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Thread: Where are the ducks? Answers

  1. #1
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    Default Where are the ducks? Answers




  2. #2
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    Do yourself and the rest of the duck hunting community a favor and watch these.
    Last edited by santee11; 01-23-2020 at 08:19 PM.

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  4. #4
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    At some point, there has to be some serious consideration to this.
    Be proactive about improving public waterfowl habitat in South Carolina. It's not going to happen by itself, and our help is needed. We have the potential to winter thousands of waterfowl on public grounds if we fight for it.

  5. #5
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    I wrote this in June of 2005 and posted it on another site. I still believe it is true.

    We almost lost duck hunting during the heyday of market gunning. The problem was simply that the socioeconomic conditions of the time created a set of circumstances where the livelihood of an increasing number of men depended on killing ducks. Without a major change in the attitude of those involved this would have lead to only one natural conclusion: the total decimation of waterfowl populations to the point that no one could make a living killing ducks. Thankfully men like George “Bird” Grinnell and others started speaking out against what was considered a totally acceptable and honorable way to make a living. The movement to create laws around waterfowling were very unpopular at first. I am sure that many men actually came to blows over disagreements about limit laws and the open-market selling of waterfowl. Eventually though, cooler heads prevailed and while market gunning as a way of life has disappeared, duck hunting as a sport has survived.

    Fast forward 100 years: Once again socioeconomic conditions have created a situation where there are a large number of families whose livelihoods depend on ducks being killed. The situation puts tremendous political pressure on those that make the season frameworks to have the longest possible seasons with the highest possible daily bag limits. As the need for shorter seasons and lower bag limits becomes more obvious, those who depend on duck hunting for a living will get more creative about how to continue exploiting the resource and more desperate about implementing these “solutions”. Once again it is a condition that only has one possible outcome: the total decimation of waterfowl populations to the point no one can make a living helping themselves or others kill ducks.

    At best, losing of the ability to make a living related to duck hunting can only be delayed not prevented. Unfortunately, the cost of this delay is the loss of duck hunting as a sport.

    Duck hunting can only survive as a sport, not as a way of making a living.
    Last edited by Rubberhead*; 01-23-2020 at 08:53 PM.
    Ephesians 2 : 8-9



    Charles Barkley: Nobody doesn't like meat.

  6. #6
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    Just to show how bad it has become, I saw 2 guys from Charleston posting pics on FB with 4 muscovies they killed- said they tasted great.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Habit View Post
    Just to show how bad it has become, I saw 2 guys from Charleston posting pics on FB with 4 muscovies they killed- said they tasted great.
    PM me their spot...
    Ephesians 2 : 8-9



    Charles Barkley: Nobody doesn't like meat.

  8. #8
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    Ducks are valuable So people making a living off of something of value is not going to change. What does change is the way the thing of value is monetized. I want to see people continue to make money off of ducks because it is good for the ducks and local economies. We just may need to change the legal baiting situation we have now to only being legal in sc. If Strom was still alive he probably could get it done.

  9. #9
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    And yet conservation organizations have hunter recruiting programs

  10. #10
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    I love ducks and managing water.
    It's complex, some places have birds and some don't....I don't know why but speculate it's for one reason and one alone, pressure!
    Someone give the cliff notes on the videos?
    \"I never saw a wild thing feel sorry for itself. A small bird will drop dead frozen from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.\" <br />D.H. LAWRENCE

  11. #11
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    I had a long conversation with some folks that start hunting in Canada and hunt down two different flyways.
    Their opinion and mine is the harvest is alot higher than the USFWS thinks or there counts are way off or both.

    The days afield has been too many for too long. It's time for a 45 day season I remember 30 days and 3 ducks. With good nesting conditions, the duck numbers came roaring back.



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  12. #12
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    I want the season pushed back to Feb......
    \"I never saw a wild thing feel sorry for itself. A small bird will drop dead frozen from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.\" <br />D.H. LAWRENCE

  13. #13
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    I'm blown away. I and a friend shared camp in Kansas with 7 Cajun guys we'd never met in mid-December. They were hands down some of the best guys I'd ever met. We talked Clemson-LSU football, work, ducks, etc. Those guys cooked up supper and left us a pile of boudin and stuffed chickens to take home. Those guys in the video are the same guys.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecu1984 View Post
    Go Tigers!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calibogue View Post
    I love ducks and managing water.
    It's complex, some places have birds and some don't....I don't know why but speculate it's for one reason and one alone, pressure!
    Someone give the cliff notes on the videos?
    Cliff notes: Since the revision of the migratory bird treaty in 1998 the popularity of planting and flooding corn specifically for waterfowl has skyrocketed in the midwest states on private and federally funded lands. The food/energy per acre from flooded standing corn is much greater than any natural food or from harvested crop in normal agricultural practices. The units he used were Duck Use Days and for corn it's about 25k/acre vs 200/acre or less for harvested rice and flooded timber. (Flooding standing corn is not considered normal agricultural practice). Ducks are feeding nocturnally in all these massive flooded corn impoundments and resting all day in federal refuges. This has changed the behavior of ducks in that they cannot "eat out" all these flooded fields and therefore do not have a reason to keep moving south when in the past they had to or they would starve. This means southern states are seeing a large drop in duck numbers because ducks simply aren't migrating south unless there is such a weather event that multiple feet of snow is dumped to cover up all corn. These effects are compounded with imprinting and the behavior of ducks and future ducks has changed causing migrations to shift and be stopped short of past routes.

    He recognizes that there are other factors contributing to lack of migration but feels this is the only thing that can be changed easily/quickly with a law, the others have to do with mother nature and uncontrollable habitat loss.

    He wants purposefully flooded row crops to be considered baiting as this is not considered normal agricultural practice, because the crop is not intended to be harvested and flooding is not a normal practice prior to harvesting for row crops. Rice/timber etc. is fine to flood and hunt over as the Duck Use Days are not significant to impede migration or is normal agricultural practice.

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  15. #15
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    Wild to see people finally catching up to what we were saying on this website nearly 2 decades ago...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JABIII View Post
    Wild to see people finally catching up to what we were saying on this website nearly 2 decades ago...
    I was just not aware of the amount of acres being flooded in the north.

  17. #17
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    It hasn't even really gotten started yet. Wait until the North Dakotans figure out to harness all that wasted (and completely free) flare gas energy to keep and circulate warm water over flooded crops. $$$. Habitat Flats will go the way of South Carolina as we did when the Atlantic states above us started impounding corn and keeping water open...

  18. #18
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    And he’s absolutely correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbenn454 View Post
    Cliff notes: Since the revision of the migratory bird treaty in 1998 the popularity of planting and flooding corn specifically for waterfowl has skyrocketed in the midwest states on private and federally funded lands. The food/energy per acre from flooded standing corn is much greater than any natural food or from harvested crop in normal agricultural practices. The units he used were Duck Use Days and for corn it's about 25k/acre vs 200/acre or less for harvested rice and flooded timber. (Flooding standing corn is not considered normal agricultural practice). Ducks are feeding nocturnally in all these massive flooded corn impoundments and resting all day in federal refuges. This has changed the behavior of ducks in that they cannot "eat out" all these flooded fields and therefore do not have a reason to keep moving south when in the past they had to or they would starve. This means southern states are seeing a large drop in duck numbers because ducks simply aren't migrating south unless there is such a weather event that multiple feet of snow is dumped to cover up all corn. These effects are compounded with imprinting and the behavior of ducks and future ducks has changed causing migrations to shift and be stopped short of past routes.

    He recognizes that there are other factors contributing to lack of migration but feels this is the only thing that can be changed easily/quickly with a law, the others have to do with mother nature and uncontrollable habitat loss.

    He wants purposefully flooded row crops to be considered baiting as this is not considered normal agricultural practice, because the crop is not intended to be harvested and flooding is not a normal practice prior to harvesting for row crops. Rice/timber etc. is fine to flood and hunt over as the Duck Use Days are not significant to impede migration or is normal agricultural practice.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    Be proactive about improving public waterfowl habitat in South Carolina. It's not going to happen by itself, and our help is needed. We have the potential to winter thousands of waterfowl on public grounds if we fight for it.

  19. #19
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    Yup, food & February wood change things A LOT in SC.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbenn454 View Post
    the popularity of planting and flooding corn specifically for waterfowl has skyrocketed in the midwest states on private and federally funded lands.

    Yep and this is still a very expensive proposition. If the season drops to 45 days then many of these places drop out.

    Keep in mind that "businesses" that have a high fixed cost make all of their profits on the last few customers. For example if it takes the first 80% of customers to cover fixed cost and their variable costs then the remaining 20% of customers are responsible for creating 100% of the company's profits. If that business looses 10% of its customers it doesn't loose 10% of its profits it looses 50% of its profits. If that business looses 20% of their customers then they are basically running a charity.

    In other words, switching to a moderate season framework for all flyways, except maybe the Pacific, but that's another story, will start moving ducks again. Not to mention there will be less layering of seasons so the birds will be able to find a place to rest during their migrations.

    Just my 2¢.
    Ephesians 2 : 8-9



    Charles Barkley: Nobody doesn't like meat.

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