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Thread: FL's war on weeds

  1. #1
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    Default FL's war on weeds

    Florida's war on weeds is killing fish and supercharging red tide, opponents say
    By Bill Weir and Shelby Rose, CNN

    Updated 2:35 PM ET, Fri February 7, 2020

    Lake Okeechobee, Florida (CNN)On any given day, helicopters and an armada of airboats fan out across Florida's fresh waters to spray tank after tank of poison. Without the millions of gallons of herbicide poured into rivers and lakes, officials say, the state would be choked with weeds.

    But a growing chorus of fishermen and hunters, naturalists and activists disagree.

    They are convinced that what started as sensible navigation and flood control has turned into a million-dollar-a-month chemical addiction that is killing Florida's natural state.

    To gather evidence, a home builder and angler named Mike Knepper has spent over a year chasing spray boats with a camera drone -- a modern-day David taking aim at a giant.

    When he captures a state contractor spraying weed killer on live birds or baby alligators, or illegally blowing herbicide across wetlands with the fan of an airboat, the videos become stones in his Facebook sling.

    His Goliath is Florida's Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, better known as the FWC, which bats away the criticism.
    Herbicide is sprayed from an air boat on Lake Okeechobee, Florida.
    Herbicide is sprayed from an air boat on Lake Okeechobee, Florida.

    "The FWC takes the mistreatment of wildlife seriously and our contractors are thoroughly trained and monitored," wrote Kipp Frohlich, director at the FWC's Division of Habitat and Species Conservation, on Facebook. He was responding to a September video, narrated by Knepper, which shows contractors on Lake Kissimmee hosing herbicide toward wildlife, including a snail kite -- an endangered bird of prey.

    Either by sloppy chance or cruel intent, some clips show the plume of weed killer following birds as they flee but, according to the FWC, "The video in question does not show any inappropriate behavior. Wildlife was not targeted or harmed ... the treatment will benefit native plants and animals."

    But more viral videos only brought more scrutiny, controversy and eventually a rare concession from the FWC that the herbicide program has gone too far.

    "Despite what you hear on social media, we care about the health of the fish and the wildlife and the ecosystems," said Eric Sutton, the FWC's executive director during a public meeting in December. "We also believe that we would like to see a future that doesn't have to rely upon herbicides."

    While announcing an open call for new ideas, Sutton described a plan to keep a closer eye on contractors by putting GPS-enabled sensors on spray nozzles to record the amount and location of every squirt of poison. "Because we've heard accusations that people are just dumping it," Sutton said. "Well, we're going to hold them accountable."

    But what started as public outcry over a few sprayed animals has now exploded into a statewide debate over a mounting environmental crisis and how a reliance on weed killers could be a major piece in Florida's toxic puzzle. As the FWC focuses on the alleged misuse of herbicides, opponents are pointing out the damage the spraying does when it is used exactly as planned.

    While fast-growing invasive plants outcompete some native species and threaten some waterways, the lush aquatic life serves as the liver and kidneys of Florida's circulatory system. Plants like water hyacinth and water lettuce can clog navigation channels and tangle in propellers, but they are also natural filters that help clean all the pollution flowing out of farms, golf courses and neighborhoods.

    Since 2013, hundreds of square miles of these wetland filters have been sprayed with dozens of different herbicides at a cost of over $100 million.

    "All the water that comes out of this creek and out of that canal used to be filtered before it entered the lake by seven miles of submerged grass," says pro fisherman Brandon Medlock as he motors his bass boat across Lake Okeechobee. "That grass is now gone."

    Beside him is retired pastor and fishing captain Scott Wilson who squeezes his eyes tight with emotion as he describes the changes.

    "When I saw Grassy Island on Lake Kissimmee disappear, I was in tears, sir. I was broken. It was one of the most phenomenal fisheries on this planet."

    They are among the critics who argue that by poisoning these plants and letting them sink to the bottom to rot, the FWC is only adding to the thick layer of fertilized muck that has been building in Florida's wetlands for generations.

    When pollution-rich flood water is released into the sea or when hurricanes churn and spread that muck layer across the Gulf of Mexico, scientists believe it serves as a powerful booster shot for naturally occurring toxic algae blooms, including the devastating red tide.

    "Between our use of nutrients and the development of Florida, warming seas and climate change are we poking the bear?" asks Mike Parsons, a marine scientist and red tide specialist at Florida Gulf Coast University.

    He explains that human activity does not start a red tide -- they've been recorded in the Gulf for centuries -- but modern blooms are becoming longer and more destructive thanks to all the man-made runoff coming out of Florida and down the Mississippi.

    "We know human-contributed nutrients can affect a coastal red tide, and we must expand our data and monitoring efforts to confirm whether and how they did in each specific case," reads the website of Mote Marine Laboratory, an independent research group working with the FWC.

    In 2017, a few months after Hurricane Irma blew across lakes like Kissimmee and Okeechobee, hundreds of tons of dead fish, sea turtles, dolphins and manatees began washing up on Florida beaches.

    As the bloom lingered for 16 months, the state lost millions in tourism and real estate deals. Red tide kills fish and animals that wash up on beaches and can cause illness in humans too. People have been warned not to swim in water affected by a red tide, eat seafood from it, or breathe the air near it.

    "I mean, the only possible way of fixing it is more Mother Nature, especially wetlands, cleaning the water," said William Mitsch, a specialist in freshwater ecology at Florida Gulf Coast University. But as the population of Florida grows by an average of 38 people an hour, a prescription for more wilderness and less development is a heavy political lift.

    While there are biologists on the FWC staff, it is led by well-connected political appointees. Chosen by the governor, the seven-person commission is filled with developers, financiers, the wife of a former commissioner and the golf course designing son of Jack Nicklaus, but no scientists or conservationists.

    In August, Governor Ron DeSantis revived Florida's Red Tide Task Force after 15 years of dormancy and filled it with 11 scientists and specialists as the legislature promised nearly $5 million in funding.

    Whether they report a definitive link between toxic algae blooms and Florida's spraying policies remains to be seen. In the meantime, public pressure fueled by Knepper's videos has led to a moment of reckoning.

    "We have a lot of stakeholders who are complaining that we are doing it wrong," said FWC Commissioner Rodney Barreto in December's call for poison-free ideas. "OK, then tell us how to do it better, OK? If you had a million dollars, how would you do it?"

    "The first thing we have to do is just turn off the nozzles," says Knepper between drone flights. "That doesn't cost anything!"

    He argues that mechanical weed harvesters could handle navigation and flood control demands but big lakes like Okeechobee -- with few lakeside homeowners and water-skiers -- could largely grow wild with no ill effects.

    Brandon Medlock drives his boat on Lake Okeechobee, where he says submerged grass used to help filter the water.
    Brandon Medlock drives his boat on Lake Okeechobee, where he says submerged grass used to help filter the water.

    "We can't boot the 21 million people out of Florida. OK?" Knepper says, voice high with emotion. "We not going to stop growing sugar or mining for phosphorus fertilizer. But the one thing that we can do is stop spraying and killing the filter! So let's just do that!"

    The FWC declined five CNN requests for interviews or comment and has yet to say what new ideas they received or when they might be tested. While a brief spraying pause was enacted last year, the airboats and helicopters keep spraying for now.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/07/us/fl...ide/index.html

  2. #2
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    The other week I talked with a guy I duck hunted with several times almost a decade ago down in Florida. He’s now right at 60, born and raised in the same area he lives now. We talked about a variety of things, then I started asking how this area and that area were doing with hunting ducks. He said they’re so overgrown no ducks are in there anymore. Said between overgrown areas and increase in idiots getting into duck hunting, he had all but quit outright. He had talked before about how controlled burns would help the overgrowth and dead growth more than any chemical, but nothing ever got burned and now areas are gone for the time being at least. Hopefully things can cycle back around. Shame to see such a beautiful place going to crap with poor ideas and judgement.
    Last edited by BEAR; 02-08-2020 at 10:23 AM.

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    There are still plenty of public areas holding good duck numbers and areas of that lake with large amounts of hydrilla.... I had a blast chasing them the 3 years I lived in South Florida. I have passed some of those spots on to fellow scduck members who have reported back good hunts over the last 3 years since I left.
    "The best things in life make you sweaty"
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    “We need the tonic of wildness...At the same time that we are earnest to explore and learn all things, we require that all things be mysterious and unexplorable, that land and sea be indefinitely wild, unsurveyed and unfathomed by us...”
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    strick9 says the atlantic flyway died back in the 90s due to lack of vegetation in the santee cooper lakes. yall need to pay attention.
    Ugh. Stupid people piss me off.

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    I said it was one of the reasons and further presented numbers , dates and timelines that concur. Quantify your tongue, it needs to be re zeroed badly. Afterwards of said fix, would love to see you present some facts to the contrary. Laffn.

    Or you could just read this again.

    You did not use your nose, you used your shoulder chip and you don't follow instructions well do ya? Proper logic would have been to read the mentioned time lines of grass kills in the article as presented, reference the start dates, acreages gained then lost and the date of what was considered final / full eradication.

    Then a person should correlate those time frames as to SC mid wintering waterfowl index numbers as given in lead where I said : "All gassing aside, If its duck numbers wintering in SC pre and post grass eradication (whether it be from herbicides or carp) provided via aerial surveys and WWI #s that you would like, you can and are capable of finding that and it does exist courtesy of your SCNDR and USFWS"

    I hope you know I am in jest, seriously buddy, you are an ahole and you poked so I suspected being one back and poking harder would certainly offer you debridement. Now if you really didn't know I was just playing along with your mantra about aholism, there I said it, I was I even tried to hint to that, my thinly skinned same side comrade.

    Said Inflection was towards the retort of which I get often and mentioned via SCDNR, you may have missed that in a spin out for being called out. PS since their exists an open wound I can't help but pour a little - my sister and my brother in law are also both dentites and are equally sensitive and like to call out seeming flaws in others while both being oddly easily offended by same.. Ok down to business, as we can both be aholes but this is more important. Wait , you didn't retort the use of molars, booo.

    Get back to me when you have the time line to include Hyrdilla/ grasses identified then eradicated vs SC waterfowl numbers in the same time frame.

    Just kidding here it is buddy.


    As to Santee Cooper Reservoirs aquatic removals : and note that the removal process of hydrilla absolutely means the removal of all aquatic grasses in parallel be it Val, Coon, Mill. Di Quats are non selective and carp upon depleting Hydrilla were shown to immediately resort to second tier veg.

    Hydrilla discovered 1982 - managed with light herbicides through 1988 without success - Triploid carp introduced in addition to pellet and spray herbicides in 89-96 with over 3/4 of a million carp released. Hydrilla peaked in 94 with 48,000 acres in the system.

    Here is where you should really pay attention and see the correlation = By 1997 Hydrilla/grasses were virtually eliminated and remains mostly so to this day. ( Something good should be coming, not to let the cat out of the hat). Now we look at SC Mid Wintering Waterfowl index numbers taken by aerial survey which covered the lakes and other concentrated areas and you will see that a huge amount of birds not returning correlates directly and exactly within one year date of the noted final eradication of Hydrilla/grasses. You should also see that as hydrilla/grasses grew so did the duck numbers. HINT HINT you can see the type of ducks in this graph as well, follow the ringer and wigeon.

    So in other words as you can see from this graph, courtesy of our deceased brother Tuffy, Hyrdrilla/grasses "could have" as I am not a "stamped biologist any longer" but most likely were (no other variables present at same time nor removed at same time) the reason for the spike in ducks starting in 83 and were most likely what continued that trend until around 93-94 when both ducks and hyrdrilla/others were at peak numbers. You can easily see, as noted, where Hydrilla/grasses were noted as fully eliminated in 97 that the downward trend started immediately and continued until roughly 2007. I suspect that slightly before 2007-2008 , hint hint, was about the same time that corn ponds starting really growing in density and size and also several prosperous years of past CAT 1 conditions were present.


    Now if one looks at this as clear as it speaks and still denies the millions / billions of nutritional tonnage removed and its effects upon waterfowl, then I can't make you drink the water but can watch ya shrivel. The same eradication program has and is as shown in virtually every southern Atlantic flyway state and on into NJ to the north as well.

    Now remember I correlated 3 factors and am not leaning my hat solely on this issue but I do believe that aquatics being crushed along the Southern Atlantic Flyway was most certainly a giant issue as it removes a scale of food and nutrition that is incommunicable. I most definitely believe that the eradication of grasses in the Santee Cooper system was the reason for the large displacement of waterfowl in SC post 97.. It would be illogical to say otherwise.

    Now who can explain the massive decline from 1963-1982?

    Oh, and check this, I got a reply back from SCNDR to my inquiry on why we don't do aerial waterfowl surveys any longer ( last was 2015). I kid you not the answer was, the "data has limited utility" what does that mean to you?


    Last edited by Strick9; 01-30-2020 at 10:31 AM.
    Genesis 9;2
    Last edited by Strick9; 02-10-2020 at 08:20 PM.
    Genesis 9;2

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    The data has little utility to them, cause they will ignore it anyway, keep dropping in carp, and keep making sure Santee Cooper remains a barren wasteland from a SAV perspective.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Delta in a nutshell: Breeding grounds + small wetlands + big blocks of grass cover + predator removal + nesting structures + enough money to do the job= plenty of ducks to keep everyone smiling!

    "For those that will fight for it...FREEDOM...has a flavor the protected shall never know."
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    Quote Originally Posted by willyworm View Post
    The data has little utility to them, cause they will ignore it anyway, keep dropping in carp, and keep making sure Santee Cooper remains a barren wasteland from a SAV perspective.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    Yep. Also, who knew that toxic chemicals were not good for the waterway? Confusing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn View Post
    Does Elton John know you have his shotgun?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2thDoc View Post
    strick9 says the atlantic flyway died back in the 90s due to lack of vegetation in the santee cooper lakes. yall need to pay attention.
    When was the last time you hunted public water in SC...maybe in the 90's??

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    Member when bass fishermen were bragging about bringing hydrilla to Santee? I member...

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    In all fairness, I don't blame the DNR for the continued stocking of carp. That's on the South Carolina Aquatic Plant Management Council.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Delta in a nutshell: Breeding grounds + small wetlands + big blocks of grass cover + predator removal + nesting structures + enough money to do the job= plenty of ducks to keep everyone smiling!

    "For those that will fight for it...FREEDOM...has a flavor the protected shall never know."
    -L/Cpl Edwin L. "Tim" Craft

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    Quote Originally Posted by JABIII View Post
    Member when bass fishermen were bragging about bringing hydrilla to Santee? I member...
    Yep and not just Santee
    Gettin old is for pussies! AND MY NEW TRUE people say like Capt. Tom >>>>>>>>>/
    "Wow, often imitated but never duplicated. No one can do it like the master. My hat is off to you DRDUCK!"

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    Blame DNR - they make up one third of the APMC, and reside over it in terms of final say.


    Quote Originally Posted by willyworm View Post
    In all fairness, I don't blame the DNR for the continued stocking of carp. That's on the South Carolina Aquatic Plant Management Council.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    Be proactive about improving public waterfowl habitat in South Carolina. It's not going to happen by itself, and our help is needed. We have the potential to winter thousands of waterfowl on public grounds if we fight for it.

  13. #13
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    Good point. Forgot they had that many seats on that council. Speaking of seats, who'd they put in the "governor appointed" seat?

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Delta in a nutshell: Breeding grounds + small wetlands + big blocks of grass cover + predator removal + nesting structures + enough money to do the job= plenty of ducks to keep everyone smiling!

    "For those that will fight for it...FREEDOM...has a flavor the protected shall never know."
    -L/Cpl Edwin L. "Tim" Craft

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