I’ve seen some SC boys exploit some Sonora Mx lagunas with no remorse
I’ve seen some SC boys exploit some Sonora Mx lagunas with no remorse
Last edited by Palmetto Pride; 01-08-2020 at 10:04 PM.
“The price of freedom is eternal vigilance” - Thomas Jefferson
Pressure is a viable argument to the issue presented by the OP, but having 100 hunters not seeing ducks or 10,000 hunters not seeing ducks, both lend the question of where did the ducks go? Pressure would seem to have an impact if thousands of hunters were walking out every weekend with a limit of ducks, but thousands of hunters walking out with one duck a piece lends the question of whether there’s a pressure problem, or a conservation problem. I suppose they are related in some fashion.
My grammar sucked ....
I’m still jealous of your banded widgeon
“The price of freedom is eternal vigilance” - Thomas Jefferson
Large tracts of privately owned ground that are managed properly with large rest areas are making it tough on the guy that hunts public ground for sure. Pressure. Absolutely. Duck hunting is a very social sport and has gotten very popular with the younger generation. You’ve got to work hard to get on ducks. Some enjoy that aspect of it. As far as Sc hunters exploiting other states....I see it happen....all the time. Only answer I’ve got is that we hear stories from our dads and granddads about how incredible the duck hunting used to be here. They give it a go and struggle and branch out to find success. It’s also impossible to get people to stay quiet about shit anymore. They get more out of boasting about it than the actual experience. Instant gratification has killed a lot of good things.
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Are those in charge of the conservation groups spending most of their time with the commercial outfits and therefore catering more to the human desires than the resourse they are committed to protecting?
“Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves.” Lord Byron
Pressure, numbers of bird, weather, lakes with little to no food, habitat loss, pen raised birds, genetics, bird diseases, private property, refuges improper care....... Seems that we donate money and give money to the wrong organizations. I do not know of many that are fighting to keep native veg in our lakes other than CWS, maybe its about time to start ramping up our efforts and push harder. Maybe those that have the chance should start moving to planting rice back at the coast. Maybe just maybe if our refuges are rotated and taken care properly we would see better results. Maybe if we took politicians out of the descision making process we can return some birds to this state. I know weather as something to do with it but we can do better and we need to because it does not matter what you think the issue is the point is that there is an issue and those that spend weekends shooting pen raised birds will never change there minds about have to manage a resource that belongs to the public.
“Duck hunting gives a man a chance to see the loneliest places …blinds washed by a rolling surf, blue and gold autumn marshes, …a rice field in the rain, flooded pin-oak forests or any remote river delta. In duck hunting the scene is as important as the shooting.” ~ Erwin Bauer, The Duck Hunter’s Bible, 1965
One theory I have thought about over the past few years is sort of a Darwinism approach (although there are likely hundreds of factors at play. Weather and habitat being two most important). The ducks that tend to migrate more/farther are more likely to be killed. The ducks that hold tight in the North and wait out hunting seasons are less likely to be killed.
Year after year I would presume that the ducks that migrate more/farther would dwindle and the ducks that do not migrate as much have a higher survival rate and therefore higher reproduction rate. When the ducks less likely to migrate reproduce, their offspring follow this same pattern and so on.
Again, there are many different factors at play but this is something that I have thought about for a while and never really seen it discussed anywhere so I thought I would share it with the fine gentlemen on this forum.
interesting, for sure
I havent read it all but why do we not "trust" DU?
and who said the numbers were down?
Its hard to have a discussion about this without FACTS. We should all sit down and decide what we will consider as FACT and go from there.
for instance....IF duck numbers are down, why?
IF duck numbers are the same, what is the harvest?
IF harvest is down, why?
We have to watch as the discussion takes a turn based on incorrect data. I agree with PP about talking to people that have kept a journal for years rather than someone who just cant seem to kill a duck any more.
Year to year, I feel pretty comfortable knowing what MY ducks do and why. Granted, I still have trouble believing the "there is so much water, the wood ducks are eating acorns" debate every winter....
Ugh. Stupid people piss me off.
Magnetic pole shifting towards Russia.
For the folks that are keeping journals you could still argue what Chasbeau mentioned. Ducks are adjusting to pressure and habitat for sure.
I hunted in Arkansas 8 years or so ago with some locals who kept up with numbers etc. They knew things shifted and had an idea where too.
I know its just not one thing, it’s multiple and I couldn’t tell you which those are but things are a changing, we can all agree on that. Hurricanes have hurt a lot of coastal habitat the last couple of years, which I’ve seen first hand. For SC, think of how many more corn ponds there are now compared to 10 years ago, all the way up to VA. On top of that, beaver ponds have popped up everywhere. Take a plane ride in January and it would shock you how many people have impoundments. The numbers these small habitats hold add up to a lot. And they don’t freeze up anymore, so a ducks got everything he needs, why would he migrate further. No different than your dove field loading up after deer season closes and all the corn piles go away.
2th - my journal over the past 4 years indicates a shift in species using the local bodies of waters that I frequent. I'm not the best to judge but am incredibly interested in this topic. I wish I could be in the field more frequently to really study the variables and help with a hypothesis but I am certain for my neck of the woods we are seeing different species more frequently than we did 5 - 8 years ago. These insanely mild winters are not helping with my observations. But why is it that Pea Island is wintering 10,000 redheads right now and a couple thousand pintails but no other species. Those are the only consistent migrators despite weather the past few years. That is a very intriguing question to me. Is it simply imprinting and imprinting alone. I know JAB likely has an opinion on that. It's just fascinating to me that certain species of waterfowl are responding differently to whatever it is weather, habitat, pressure, etc.
public or private?
similar bag numbers but differing species?
we all know weather is a factor in migration....but deciding on the actual duck numbers will be a chore.
and what buckpro said about the multitude of impoundments. are the 10000 ducks still here but in ten different impoundments?
its really really hard to get a hold on that....
Ugh. Stupid people piss me off.
I know we do state counts on refuges in both SC and NC but it would be fantastic if we could get some of the large private tracts to voluntarily include their wintering numbers into the counts so we could be begin to pattern some more factors. Maybe they do already but I would think we could begin sorting things out like food and rest areas vs. ill managed public refuges and determine whats a driving force for us locally with the birds we do have.
It would be interesting to see a study on the Canadian harvest numbers over time as more and more hunters have flocked to Canada for a weeks vacation of easy limits. When I was young there was only one or two people per county doing it.
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We need a young energetic PHD candidate to choose this as their thesis. They can tap into the brain trust of SCDucks for references and then report back on their findings. In all seriousness it would be cool if one of our young students chose this as a topic to look into specifically for eastern migration patterns.
It kind of like the lake for instance, everyone says the numbers are nothing near where they used to be, habitat is gone, etc. While the mallards might not be there like they were, they are still imprinted to the area, they are just on the 4700 impoundments that surround the lake.
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