Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 32

Thread: I think I prefer hams...

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    The Wild, Wild West
    Posts
    3,490

    Default I think I prefer hams...

    So, after reading the “sick” thread below, I’ve decided it’s time to discuss something about kill shots that I wanted to post last November but didn’t want to deal with the grief I know is going to come my way; I still don’t want to deal with that grief, but it’s important enough to discuss that I’ll deal with it.

    I’ve killed plenty of deer with stick and string, and I’ve made some poor shots over the years. Of the poor shots I’ve made, the only ones that did not result in me recovering the animals were ones (2) that hit solid bone in the front shoulder and one single lung shot where the deer spun hard and the arrow exited the brisket. On that deer, I had 100 yards of heavy pink frothy blood, a bed of pink frothy blood with what appeared to be a hunk of lung tissue, followed by a petering trail that disappeared once the deer stopped going downhill and hit level ground. All these deer were looked for for days and then buzzard patrol was performed. I lost one deer that I shot low and back, but I’m sure I would have been able to find him if it were not for a 15 minute, 2”/hour gullywasher that hit moments after I had my blood saturated arrow in hand. I’m not counting that one, because the way he was walking out of there and into the thickest giant briar canyon I’ve ever seen with his ass end swaying makes me know I could have stayed on his blood trail and found him had there been any blood trail to follow. Regardless...

    I’ve made three other bad shots on deer. Two were deer hard quartering away, and I attempted to slip the shot in just behind the ribs which would have resulted in an exit in front of the opposite shoulder. I pulled both shots two inches right, and both times, I shot the deer in the ham close to the bunghole. Both times, the deer hunched up, walked slowly away, and fell over stone dead within 80 yards. The third bad shot was a result of my limb saver having slid up to where it was interfering with my top cam rotation. I lost three arrows in different misses on a target afterward trying to figure out what the hell was going on. On the deer, however, I shot 2.5’ to 3’ right and several incheshigh and nailed a big 10pt in the top middle of his ham. I stunned he’s spinal cord with the shot, and it was well above the femoral artery. The deer went down, but after 5 minutes, he got up and slowly walked off and bedded down. I jumped him trying to get a finishing shot in him, and he just walked off 75 yards and needed again. I found him there dead the next morning after deciding to leave him overnight.

    I’ve heard or read hundreds of stories much the same...bad shot resulted in a ham hit...and ever single time the story ends with, “he didn’t make it 50 yards.” I’ve yet to hear or read where someone shot a deer square in the ham and lost the deer.

    So, those first bad shots are not the only deer I’ve failed to recover. I’ve lost a couple of deer that were absolute “money” shots...I thought. Maybe I shot high and over the spine...maybe I shot just a tad behind where I thought? But the deer were hit and not found nonetheless. How man threads do you read about the hunter making a seemingly great shot just behind the shoulder only to never find the deer? I’m not saying that a double lunger or heart/lung isn’t going to die...I’m saying that the chest drops fastest and farthest and there is less room for error there than people think.

    So, all of the stories about ham shots that all end in “he dead,” are not hitting the femoral artery; it’s a big artery, no doubt, but it’s way, way too small for all of these people to have hit it. I know on at least one of my deer that I did not hit it. My theory is this...the majority of a deer’s cardiac output goes to the Hams, which do nearly 100% of the work of propulsion. When a sharp broadhead cuts through those muscles, the deer is going to bleed to death if coagulation doesn’t stop the bleeding...and unless the deer lays down and doesn’t try to walk or run away, the blood is going to continue to flow with the continual movement of the wound channel and the increased cardiac output that walking/running requires. If you aim dead center of the ham on a broadside shot and pull it three inches either direction, you still get massive tissue damage and hemorrhage. If you miss 5 inches in either direction, you get a clean miss on one and you get a shot just in front of the ham in the posterior abdomen...where the aorta runs and splits to each femoral artery and where the renal arteries and arteries that feed the gut branch off the aorta...but that is a five inch miss. If you miss five inches or more low or to either side...then you need to practice more before hunting anymore with a bow. So...dead center ham, you have a seriously big margin for error with no bony projections to get in the way.

    I’ve thought about making that my main kill shot for a season to test my theory, but I’ve never gone through with it. Last year in Ohio, I was there for 2 weeks, and except for the first 24 hours, there was rain in the forecast off and on every day of my trip. Some days it poured, and I stayed in. The best I had was a rain-free morning or afternoon hunt that was followed by rain showers within 4-6 hours max. I discussed losing that big buck after the rainstorm with my bud, and worried that with any deer I shot that didn’t just do the death run and crash, I would possibly end up in the same situation. Then I half jokingly said...” deer shot in the hip or ass don’t go far and generally die quickly.

    That afternoon, I had a doe slip in from behind me and walk straight under my stand. She started walking away from me, and I could tell she was going to take the well beaten trail that kept her pointing away and giving me a hard quartering away shot at best. I was zeroing in on that last rib when I remembered my discussion with Travis. I figured a shot at the hip with slight left miss would be perfect double lung/liver/heart kill, and a slight pull to the right would be the deadly Texas lung shot. At ten yards, I focused on a spot dead center of her left ham with her quartering away hard left, Drew till I touched my anchor point, and let a perfect shot fly. I was using a two blade 160 fr Zwicky on a Douglas fir shaft out of a 54 lb longbow. She lunges forward, and trotted about ten yards before returning to a slow steady walk. I waited ten minutes and started tracking. I followed a good blood trail...not rage double lung good, but plenty good and easy to follow...for 60 yards where she was piled up dead. I had cut through her ham and my broadhead entered her peritoneal cavity just behind the intestines. I did not hit the femoral artery, yet she bled out within 60 yards and within a couple of minutes max after the shot.

    So....anyone on here ever shot one in the hip/ass...not just grazing it...and failed to recover the deer? I’ve asked this question on Archery Talk snd have never received, that I can recall, an answer of yes. I have, however, received a ton of stories where the deer was shot in ham and died quickly. All of this is anecdotal and there has been no true research done, but the anecdotal evidence is overwhelming regarding the lethality if ham shots vs thoracic cavity shots. If this is indeed true, which I truly believe it is, then how would y’all feel about taking this shot as your primary kill shot on deer ranging from broadside to hard quartering away to straight away? How would y’all feel making it your secondary kill shot if you had it open and a shot to the typical thoracic kill zone was not available due to obstruction?

    Thanks.
    Last edited by WhitewaterDuck; 10-17-2019 at 02:15 PM.
    “I can’t wait ‘till I’m grown” is the stupidest @!#* I ever said!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    8,197

    Default

    I had a buddy who developed a reputation over a few seasons of poor shots resulting in hits to the hams of animals. He recovered all of them. Not much left for meat though and that is reason enough for me to stick with a heart/lung shot or neck shot if the stars align.
    "This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you." John 15:12

    "Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord." Hebrews 12:14

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    472

    Default

    The 4th deer that I killed with my bow was shot in her left ham. She was quartered away from me and I pulled the shot. It was colder than hell and I never really practiced shooting my bow with that many layers on. I just knew that I wouldn’t recover her. I gave her 2 hours before I went to track her and she didn’t make it far at all maybe 80 yards. She was already kinda stiff when I got to her so she died quick.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Clarendon County
    Posts
    8,400

    Default

    I rifle shot thru both hips results in a dead animal usually in their present location, I can tell you that. Seen it a couple times, though I've never attempted it myself. Santee11 killed one of the biggest bucks I've ever seen just that way...on purpose. It kills em dead.

    I'd be a little more apprehensive doing so with a Bow and Arrow.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Horry, SC
    Posts
    5,516

    Default

    I had an arrow deflect off a limb years ago and hit a buck in the ham and exited out his nuts. He was only 3 yards from the base of the tree so it was shooting straight down at him. He ran 50 yards and fell over dead and lost more blood than any other deer I’ve shot. I would never take that shot on purpose though.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Greenville
    Posts
    4,803

    Default

    I made a horrible shot on a doe with a .44 and hit her square through the hips. She dropped on the spot and was dead shortly thereafter.
    Carolina Counsel

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Knoxville, TN/Bryson City, NC
    Posts
    1,154

    Default

    I had an arrow deflect off a twig on a beautiful broadside shot many years ago and I ended up hitting a solid FMNF 8 pt. square in the ham. He piled up within 45 yards and the amount of blood on the trail was the most I’ve ever seen
    "some men are mere hunters, others are turkey hunters"-Archibald Rutledge

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Charleston
    Posts
    2,618

    Default

    The biggest buck I shot I jumped up slipping between spots. I attempted a Texas heart shot as he ran down the road away from me. .270 130 grain went right through his left ham. All I found was a bit of hair and bone. Went back to the shed and drank some bourbon to calm down. Gave him a good hour, but he kept getting up and moving as we tracked him on a heavy blood trail. Shot him around 7:30 a.m. and found him at 3:00 that afternoon still warm and limp. About an hour before I found him, the blood trail dried up. That was a dejected and agonizing hour walking around with my dog. I saw the tiniest blood spot on a road and there he laid not 30 yards off the road bled out.

    https://scducks.com/forum/showthread...hat%27ll+score
    DILLIGAF

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Darlington
    Posts
    3,969

    Default

    I pulled a shot once on quartering away resulting in entry into ham, recovered bullet under skin on opposite side ribs. Young buck made it about 20 feet.
    Tyler Simmons wasn’t offsides. 1-9-2018
    Isaiah Bond didn’t catch the ball. 12-2-2023

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    The Wild, Wild West
    Posts
    3,490

    Default

    Bullets (rifle) primarily kill due to hydrostatic shock then bleeding is a plus from all the blown up and damaged vessels. Arrows kill primarily due to acute blood loss. Of course both can cause other issues that will kill, but when the shot is fired, those are the primary goals. I’d much rather see a dood come in the ED and OR with big ass bullet holes in him than a good sized knife wound...knife to the thorax is just deadly. Anyway, I will shoot a deer in the hips broadside with a rifle if it’s the only kill shot I have, because it’ll break them down...same with Texas lung shot, but If I can shoot them front chest/base of neck broadside, that would be choice 1 with a rifle...it’s going kill them. Bow, however...since my goal is to cut and cause massive bleeding and quickest kill, I can’t think of why the ham shouldn’t be the first choice. I’ve double lunged and heart shot a pile of deer with my bow...one stood looking like he didn’t know what happened and fell over twenty seconds later, but all the others left at Mach 3 and made it at least 70 yards and sometimes several hundred before crashing. Deer shot with an arrow in the hip die just as quickly or quicker with the advantage that they do not run off fast and thus do not usually get out of sight before dying. Just a bonus if rain is expected, or you happen to be hunting in the rain. I’ve been just like most who have this happen...”it killed them quick and he bled more than any deer I’ve ever shot, but I’d never take that shot on purpose.” Then I started thinking, “why not?” Do I think it’s more painful? I’m not screwing up the meat with a broadhead.! I just can’t find a good reason to go with the “don’t take the shot on purpose” mentality.
    “I can’t wait ‘till I’m grown” is the stupidest @!#* I ever said!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    GreenHood
    Posts
    13,833

    Default

    interesting thread, until now I've never even thought about shooting a deer in the hams
    Houndsmen are born, not made

    Quote Originally Posted by 2thDoc View Post
    I STAND WITH DUCK CUTTER!
    Quote Originally Posted by JABIII View Post
    I knew it wasn't real because no dogbox...

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Columbia / Fuquay NC
    Posts
    3,211

    Default

    How much meat are you loosing on these ham shots?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,416

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scmoose View Post
    How much meat are you loosing on these ham shots?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I would imagine a bow would cause less meat loss than the energy impact from a bullet. I could be wrong though

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    The Wild, Wild West
    Posts
    3,490

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scmoose View Post
    How much meat are you loosing on these ham shots?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Minimal with a bow. It cuts a 1.25 ish “ wound channel
    Through the big cuts of meat. There is bloody/bruised meat right there, but I don’t think it’s any different than cutting the meat with a knife when butchering...it just bleeds more. I’m no expert on butchering specific cuts off the hind quarter anyway, so I do what I usually do and one of the roasts will have a hole through it or I just cut it there. I ice my meat down for several days draining off the blood water, and by the time I cut it up and pack it in freezer paper, the bloody/bruised meat is not much different looking than any of the other meat...sometimes no different.
    “I can’t wait ‘till I’m grown” is the stupidest @!#* I ever said!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    28,018

    Default

    sitting in the morning, I will now be looking for a good 'ham shot" with the .270

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    The Wild, Wild West
    Posts
    3,490

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ecu1984 View Post
    sitting in the morning, I will now be looking for a good 'ham shot" with the .270
    Wait...I’m starting to feel responsible for an upcoming mess!
    “I can’t wait ‘till I’m grown” is the stupidest @!#* I ever said!

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Banks of the Wateree
    Posts
    41,927

    Default

    I wouldn't worry..if somebody's got a rifle in their hands, and they're not pinning a deer's shoulder then they're just acting needy.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    2,613

    Default

    Hams are built for steaks. Shoulders are built for roasts. Gun or bow, I shoot for lungs (love a fresh heart tossed in s+p and seared in lard).
    Last edited by CurLee; 10-17-2019 at 07:34 PM. Reason: Typo

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    spartanburg
    Posts
    4,437

    Default

    Use to be known in the circles that if shot one in the ass with a POD he wouldn't go far!
    Low country redneck who moved north

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Gulf Coast of Alabama
    Posts
    4,592

    Default

    ^ I always go for the double lung as my primary. Gun or bow

    But this is interesting ...

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •