Ducks Unlimited vs Flyway Federation

[Gregory]

I am old enough to have hunted long before the corn pond frenzy. There is no question that corn ponds have changed public land hunting.

[BOGSTER]

So if I plant chufa and pull turkeys off someone’s land is that bad ? Or if I build a dove field and hold more doves than the guy next door what then ?

Not really a big deal when you pull all the doves off my field, but it’s cause for concern if you held 150k mallards from ever leaving the northern states (when without manipulation, they would) for the duration of duck season in their state.

I’m all about private property rights, and a man being able to do what the hell he wants on his land.
But when you start hoarding a public resource, preventing someone else from getting a chance at their share, I get bothered.
If 5 clubs in KA and MO held 100k (a very real possibility) from migrating south into Arkie/LA, that is a problem.

When they freeze, they freeze, and move on to the next guy. That’s the way God designed migration, and we shouldn’t be allowed by law to get around that in my personal opinion.

[Palmetto Duck]

I saw an unplanted lake/refuge in KS this year holding easily 50k Ducks. Shot the shit outta mallards in a corn pond close by. Should we ask KS to fill in that refuge? Food makes a difference. Look at Santee now vs 70s 80s. But can we tell people what to do? In other states? If so let’s make them stop those coyotes that have migrated here and are now eating our turkeys.

[BOGSTER]

20mil says those folks don’t know a damn thing about a duck, much less the matter of imprinting.
The Santee Cooper lakes were nuked to NOTHING by 1998, but the wads of ringnecks and even a decent amount of Cans came til 2001.
Imprinting is real.

It’s not talking about stopping the entire population of waterfowl in the country, but we’ve already manipulated them out of the natural cycle of being highly mobile in search for food, now we’re essentially manipulating natural weather to keep them
where we want them? How much more fair chase and skill does man need to wittle away before we all just whack the snot out of ducks (5 man limits every day bro!) until I gotta fly to fucking the Yukon Territory to pull a few wild puddle ducks down into my decoys?

I grew up in an area so rich in public waterfowl history.
Books and documentaries have been done on this area.
True legends of duck hunting were born, raised, and earned their reputations here.

I grew up idolizing these men, hoping and soaking up as much knowledge and time around them as I could, in hopes that one day I could be like that.
They were kings of the cypress swamps as far as I could tell. I never gave a damn about how far some dude could throw a football, but I was awe struck at hearing stories of Faitsie Bair lighting 50 mallards on the riverbank or Toy McCord pulling 4 limits on the point at Mcguirts lake.
Public duck hunting was wild and free, and I loved every bit of it. Be it wood ducks in stumphole, the last few mallards in the Bog Hole, or ringnecks and a few Cans funneling off the big water between 16 and Bass islands.

We have gotten lazy and lessened this sport and ourselves, buy building dumbass, man-made corn ponds, keeping the ducks there by the use of mechanical devices, all the while losing what made those that were down right good at this sport, fade away.

We have ruined duck hunting, and honestly all that was good and pure about it. We have pimped it out for a dollar and publicized it until the things that made it great, no longer exist.
We’ve made ducks something they aren’t. Lazy and worthless, and in turn made the men that claim to be duck hunters into the same.
Of course, I’ll be mocked and made fun of by the majority on this site, but that’s ok.
The majority of this site couldn’t hunt a wild duck in a wild place if their life depended on it.

There is no going back. Only adapting.
Ducks are now a hot, profitable commodity, and we will continue to build and manipulate until a Duck never has to leave the prairies. I hate it, and I’m sure those before us would too.


Change My Mind....

I’ll pour another Glenfiddich.

There are many more variables than just plant, then flood = ducks.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around the theory that 41,000,000 waterfowl can be short stopped by artificial habitat, ie corn ponds, flooded harvested crops, "heated" ponds, etc. There were MILLIONS of acres of crops available to waterfowl this past fall, plenty of water and limited to zero snow cover.

Bog, I am playing devils advocate here. Consider this: Devastating floods in 2015 and subsequent storms (hurricanes) and flooding destroyed a lot of our coastal habitat. Could it be the Rimini / Manning area has "short stopped" what few birds we get by replacing (and constantly increasing) the habitat lost over the last few years due to storms?


There was an attempt to short stop ducks and other migrating waterfowl from utilizing the Gulf marsh due to the impacts of the Horizon BP oil spill........it didn't work. https://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-s...nt_keep_d.html

"The idea, hatched before BP temporarily capped its well in July, was that ducks, geese and shorebirds would see tempting wetlands and stop there rather than continue on to oily marshes. The U.S. Department of Agriculture joined in, spending $20 million in the five Gulf states and Arkansas, Georgia and Missouri to provide respite for tens of millions of birds heading south from as far north as Alaska and Iceland.

About 50,000 acres of farmland flooded with BP money was in Louisiana, where more than 600 miles of coastline was oiled in the months after the Deepwater Horizon drilling rig exploded April 20. Another 28,800 acres were in Texas, and nearly 71,000 acres were in Mississippi.

If you measure success by whether those temporary shallow ponds kept ducks out of coastal marshes, "it was a miserable failure. And it really had no chance of keeping substantial numbers of ducks from southeast Louisiana," said Larry Reynolds, waterfowl study team leader for the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries. Flooded fields won't grow the food some species need, he said."

Most folks won't even remember the weather pattern for December 2010 and January 2011 that year. SC was smashed by a snow event in January 2011......I'd bet folks have forgotten what they killed that year too.

[BOGSTER]

I used to believe everybody when they said coyotes were brought here.
It sounded feasible and there was no other explanation as to how or why they got here.

But I got older and more reasonable, and I began to pay attention to the influx of armadillos. Who the hell would wanna bring them here? I think they just slowly moved into the area.
Coyotes probably did the same. Sure fox pens aided in it, but there’s not one ounce of proof that they wouldn’t or weren’t moving here already.

I saw an unplanted lake/refuge in KS this year holding easily 50k Ducks. Shot the shit outta mallards in a corn pond close by. Should we ask KS to fill in that refuge? Food makes a difference. Look at Santee now vs 70s 80s. But can we tell people what to do? In other states? If so let’s make them stop those coyotes that have migrated here and are now eating our turkeys.

[JABIII]

we will continue to build and manipulate until a Duck never has to leave the NORTHERN prairies.

That is going to be the fact of the matter...

[BOGSTER]

Wonder what Ward Allen would say...

[cajunwannabe]

We have gotten lazy and lessened this sport and ourselves, buy building dumbass, man-made corn ponds, keeping the ducks there by the use of mechanical devices, all the while losing what made those that were down right good at this sport, fade away.

We have ruined duck hunting, and honestly all that was good and pure about it. We have pimped it out for a dollar and publicized it until the things that made it great, no longer exist.
We’ve made ducks something they aren’t. Lazy and worthless, and in turn made the men that claim to be duck hunters into the same.
Of course, I’ll be mocked and made fun of by the majority on this site, but that’s ok.
The majority of this site couldn’t hunt a wild duck in a wild place if their life depended on it.

Hear, hear!

[beanhunter]

20mil says those folks don’t know a damn thing about a duck, much less the matter of imprinting.
The Santee Cooper lakes were nuked to NOTHING by 1998, but the wads of ringnecks and even a decent amount of Cans came til 2001.
Imprinting is real.

It’s not talking about stopping the entire population of waterfowl in the country, but we’ve already manipulated them out of the natural cycle of being highly mobile in search for food, now we’re essentially manipulating natural weather to keep them
where we want them? How much more fair chase and skill does man need to wittle away before we all just whack the snot out of ducks (5 man limits every day bro!) until I gotta fly to fucking the Yukon Territory to pull a few wild puddle ducks down into my decoys?

I grew up in an area so rich in public waterfowl history.
Books and documentaries have been done on this area.
True legends of duck hunting were born, raised, and earned their reputations here.

I grew up idolizing these men, hoping and soaking up as much knowledge and time around them as I could, in hopes that one day I could be like that.
They were kings of the cypress swamps as far as I could tell. I never gave a damn about how far some dude could throw a football, but I was awe struck at hearing stories of Faitsie Bair lighting 50 mallards on the riverbank or Toy McCord pulling 4 limits on the point at Mcguirts lake.
Public duck hunting was wild and free, and I loved every bit of it. Be it wood ducks in stumphole, the last few mallards in the Bog Hole, or ringnecks and a few Cans funneling off the big water between 16 and Bass islands.

We have gotten lazy and lessened this sport and ourselves, buy building dumbass, man-made corn ponds, keeping the ducks there by the use of mechanical devices, all the while losing what made those that were down right good at this sport, fade away.

We have ruined duck hunting, and honestly all that was good and pure about it. We have pimped it out for a dollar and publicized it until the things that made it great, no longer exist.
We’ve made ducks something they aren’t. Lazy and worthless, and in turn made the men that claim to be duck hunters into the same.
Of course, I’ll be mocked and made fun of by the majority on this site, but that’s ok.
The majority of this site couldn’t hunt a wild duck in a wild place if their life depended on it.

There is no going back. Only adapting.
Ducks are now a hot, profitable commodity, and we will continue to build and manipulate until a Duck never has to leave the prairies. I hate it, and I’m sure those before us would too.


Change My Mind....

I’ll pour another Glenfiddich.

Sums it up pretty well. I Hope many can read this. Great post

[Catdaddy]

Y'all do realize that many moons ago, 100s of thousands of mallards used to winter below Jacksonville in the St John's River..

The migration had already started shifting north 50-100 years before the first corn pond was ever built.

Just some food for thought.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

[Sparkleberry Ridge Runner]

Wait wait wait.. It has been argued to death on this site that if it weren't for the private landowner building ponds and spending money that the public land hunter in SC would have NOTHING to shoot at. Which is it? Are all the "ponds" around Santee helping the hunters or are they keeping more and more ringnecks from getting to Florida? Will Florida see with ringnecks what the people in Louisiana are claiming is happening with mallards?

[BOGSTER]

The US Army Corp of Engineers would have fun with that.
This pumping water to keep a field open is not a good thing. There is a finite amount of water in the ground and pumping it to the surface to prevent a duck from migrating is not a good use of that resource. Now it is documented that the less a duck travels in their migration the more successful they are at nesting so it is a double edge sword.

Very true, but let’s not pretend Mr Vandemore is doing all of this because he’s concerned about well being of potential nesting success.

[coot nasty]

Wait wait wait.. It has been argued to death on this site that if it weren't for the private landowner building ponds and spending money that the public land hunter in SC would have NOTHING to shoot at. Which is it? Are all the "ponds" around Santee helping the hunters or are they keeping more and more ringnecks from getting to Florida? Will Florida see with ringnecks what the people in Louisiana are claiming is happening with mallards?

People in Florida are having to shoot Ringnecks because the Widgeon, pintails and Gadwall are not showing up

[BOGSTER]

[QUOTE=Catdaddy;2588973]Y'all do realize that many moons ago, 100s of thousands of mallards used to winter below Jacksonville in the St John's River.. [\QUOTE]

Any verifiable proof of that? lol.


I’m not discrediting that natural cycles cause shifts in wildlife. I believe that has been happening long before we were able to understand it.
But, I am most definitely saying that in this day, in my lifetime, that man is intentionally and directly affecting nature and migrational patterns via manipulation of crops and warming impoundments, keeping a nationwide resource locked into single states.

No offense Bunn, but it’s asinine to not see that.

[coot nasty]

Y'all do realize that many moons ago, 100s of thousands of mallards used to winter below Jacksonville in the St John's River..

The migration had already started shifting north 50-100 years before the first corn pond was ever built.

Just some food for thought.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

How many moons ago?

[JABIII]

People in Florida are having to shoot Ringnecks because the Widgeon, pintails and Gadwall are not showing up

Best post in thread.

Nobody sets out to shoot that trash if there is anything above a superlip available...

[BOGSTER]

I’m younger than you, and many my age spent a lot more of our time hunting the hydrilla ringnecks than you.

They hold a special place in me and I’ll hunt them when I find them.

I don’t care if you were raised on mallards and black ducks, if the sound of 10 dingers breaking down out of the clouds doesn’t turn your crank, I say your cheese has slid slap off your cracker.

[coot nasty]

I’m younger than you, and many my age spent a lot more of our time hunting the hydrilla ringnecks than you.

They hold a special place in me and I’ll hunt them when I find them.

I don’t care if you were raised on mallards and black ducks, if the sound of 10 dingers breaking down out of the clouds doesn’t turn your crank, I say your cheese has slid slap off your cracker.

This is a fact!

[Calibogue]

Best post in thread.

Nobody sets out to shoot that trash if there is anything above a superlip available...

It's what I got so it's what I shoot!
Nonetheless, I plant, I flood, I culture marshes and wetlands like it's my job!
I do this because I am fascinated by the migration and do it on a breath of prayer that somewhere in the northland there are ducks thinking of my place....my wetlands and what they are gonna do when they get here!
But, at the end of the day I don't consider hunting the corn a pimp hunt aside from the fact that I like building kick as blinds.
The MRP that runs amuck is a far greater pimp of our waterfowl than Grand Isle Illinois or Habitat Flats that do all they can to retain ducks IMO.

[JABIII]

I truly love watching, hearing, everything about them. Shooting them? Not so much, but it is a pleasant distraction when it is all to be had...