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Thread: "Sometimes science loses"

  1. #1
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    Default "Sometimes science loses"

    ‘Sometimes science loses’: SC legislature ignores science and research | Opinion
    BY SKIP STILL SPECIAL TO THE ISLAND PACKET AND THE BEAUFORT GAZETTE
    JUNE 07, 2019 07:57 AM, UPDATED JUNE 07, 2019 07:57 AM

    (Editor’s note: The following was signed by Skip Still, David Baumann, Steve Bennett, Billy Fleming and Robert Gooding, all retired wildlife biologists with master’s degrees and combined experience of more than 160 years in South Carolina.)

    The South Carolina Legislature continues to ignore the best available scientific information and the recommendations of natural resource management professionals when setting seasons and bag limits for wild turkeys, the South Carolina state wild game bird.

    This was done despite the fact that wild turkey populations have been steadily declining in recent years in South Carolina.

    In 2015, the legislature enacted Act 41 that set the statewide spring turkey season from March 20 to May 5. Previously, the season began on April 1 except on private land in 12 Lowcountry counties, which opened March 15.

    A group of conservation professionals and turkey hunters expressed concern and the legislature mandated that the South Carolina Department of Natural Resources conduct a research study to determine optimal season dates. It was understood that research results would be used to help define future regulations regarding turkeys.

    The research was successfully conducted from 2015-2018 by SCDNR staff and a prominent turkey researcher from Louisiana State University. The study compiled turkey harvest data, nesting and gobbling chronology, and hunter information. The best techniques and cutting-edge technology available were used.

    Results were presented to the legislature, indicating the spring season should not open prior to April 9, the average date of nest initiation. The findings of SCDNR and LSU researchers were backed up by the Southeastern Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies (SEAFWA), made up of 15 southeastern states plus Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands.

    SEAFWA conducted an extensive literature review and recommended, in 2016, that spring turkey season opening dates should coincide with average date of initial egg laying.

    In 2019, the legislature ignored these recommendations and the results of the research, passing a bill that allows turkey hunting in the lower state from March 22 through April 30 and in the upper state from April 1 through May 10. Only one gobbler can be taken during the first 10 days of the season.

    During the hearings, some legislators attempted to question the results of the research, despite the fact that natural resource management professionals strongly supported the results of the research.

    Attempts to discredit the research were without substantial merit and were based on the individual wishes of select legislators. One legislative member who supported the 2019 legislation even bragged after the bill had passed that — “sometimes science loses.”

    This is not the first instance of the state legislature ignoring the recommendations of DNR’s wildlife professionals and the science they employ and provide.

    One such instance occurred when a legislator, representing a Piedmont county, introduced a bill to allow baiting for deer in the Piedmont counties. SCDNR had conducted a study demonstrating that baiting deer actually resulted in a decreased likelihood of killing a deer, despite what the legislators and many hunters believed. Additionally, deer baiting is implicated in the spread of various parasites and diseases, including chronic wasting disease, a disease that is potentially devastating to deer populations.

    Despite data provided by SCDNR, and over strong objections by the agency, a bill allowing baiting for deer in the Piedmont was enacted.

    So once again, as a legislator said about the turkey bill, science lost.

    But, it wasn’t just science that lost. It was the resource and ultimately the people of South Carolina who lose when natural resource professionals are ignored.

    The underlying issue runs much deeper than turkeys.

    South Carolina is one of only a few states where natural resource management is controlled by the legislature. In the vast majority of other states, natural resource management is controlled by a governing board within each state’s natural resource agency, reducing political intrusions into resource management.

    Do South Carolinians want to continue with a system of natural resource management where science and professional judgment is often ignored and a system of legislative power, constituent favors, and votes is maintained?

  2. #2
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    All you need to read are the last 2 paragraphs. Question is, how do we change the system?

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    Quote Originally Posted by triplebeard View Post
    All you need to read are the last 2 paragraphs. Question is, how do we change the system?
    Yep...This ^

    And I'm not trying to get into the turkey bill debate specifically. The last two sentences there are what I am interested in for a variety of reasons.

  4. #4
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    There is a famous saying among legislators. "If it has fins, fur or feathers, don't F with it". Yet, they continually F with it. Why don't they turn it over to the biologists where it belongs?

    I've pissed up this rope enough.
    Them that don't know him won't like him, and them that do sometimes won't know how to take him

    He ain't wrong, he's just different, and his pride won't let him do things to make you think he's right

    They don't put Championship rings on smooth hands

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    But I read on here that this was a bad thing. Not because it tried to make a compromise. Oh no, the season only allowed for 1 bird in the first ten days.

    They (The researchers) wanted to close the season. The legislature made a compromise.
    Yup, he's crazy...


    like a fox. The dude may be coming in a little too hard and crazy but 90% of everything he says is correct.

    Sort of like Toof. But way smarter.
    ~Scatter Shot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentweapon338 View Post
    But I read on here that this was a bad thing. Not because it tried to make a compromise. Oh no, the season only allowed for 1 bird in the first ten days.

    They (The researchers) wanted to close the season. The legislature made a compromise.
    Who wanted to close the season??? No research I read suggested that.

    It needs to be turned over to the Biologists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentweapon338 View Post
    But I read on here that this was a bad thing. Not because it tried to make a compromise. Oh no, the season only allowed for 1 bird in the first ten days.

    They (The researchers) wanted to close the season. The legislature made a compromise.
    What "we" got is a vast improvement over what "we" had. However, for "them" to give the 75% of the state that has the biggest problem 50% more opportunity 3 years ago is probably the dumbest move in the history of dumb.

    I'm going to manage my properties the way I see fit, and there may be one longbeard left in SC in 20 years, but he will be on my property.
    Them that don't know him won't like him, and them that do sometimes won't know how to take him

    He ain't wrong, he's just different, and his pride won't let him do things to make you think he's right

    They don't put Championship rings on smooth hands

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by trkykilr View Post
    I'm going to manage my properties the way I see fit, and there may be one longbeard left in SC in 20 years, but he will be on my property.
    Same here.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #9
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    Kinda like what was said above...I'm my own Game Biologist and I'm doing a damn site better job than the General Assembly is................

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PharmHunter View Post
    Yep...This ^

    And I'm not trying to get into the turkey bill debate specifically. The last two sentences there are what I am interested in for a variety of reasons.
    Quote Originally Posted by trkykilr View Post
    There is a famous saying among legislators. "If it has fins, fur or feathers, don't F with it". Yet, they continually F with it. Why don't they turn it over to the biologists where it belongs?

    I've pissed up this rope enough.
    This and this.

    When I asked DT last time he said he was concerned about the liberals tendencies of biologist. But hey I've got Jim ******* representing me and voting on game laws. What could go wrong?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PharmHunter View Post
    Who wanted to close the season??? No research I read suggested that.

    It needs to be turned over to the Biologists.
    They went from a April 1-30 season. 30 days. With tags that had to be checked in at a check in station. Only 2 of the 5 tags could be harvested in your county of residence.

    Then they did away with tag stations. That was mistake one.

    But then they did away with the county restriction, but they had already done that when they did away with the check in stations.

    They went to 3 tags but they went from 30 to almost 45 days.

    But to make that worse they backed it up into march.

    The biologist noted the issues with this.

    The GA tried to compromise by limiting how many birds could be harvested inn the first 10 days.

    The Biologist recommend condensing the season again, but until they go back to actually making you show your tags to a station or call them in all of this is useless.

    Thats what I meant by them closing it.

    I don't get nearly as excited about turkeys as I do deer, but dang it so easy to solve the issue till its pitiful.
    Yup, he's crazy...


    like a fox. The dude may be coming in a little too hard and crazy but 90% of everything he says is correct.

    Sort of like Toof. But way smarter.
    ~Scatter Shot

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    Johnny come lately's.

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    Last edited by Sportin' Woodies; 06-08-2019 at 09:10 PM.

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    Only one half dozen of said bird shall be eaten by such rat snake that shall be hitteth by such mini van that runneth over such deer that get runneth over more than such rat snaketh.

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    I am very disturbed on many levels when it comes to Scdnr and their mismanagement of wildlife and nuisance animals on many fronts. The deer and turkey debacle are the start.

    Currently they are letting hogs take over the damn state by providing a safe haven on the WMA lands. All you got to do is Go to Clemson and check out the hog damage at Fants Grove. They don’t allow dogs ever, but supposedly trap, on your tax $. Go to nearly any wma and you will see the hogs are coming and SCDNR is going to sit back and watch it all happen. Clemson is also doing a fine job at exponentially increasing the pig population as well by not managing their own problem. As a hog hunter I love it, as a conservationist and outdoor enthusiast it is absurd and unacceptable to not use the public to control the nuisance. In. Few years they gonna be begging us to come kill their “educated” swine.

    Bunch of idiots running our system that don’t know shit about the bushes
    Windows Down!

  16. #16
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    Strickland, you should have taken up research biology as a profession..... I reckon.
    Or write opinions for the State...
    \"I never saw a wild thing feel sorry for itself. A small bird will drop dead frozen from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.\" <br />D.H. LAWRENCE

  17. #17
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    I told y'all three years ago the change was just to get uniform seasons. The plan was to then study and make recommendations. Of course biologists already knew what they wanted. "Evidence" supported it. Changes were made. It was again a compromise. Turkey regs have improved. They will be tweaked again. The one bird in the first of the season should help nesting success.

    How do you change the system? I'm not sure there are enough involved voters to cause the change.

    The Ag committee is made up primarily of newly elected legislators. The the committee is a beginning committee. Most freshmen legislators are assigned Ag or 3M. After 2 to 4 years they get moved to Education, Judiciary or LCI. Ways and Means is top dog.

    I tell you this so you can realize most of the freshmen members have no experience in the outdoors. They tend to be impressionable. Your influence is very strong with them. They listen to the biologists. They generally go along with the wishes of their chairman who works closely with DNR biologists.

    I left the committee after 4 years. That is the norm. My legislative career would have been more fun if I had stayed. My community wanted me on Ways and Means. Having more seasoned reps on the committee may help.

    With the current liberal slant of biologists running the system you would not like the results.

    The sign up period for the legislature is March 15- 30.
    Last edited by Duck Tape; 06-09-2019 at 07:30 AM.
    Either write things worth reading, or do things worth writing.

  18. #18
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    South Carolina is one of only a few states where natural resource management is controlled by the legislature. In the vast majority of other states, natural resource management is controlled by a governing board within each state’s natural resource agency, reducing political intrusions into resource management.

    Who appoints them?

    Yea, I thought so.
    Either write things worth reading, or do things worth writing.

  19. #19
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    So Lowe, do you consider Ruth and Cantrell to be liberal?
    \"I never saw a wild thing feel sorry for itself. A small bird will drop dead frozen from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.\" <br />D.H. LAWRENCE

  20. #20
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    I am not going to call names.

    I see they asked retired biologists their opinion. Try asking them why the current biologists can't get their crops in. Why can't the follow their own managements goals? Why can't they repair dikes in a reasonable time?

    Talk to some old school retired biologists. They will tell you how the new generation of biologist think and work. They lean toward conservation and environmentalism instead of consumptive management. They cater to bird watchers not hunters. Natural vegetation instead of crop manipulation. Getting off at 4:30 rather than finishing planting before the storm hits. Too many technicians are just working a job. They don't stay. Liberal professors are on the rise in these fields. It permeates the agencies insideously.

    These are bigger concerns. You can get rid of a politician!
    Either write things worth reading, or do things worth writing.

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