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Thread: Food for thought on the Aquatic Management Plan

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    Default Food for thought on the Aquatic Management Plan

    As things seem deem and the responses from the council little we have one group that is trying to hold those responsible accountable. We all talk about the good old or at least us younger guys listen to the older fellas y’all about the good ole days and yet a lot of the time all we do is talk. It is about high tide we as a group stand up and let them know we will not stand idly by and let them destroy what we hold dear. As I was scrolling through and the management plan and reading about some of the chemicals used it is insane what they are putting in the water. As I was doing this I happen to check Facebook and see someone was doing jus the exact same. This was posted to Facebook and figured I would include it here for those that are not on Facebook. Just want to say thanks Strick9 for doing what you do and I hope that we can come together and make a change. Please take the time to read this and do just a little research on your own. This information is easy to find and we should not let this continue.

    Sorry for typos and grammar typing on a phone.

    "South Carolina Aquatic Management plan"

    The Math behind the Madness

    From the Aquatic Management Report:

    Today, while waiting on a meeting to begin, I did some math with figures taken directly from the SC Aquatic Management Plan.

    It didn't take long to put together but it certainly opened my eyes even further.

    Let me first ask a question, did you know that at present almost every single lake and river in SC has a fish consumption advisory?

    These advisories state that due to the toxicity of the fish that you shouldn't eat more than one meal of various fish species per week. How terribly sad is that? Did you also know that within the Aquatic Management Plan that the leading reasoning for spraying herbicides is to promote fishing? Do you find this ironic?

    In 2020 SC as a whole, either through taxation or consumption via electrical power fees, will spend $1.26 million on chemical applications used upon our states public rivers, lakes and ponds.

    Lets look at the chemicals that being used and the rates applied :

    Triclopyr - 0.500 - 0.750 gallons per acre.

    Diquat - 0.500 gallons per acre.

    Imazamox - 0.250 - 0.750 gallons per acre.

    Glyphosate - up to 0.937 gallons per acre.

    Copper* - up to 1 ppm (about 10- 16 gallons per acre).

    Copper*/Diquat - 4 gallons/2 gallons per acre

    Imazapyr – 0.250 - 0.750 gallons per acre.

    Penoxsulam - Submersed 0.174 fl oz/acre foot to achieve minimum effective concentration of 25 to 75 ppb, Floating species – 2 to 6 fl oz/acre as foliar application.

    ProcellaCOR-SC - 1-5 PDUs per acre foot for submersed application, 1-2 PDUs per acre for foliar application.

    Now lets put this into perspective as to how much of these chemicals will be used on our public lakes, rivers and ponds.

    For general purpose and ease of understanding, lets just look at the most common chemicals used as listed in the plan for everyone of our public lakes : Diquat, Tricopyr, Imazomox and Glyphosphate.

    If we take the acreages given in the plan "to be treated" and multiply those acreages by the application rates we can easily figure out the amount of chemical to be used upon our public waters. Obviously far more are used as we left so many out of the list.

    Now, at this point, I would suggest that each and everyone of you take a look at the toxicity rating per the EPA on each of these chemicals while remembering those fish consumption advisories. Then, if I were you I would take the time to look at your own local lake's fish consumption advisories. I would also ask that you look at where your drinking water comes from as well.

    To be clear, I am not saying that each of these advisories is due to these particular chemicals. I am however saying that adding chemicals upon sedimentary stored chemicals can certainly alter the mix via reaction. We must never dismiss the known fact of chemical uptake into the environment nor the reaction of chemical synergism as related to uptake.

    Total of only the most commonly used Chemicals to be used in 2020 upon SC public waters:

    Diquat= 8,652 gallons

    Triclopyr = 12,978 gallons

    Imazomox= 12,978 gallons

    Glyphosphate 16,213 gallons

    Often in each area to be treated we also see this notation where Hydrilla is concerned =

    * May be toxic to fish at recommended treatment rates; however, precautions will be implemented to minimize the risk of fish kills.

    Now if you wanted to see the bigger picture, you could look at the last ten years of treatment by simply multiplying those numbers by a factor of 10 :

    Diquat= 80,652 gallons

    Triclopyr = 120,978 gallons

    Imazomox= 120,978 gallons

    Glyphosphate 160,213 gallons

    And in economical terms , over the last 10 years SC has spent well over $10 million dollars on chemically treating aquatic vegetation.

    I would say its high time that we ask why ventilator masks and protective suits are highly recommended while using these chemicals and most certainly push for more mechanical harvesting period.
    -Strick9
    Last edited by darealdeal; 02-13-2020 at 11:13 PM.
    “Duck hunting gives a man a chance to see the loneliest places …blinds washed by a rolling surf, blue and gold autumn marshes, …a rice field in the rain, flooded pin-oak forests or any remote river delta. In duck hunting the scene is as important as the shooting.” ~ Erwin Bauer, The Duck Hunter’s Bible, 1965

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    Yeah I wouldn’t go by the numbers listed in the plan to do my figuring. I’d probably use the actual numbers.

    http://www.dnr.sc.gov/water/envaff/aquatic/current.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by CreekGeek View Post
    Yeah I wouldn’t go by the numbers listed in the plan to do my figuring. I’d probably use the actual numbers.

    http://www.dnr.sc.gov/water/envaff/aquatic/current.html


    The numbers mentioned above are from the 2020/2021 state management plan and includes not only SCDNR sole source treatments but also includes SCDNR partnerships and also non SCDNR funded treatment areas as to public reservoir treatments not controlled by SCNDR via Duke energy, Santee Cooper etc.

    Your list/attachment as I understand it, per talking with SCDNR ( I saw that awhile back and asked) only applies to what SCDNR is sole source treating. Some confusion still exists for me in this area , as many treatment areas cross reference over in different ways in the APMC vs SCDNR. Odd.

    At any rate, if you look at the SCDNR attachment you provided, it leaves out both Santee Cooper lakes, Wateree, Greenwood, (*does include 2 acres on Murray lulz), Keowee, Hartwell, Russell etc which are included in the APMC and are certainly treated.

    Further it leaves out several WMAs that were also treated Potatoe, Hatchery etc.

    Hope that clears up the numbers.
    Last edited by Strick9; 02-14-2020 at 12:37 AM.
    Genesis 9;2

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    Quote Originally Posted by darealdeal View Post

    To be clear, I am not saying that each of these advisories is due to these particular chemicals. I am however saying that adding chemicals upon sedimentary stored chemicals can certainly alter the mix via reaction. We must never dismiss the known fact of chemical uptake into the environment nor the reaction of chemical synergism as related to uptake.


    -Strick9
    While I agree that there should be caution with the use of chemical herbicides, most, if not all, of SCDHEC's fish consumption advisories are for mercury and/or PCBs. I do see the pesticide chlordane listed for Lake Conestee, but that was banned in 1998.

    https://www.scdhec.gov/food-safety/f...ion-advisories

    I'd be interested to learn more about how mercury and PCB uptake by the food chain is increased by herbicide use.

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    I can tell you how it’s decreased.

    Abstract
    The effectiveness of four aquatic plants including water hyacinth (Eichornia crassipes), water lettuce (Pistia stratiotes), zebra rush (Scirpus tabernaemontani) and taro (Colocasia esculenta) were evaluated for their capabilities in removing mercury from water. The plants were exposed to concentrations of 0 mg/L, 0.5 mg/L or 2 mg/L of mercury for 30 days. Assays were conducted using both Microtox (water) and cold vapor Atomic Absorption Spectroscopy (AAS) (roots and water). The Microtox results indicated that the mercury induced acute toxicity had been removed from the water. AAS confirmed an increase of mercury within the plant root tissue and a corresponding decrease of mercury in the water. All species of plants appeared to reduce mercury concentrations in the water via root uptake and accumulation. Water lettuce and water hyacinth appeared to be the most effective, followed by taro and zebra rush, respectively.

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    After years of attending the meetings the way I understand it is that the plan is not actually what they plan to treat but more of a representation of any possible treatments that may occur if a situation arises. The Spreadsheet is what actually occurred minus Santee Cooper as they spray their own, pay for their own and keep their own records. You do have to look at two years spreadsheet to get one years worth of treatment due to their fiscal year running July 1 to June 30.

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    Well I know that Greenwood has been treated and it is not on the list. I know they have treated native vegetation in the very few places it started to come back. It was in no way in anyone’s way yet homeowners complained that they couldn’t get to their docks and they didn’t want to swim in the vegetation. It was Val and it was treated at least twice in the last year that I know of in every cove it was starting to come back in. I know of several areas in the upstate lakes that have been treated and it wasn’t invasive plants.
    “Duck hunting gives a man a chance to see the loneliest places …blinds washed by a rolling surf, blue and gold autumn marshes, …a rice field in the rain, flooded pin-oak forests or any remote river delta. In duck hunting the scene is as important as the shooting.” ~ Erwin Bauer, The Duck Hunter’s Bible, 1965

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    Glyphosphate loves Chelation with heavy metals.
    Last edited by Strick9; 02-14-2020 at 11:01 AM.
    Genesis 9;2

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    How do you think an investor owned utility like NextEra/Dominion will address such concerns. Profit for shareholder or working with SCDNR and others for environmental improvement within SC?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sc_slim View Post
    How do you think an investor owned utility like NextEra/Dominion will address such concerns. Profit for shareholder or working with SCDNR and others for environmental improvement within SC?
    I do not see how having vegetation in the lake would cut into profits..... What my small little understanding is and the reasons listed for treating some areas is for power generation, access, "hunting/fishing", looks, and a few others reasons...... I do not really see how some small vegetation can cause that much damage to such a well built machine like a hydroelectric dam. Does not matter as long as someone is making money off of the treatment then it will continue regardless of what happens to the ecosystem. If we as a private land owner was treating a wetland like they treat the rivers and lakes we would be held accountable by the same agencies do this. It is about high time they are held accountable. We need SAVs and various other forms of vegetation in our lakes not just for wildlife but for cleaner water.
    “Duck hunting gives a man a chance to see the loneliest places …blinds washed by a rolling surf, blue and gold autumn marshes, …a rice field in the rain, flooded pin-oak forests or any remote river delta. In duck hunting the scene is as important as the shooting.” ~ Erwin Bauer, The Duck Hunter’s Bible, 1965

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    Quote Originally Posted by sc_slim View Post
    How do you think an investor owned utility like NextEra/Dominion will address such concerns. Profit for shareholder or working with SCDNR and others for environmental improvement within SC?
    NextEra and Dominion are two entirely different looking fellows on the environmental face. NextEra , from ongoing research with lots of folks and rating checks and strictly in my opine, would be much more likely to work with SCDNR as to environmental benefits. I also think that Santee Cooper , as to the environment is doing a far better job , so as to that direction of questioning. I would opt option 3 if they clean up their act.
    Genesis 9;2

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    Did anybody attend the meeting?

    I was told that it was stated that there was 140 acres of Hydrilla left on Lake Moultrie between Angels and Russellville.

    Did anybody else hear that?

    If so, they need to learn the difference between native Elodea and Hydrilla before they go in with their spraying equipment.. There is NO Hydrilla but a good bit of Elodea. I'm beginning to think this crowd just wants tp spray anything green, without doing their homework.


    Elodea

    "Elodea canadensis (American waterweed or Canadian waterweed or pondweed) is a perennial aquatic plant, or submergent macrophyte, native to most of North America.[1][2][3]"




    Hydrilla

    Last edited by Catdaddy; 02-18-2020 at 12:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catdaddy View Post
    Did anybody attend the meeting?

    I was told that it was stated that there was 140 acres of Hydrilla left on Lake Moultrie between Angels and Russellville.

    Did anybody else hear that?

    If so, they need to learn the difference between native Elodea and Hydrilla before they go in with their spraying equipment.. There is NO Hydrilla but a good bit of Elodea. I'm beginning to think this crowd just wants tp spray anything green, without doing their homework.


    Elodea

    "Elodea canadensis (American waterweed or Canadian waterweed or pondweed) is a perennial aquatic plant, or submergent macrophyte, native to most of North America.[1][2][3]"




    Hydrilla

    Does not matter to some what type of vegetation it is. Heck we had a decent stand of VAL coming back in a few lakes here this past summer and it was treated twice. I will say that at the meeting last year it was brought up that it was a native vegetation and that it does help with water quality and the homeowners present at the meeting did not care at all. They just wanted it gone even saying that they spotted hydrilla within the VAL growing.
    “Duck hunting gives a man a chance to see the loneliest places …blinds washed by a rolling surf, blue and gold autumn marshes, …a rice field in the rain, flooded pin-oak forests or any remote river delta. In duck hunting the scene is as important as the shooting.” ~ Erwin Bauer, The Duck Hunter’s Bible, 1965

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    S-C is as bad as politicians.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jozie & Me View Post
    Tigernet is like Porn to DABoIII. He NEVER makes it to the end

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwilliams View Post
    S-C is as bad as politicians.
    As much as I hate to say it you’re right. I’ve been following this for many many years and it seems as though they give you a little lip service, everyone believes they are moving towards a balance between homeowners and sportsmen, and then they wipe everything out again. I was very hopeful things were going to turn around after the drought years, but look where we are now.

    As long as someone high enough that doesn’t want the grass has the ear of an upper level there, there won’t be a single change. I grew up with many of the old guard executives there and have a pretty good understanding of how things work. As much as I would hate for a lot of people I know to potentially lose their jobs, I’m at the point where I almost want the sale to go through. The new owner certainly can’t do much worse.

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    The big mats of elodea that you see is Brazilian elodea. It is not native.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GMAC View Post
    The big mats of elodea that you see is Brazilian elodea. It is not native.
    Maybe so but if I'm in charge of spraying and making my annual a Aquatic presentation and plan, identifying and representing Elodea as Hydrilla hurts my credibility.

    Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Catdaddy; 02-19-2020 at 07:23 AM.

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    you would think the brazilian elodea would be less "hairy"
    Ugh. Stupid people piss me off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2thDoc View Post
    you would think the brazilian elodea would be less "hairy"
    hahahaha...I get it toofer.....You made a funny.....and I agree....should have just the stem
    Quote Originally Posted by Jozie & Me View Post
    Tigernet is like Porn to DABoIII. He NEVER makes it to the end

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