the requested money is going to do.
    Be proactive about improving public waterfowl habitat in South Carolina. It's not going to happen by itself, and our help is needed. We have the potential to winter thousands of waterfowl on public grounds if we fight for it.

  19. #39
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    B- they have been told that time and again, even offered helicopter and boat rides!

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