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Thread: Cat 1 WMA budget hearing

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strick9 View Post
    Duck, Wasn't the 9 for all the Cat 1s combined as to maintenance, repair, staffing, equip etc?

    I believe a 4 bird average would be an honest goal while providing cushion average to level the complete non shooting, non experienced vs the shooters and experienced.
    9 sounds like a solid number for the Upper Coastal Project


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  2. #22
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    There aren’t private duck clubs in that area that have a 4 bird average for the season boys

  3. #23
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    My point is the private impoundments have repaired their dikes and are back in business. Samworth is still in shambles and money is tied up in the procurement process. DNR must show a willingness to correct the problem and be willing to try planting some areas that are possible.

    There have been several of the old timers retire in recent years. They have a long standing pride and knowhow. Perhaps we can encourage one of them to get involved again.
    Either write things worth reading, or do things worth writing.

  4. #24
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    Private landowners who own coastal impoundments have the cash to rebuild quickly. I seriously doubt that a state agency could accumulate a couple million for a rainy day fund without the legislature raiding that pot of money or withholding budget funds. So what are they supposed to rebuild with?

    I’ve been using the cat one WMAs for 20 years now and while I wish I could get drawn every year I understand why I can’t. I e had more good experiences than poor ones. I went on one of the more desirable ones this year and killed a full strap some relatively sought after ducks for the bargain price of $80. I had experienced staff point me in the right direction, check in on me at 9 and they had coffee and snacks before the hunt and you don’t even tip these guys. It’s just $80.

    Now i do you think they could add a couple spots and increase the number of parties hunting and reduce the wait time but that’s my only complaint.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck Tape View Post
    My point is the private impoundments have repaired their dikes and are back in business. Samworth is still in shambles and money is tied up in the procurement process. DNR must show a willingness to correct the problem and be willing to try planting some areas that are possible.

    There have been several of the old timers retire in recent years. They have a long standing pride and knowhow. Perhaps we can encourage one of them to get involved again.
    If things are tied up in procurement maybe the rules that state has to play by are the problem. A private guy can hire someone the next day. I doubt the state can contract with someone without making sure there are no minority-owned drag line operations somewhere in the southeast. Can you guys change the rules process for these situations?

  6. #26
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    We are considering a proviso to deal with it. A million has been appropriated for years and is still caught up in procurement.


    Why can't staff jump on repairs immediately? We bought them trackhoes. Big deal if no material is available within reach. Make a collar dam just like a beaver does when you install a pipe to drain the swamp. Move dirt three times with the hoe to reach good material. Put it on a barge and float it to the breach. Just do it.

    The beaver does not eat unless he repairs the dam.
    Either write things worth reading, or do things worth writing.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck Tape View Post
    We are considering a proviso to deal with it. A million has been appropriated for years and is still caught up in procurement.


    Why can't staff jump on repairs immediately? We bought them trackhoes. Big deal if no material is available within reach. Make a collar dam just like a beaver does when you install a pipe to drain the swamp. Move dirt three times with the hoe to reach good material. Put it on a barge and float it to the breach. Just do it.

    The beaver does not eat unless he repairs the dam.
    Well said. The word "Can't" shouldn't ever be uttered by SCDNR management.....

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck Tape View Post
    We are considering a proviso to deal with it. A million has been appropriated for years and is still caught up in procurement.


    Why can't staff jump on repairs immediately? We bought them trackhoes. Big deal if no material is available within reach. Make a collar dam just like a beaver does when you install a pipe to drain the swamp. Move dirt three times with the hoe to reach good material. Put it on a barge and float it to the breach. Just do it.

    The beaver does not eat unless he repairs the dam.

    There is probably a reason a beaver doesn't build dams on the edge of a tidal river though.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBtflo View Post
    There is probably a reason a beaver doesn't build dams on the edge of a tidal river though.
    I have no doubt the dike material and working conditions are poor. Somehow they managed to do it 150 years ago. Technology has improved.
    Last edited by Duck Tape; 01-19-2020 at 01:39 PM.
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  10. #30
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    Good job DT.

    If DNR can’t manage what they have, then liquidate some of the hundred properties they can’t manage, and use the monies from the sales as a management budget for the top 5.

    Take remaining monies and revitalize Cat2 WMAs.

    At any point over the past 20 years, Potato Creek Hatchery could’ve been drained, killed the carp, and replanted beneficial SAV.

    At any point over the last 20 years, Hatchery WMA could’ve had concrete rubble added annually to begin to close the breaches to prevent carp from entering.

    At any point over the last 20 years, the ponds on Santee Cooper WMA could’ve been stocked with beneficial SAV.

    At any point over the last 20 years,.........


    But no, DNR stands around with their dicks in their hands, ready with a quick-dish excuse as to why nothing can be done on any topic you choose to bring to them.
    Be proactive about improving public waterfowl habitat in South Carolina. It's not going to happen by itself, and our help is needed. We have the potential to winter thousands of waterfowl on public grounds if we fight for it.

  11. #31
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    I'm ashamed to say I just saw this thread for the first time, or else I would have made all efforts to be in attendance.

    One thought... Why are we using hunter harvest to justify these lands? Is it not about sheer opportunity? I mean, novice and youth hunters can go, skybust, waste shells and educate birds, but that's his right to be an idiot or simply to gain experience. The point is, he/she got to go.

    Why do we have to justify use our own public lands by showing harvest results. Maybe my logic is way off, but number of birds killed should be a moot point. The main focus, in my mind, should be 'X' number of hunters had their opportunity to get utility from lands that their duck stamp money and taxes go to support/maintain.
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    Delta in a nutshell: Breeding grounds + small wetlands + big blocks of grass cover + predator removal + nesting structures + enough money to do the job= plenty of ducks to keep everyone smiling!

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  12. #32
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    Harvest numbers are truly the only gauge to use as to ducks and duck preference to a property. Now if we step back to around 2004 there were reports done on wintering waterfowl numbers, that coule be another.

    Hunter fun, satisfaction, enjoyment , nah I will pass on "Sally got drawn, said the staff was pleasant and had a great time watching cormorants eat mullet.

    And honestly harvest number or success per hunter effort is a solid criteria to meet or else you have worse than we do now. Everyone who attended heard that the reason for the low numbers on certain property was that folks couldn't shoot. That made me come home and look at shots fired.. Caught again. When shots fired are low that speaks volumes as to duck numbers knowing you rubberheads !

    Something has to change for the better as it seems the words can't, crop loss , floods etc are the scape goat while private land guy ( which having seen the budgets does more with far less) conquers and overcomes and then kills ducks.

    Just an fyi for experienced guy that has had a great hunt there is one or two experienced guys that have had a crap hunt. I served as legal proxy for a guy who was litterally dropped off into a field with 0 water just this past Tuesday.

    I believe that the SCDNR "can'ts" and "pity us" comes from their desire to just give the whole shabang to Du to manage. There has certainly been a paradigm shift from staff composed of rought tough, common sense dirt necked farmers and ag fellas to more wildlifer type staffing in many cases. I know some of those Ag style guys still on the inside of our CAT 1s and some of the stories I hear are just mind boggling.

    Lets change the atmosphere and aggressively put ducks first on CAT 1s and then focus on 2s.

    Water under a ducks but and food in the water = problem solved.
    Last edited by Strick9; 01-19-2020 at 04:41 PM.
    Genesis 9;2

  13. #33
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    From what I’ve seen, they have the equipment. What they seem to be lacking is employees that can and will do the work. I know they have to be given the go ahead from higher ups but half of the staff on these state managed properties look like they’ve never operated a riding lawn mower much less heavy equipment. If you don’t have a 3 day old beard and a farmers tan, you shouldn’t be hired to do this kind of work.

  14. #34
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    Would an experienced heavy machine operator work for a techs salary? Serious question.


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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigtimber2 View Post
    Would an experienced heavy machine operator work for a techs salary? Serious question.


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    Heck no! And there in lies the problem!


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    Conservation means the wise use of the earth and its resources for the lasting good of men. -Gifford Pinchot

    The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it. -Thomas Jefferson


    The very existence of flame-throwers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.

  16. #36
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    Thanks DT and y'all

  17. #37
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    Selling Belfast and Jocassee Gorges would be a good start...

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strick9 View Post
    Harvest numbers are truly the only gauge to use as to ducks and duck preference to a property. Now if we step back to around 2004 there were reports done on wintering waterfowl numbers, that coule be another.

    Hunter fun, satisfaction, enjoyment , nah I will pass on "Sally got drawn, said the staff was pleasant and had a great time watching cormorants eat mullet.

    And honestly harvest number or success per hunter effort is a solid criteria to meet or else you have worse than we do now. Everyone who attended heard that the reason for the low numbers on certain property was that folks couldn't shoot. That made me come home and look at shots fired.. Caught again. When shots fired are low that speaks volumes as to duck numbers knowing you rubberheads !

    Something has to change for the better as it seems the words can't, crop loss , floods etc are the scape goat while private land guy ( which having seen the budgets does more with far less) conquers and overcomes and then kills ducks.

    Just an fyi for experienced guy that has had a great hunt there is one or two experienced guys that have had a crap hunt. I served as legal proxy for a guy who was litterally dropped off into a field with 0 water just this past Tuesday.

    I believe that the SCDNR "can'ts" and "pity us" comes from their desire to just give the whole shabang to Du to manage. There has certainly been a paradigm shift from staff composed of rought tough, common sense dirt necked farmers and ag fellas to more wildlifer type staffing in many cases. I know some of those Ag style guys still on the inside of our CAT 1s and some of the stories I hear are just mind boggling.

    Lets change the atmosphere and aggressively put ducks first on CAT 1s and then focus on 2s.

    Water under a ducks but and food in the water = problem solved.

    I’m not surprised to hear that fingers were pointed at those who can’t hit the broad side of a barn; I hunted Bear two years ago now and one group shot 3 boxes with not a single bird harvested. We managed a decent hunt. Another guy (that knows what he was doing) hand picked drakes. I overheard the guys that didn’t land any birds make a comment to a technician about there “not being many birds around,” and the tech was quick to snap back about “not being able to control if someone is a poor shot.”

    Since then I have believed they are basing success off “shots fired per hunter” as much or more so than “birds per hunter” because if I witnessed such an inconsistency on one hunt at Bear, surely that scenario plays itself out more often than not across Cat 1 hunts throughout the season. Not giving them a pass here, but hearing the attitude a few heybo’s were throwing at them knowing that another guy was taking his pick at birds has to leave the powers that be feeling like they held up their end of the bargain.

    I think Bog hit the nail on the head (like usual). Dial back the poorly managed, sell off if needed and redirect those funds to the potential goldmines we are sitting on. And please for the love of God, step up a SAV initiative on one of the greatest lake systems in the nation.

    Living in Columbia for the flood of 15, to then see firsthand what Matthew and Irma did to the coast, combined with a record breaking warm winter of 18-19 with a now incredibly warm 19-20 season, I think we need to all take a long hard look at the big picture here. There’s only so much we can control, but I appreciate you guys for stepping up and seeking real solutions instead of harping on the same problems we are all aware of.

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    Last edited by duckhunt4fun; 01-19-2020 at 06:06 PM.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by JABIII View Post
    Selling Belfast and Jocassee Gorges would be a good start...
    So we can have the Cliffs at Jocassee? Might as well put in the interstate from Ohio to the upstate while you are at it.

  20. #40
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    Duck Tape- why don’t you go out there and see for yourself and see what they are dealing with, instead of pontificating about beavers and technology?
    BTW- they have some great young guys out there running equipment and running hunts. I have yet to hear one complain about no being able to do something, unless it’s Something completely out of their hands.

    If you’ve never seen the ocean, don’t describe to me what standing in the Atlantic Ocean feels like.

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