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Thread: Toofer....check out Rogan's recent podcast

  1. #1
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    Default Toofer....check out Rogan's recent podcast

    Where the cardiologist turned lifestyle medicine practitioner/anti meat evangelist is debating Chris Kresser.

    I doubt you 'podcast' but this is pretty high quality stuff.
    "hunting should be a challenge and a passion not a way of making a living or a road to fame"

    Rubberhead

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    I saw that one but haven't listened to it yet.

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    just let me know who "wins". granted, just like the (R) and (D) phenomenon, you tend to agree with one more than the other...

    and congrats on making healthy choices blah blah blah
    Ugh. Stupid people piss me off.

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    While they are definitely in two "camps" I said high quality. Much unlike any D and R discussions these days where the participants are looking to headline some click bait with "destroy" in the headline.
    "hunting should be a challenge and a passion not a way of making a living or a road to fame"

    Rubberhead

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    I have almost finished it. In some ways, I’m more confused than ever. That’s probably due to my simple and rattled brain. I do have a much more cynical approach to things as I’ve aged, so I find it a little disconcerting that Kahn has practiced his ways since the age of 18 (42 years). As a general rule, we tend to find stats and studies that back our thoughts when we’re so invested in something. Kresser has practiced different approaches and I do believe his curiosity drives him to find the best way of life.

    I would love to hear what Glenn and 2th think if they listen.

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    no, you dont. I'd be confused, too....

    I find it impossible to believe that eating a pound of bacon and 6 eggs for breakfast could be healthy. Mainly because bacon tastes so damn good.
    Ugh. Stupid people piss me off.

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    Eating a lb. of bacon is not good for you and I don't care what anybody says. 4 months ago my blood sugar was 136 and A1C was 6.1. Made up my mind no drugs for this ol boy. Last week it was 76 and 5.2. Tennis 3-5 days a week, no bread or rice. Fruit and nuts, wheatgerm for breakfast and dinner about 2ish and no evening meals. A few beers for Kav out of respect for the way he has been treated and only lost 4 lbs. Yall get some of that.
    Gettin old is for pussies! AND MY NEW TRUE people say like Capt. Tom >>>>>>>>>/
    "Wow, often imitated but never duplicated. No one can do it like the master. My hat is off to you DRDUCK!"

  8. #8
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    That's awesome stuff, Dr. Duck. Add some bacon and let us know what happens.
    "hunting should be a challenge and a passion not a way of making a living or a road to fame"

    Rubberhead

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerbdog View Post
    I have almost finished it. In some ways, I’m more confused than ever. That’s probably due to my simple and rattled brain. I do have a much more cynical approach to things as I’ve aged, so I find it a little disconcerting that Kahn has practiced his ways since the age of 18 (42 years). As a general rule, we tend to find stats and studies that back our thoughts when we’re so invested in something. Kresser has practiced different approaches and I do believe his curiosity drives him to find the best way of life.

    I would love to hear what Glenn and 2th think if they listen.
    The studies Kresser cites are more detailed and complete and take into account multiple factors that drive health. Kahn is hung up on the 60 year old lipid hypothesis and even the new studies he cites only look at that one variable, fat, and dismiss all other factors. But Kahn has decades invested in this mantra and within the first 90 minutes gets defensive and dismissive of any counter arguments. That being said I'm only about 1/3 of the way through. Good discussion for sure.
    Last edited by Glenn; 10-02-2018 at 08:10 AM.

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    Screw that pod cast and screw trying to explain the obviousness of this reality to anyone, especially 2oofer.

    In small group the other night, the collective understanding of energy in energy out, bread is good, fat is bad, commonly held stupidity came up in conversation. I love these guys and I'm NOT going to tell them shit about how this works.

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    Let me guess... the guy has a book out...

    As long as you avoid processed foods and refined sugars you will be healthy.... but only only way to truly back up any claim or something over another is through the scientific method . Large well designed studies all see to have the same result a plant based diet with around 15-25 percent lean protein and whole grains has proven superior both at the biochemical level and for longevity and disease prevention.
    "The best things in life make you sweaty"
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    “We need the tonic of wildness...At the same time that we are earnest to explore and learn all things, we require that all things be mysterious and unexplorable, that land and sea be indefinitely wild, unsurveyed and unfathomed by us...”
    ― Henry David Thoreau

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    Pretty much sums it up. Processed anything is NOT good. Hard not to eat anymore without it but.
    Gettin old is for pussies! AND MY NEW TRUE people say like Capt. Tom >>>>>>>>>/
    "Wow, often imitated but never duplicated. No one can do it like the master. My hat is off to you DRDUCK!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawhoo View Post
    a plant based diet with around 15-25 percent lean protein and whole grains has proven superior both at the biochemical level and for longevity and disease prevention.
    Post up the supporting data.

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    MACRONUTRIENTS — Macronutrients are the chemical compounds consumed in the largest quantities and provide bulk energy. The three primary macronutrients include carbohydrates, proteins, and fats. Fiber can also be considered a macronutrient [6].

    Carbohydrate — Carbohydrates should make up 45 to 65 percent of total caloric intake, as recommended by the United States Dietary Guidelines [6]. Both the quantity and type of carbohydrate (eg, whole-grain versus refined-grain) have differential effects on postprandial glucose levels and glycemic index. Several prospective studies have associated diets high in glycemic index with risk of developing type 2 diabetes mellitus, coronary heart disease, and some cancers. Glycemic index for common foods are available in the table (table 2). One important way of achieving a healthy diet is to replace carbohydrates having a high glycemic index (eg, white rice, pancakes) with a low glycemic index (eg, fruits, vegetables).

    Added sugars should be limited and comprise no more than 10 percent of total calories consumed [6]. These sugars often come from sweetened beverages and almost all processed foods. If a large percentage of calories comes from added sugars, it may be difficult for patients to meet their nutritional needs within caloric limits. Naturally occurring sugars (eg, from fruit or milk) are not considered added sugars. However, fruit juice should still be limited to small daily amounts, if any, as it tends to be high in calories without the added benefit of fiber, which is found in whole fruit. (See "Dietary carbohydrates" and 'Sweetened beverages' below.)

    Protein — Protein should make up 10 to 35 percent of total caloric intake, as recommended by the United States Dietary Guidelines [6]. Individuals should be counseled to eat a variety of healthy protein-rich foods, including fish, lean meat, poultry, eggs, beans, peas, soy products, and unsalted nuts and seeds. Patients should be advised to avoid protein sources with unhealthy fats. (See "Dietary fat", section on 'Recommendations for patients'.)

    Common sources of dietary protein include whole foods (eg, meat, fish, egg, vegetables, milk) and protein powders (eg, casein, whey, soy). The source of protein has a differential effect on health (eg, red meats are associated with increased mortality, compared with white meats). (See 'Protein-rich foods' below.)

    Fat — Fat should make up 20 to 35 percent of total caloric intake, as recommended by the United States Dietary Guidelines [6]. The type of fat consumed appears to be more important than the amount of total fat (table 3). Trans fats contribute to coronary heart disease (CHD), while n-3 (and perhaps n-6) polyunsaturated fats are protective [10,11]. (See "Dietary fat", section on 'Quality of fat'.)

    Trans fatty acid consumption should be kept as low as possible. The major sources of trans fats include margarines and partially hydrogenated vegetable fats. These fats are also present in many processed and fast foods. The United States Dietary Guidelines recommend limiting dietary cholesterol and keeping consumption of saturated fat under 10 percent of calories per day [6].

    There is some evidence that long-term consumption of fish oil and n-3 fatty acids reduces the risk of cardiovascular disease. One to two servings of oily fish in the weekly diet is suggested for most adult patients. This is discussed in detail separately. (See "Fish oil and marine omega-3 fatty acids".)

    Consumption of trans fat, saturated fat, and dietary cholesterol each affect plasma cholesterol levels. Elevated plasma cholesterol concentrations, particularly low-density lipoprotein-cholesterol (LDL-C), show a strong and consistent association with the incidence of CHD [12,13]. However, there are limited data showing that dietary interventions to lower cholesterol intake improve patient outcomes. (See "Lipid lowering with diet or dietary supplements" and "Lipoprotein(a) and cardiovascular disease".)

    Fiber — The recommended amount of dietary fiber is 14 g per 1000 calories [6]. For most moderately active adults in the United States, that translates to approximately 25 g to 36 g per day.

    Fiber is the portion of plants that cannot be digested by enzymes in the gastrointestinal tract. Fiber is available in a large variety of natural foods and supplements (table 4). Patients should be advised to replace refined grains (eg, white rice, white bread) with whole grains (eg, brown rice, whole-wheat bread), which have higher fiber content. (See 'Grains' below.)

    Increased fiber intake is associated with decreased risk in cardiovascular events, incidence of diabetes, and all-cause mortality:

    ●Cardiovascular disease – High fiber intake is associated with a 40 to 50 percent reduction in the risk of CHD and stroke compared with low fiber intake [14-19] and is associated with lower cardiovascular and all-cause mortality in patients who have had a myocardial infarction [20]. A pooled analysis of cohort studies found that each 10 g increase in energy-adjusted intake of fiber per day was associated with a 14 percent relative reduction in the risk for all coronary events and a 27 percent reduction in CHD death [21]. High fiber diets may in part protect against CHD by controlling cardiovascular risk factors, including lowering insulin levels, improving lipid profiles, and lowering blood pressure [22,23].

    ●Diabetes mellitus – Fiber consumption from grains has a protective effect against diabetes mellitus. Increased fiber intake may also be beneficial in controlling blood glucose in patients with established diabetes. (See "Nutritional considerations in type 1 diabetes mellitus" and "Nutritional considerations in type 2 diabetes mellitus" and "Risk factors for type 2 diabetes mellitus", section on 'Dietary patterns'.)

    ●Cancer – Fiber intake likely lowers the risk of colorectal cancer [24]. Dietary fiber and risk of colorectal and other cancers is discussed separately. (See "Colorectal cancer: Epidemiology, risk factors, and protective factors", section on 'Fiber' and "Cancer prevention", section on 'Fruits and vegetables'.)

    ●Mortality – Observational studies suggest that increased dietary fiber intake is associated with decreased all-cause mortality [25,26]. A 2014 meta-analysis of seven prospective cohort studies including over 900,000 patients found that high fiber intake was associated with decreased mortality (relative risk [RR] 0.77, 95% CI 0.74-0.80) with a dose-response relationship (each 10 g/day increment associated with RR 0.89, 95% CI 0.85-0.92) [27]. In the largest of the included studies, the European prospective cohort study, fiber intake was also inversely associated with mortality from circulatory, respiratory, digestive, and non-cardiovascular, noncancer inflammatory diseases [26]. The associations were stronger in smokers and heavy drinkers (>18 g alcohol/day). Fiber from vegetables and cereals had higher impact than fiber from fruit.
    "The best things in life make you sweaty"
    - Edgar Allen Poe

    “We need the tonic of wildness...At the same time that we are earnest to explore and learn all things, we require that all things be mysterious and unexplorable, that land and sea be indefinitely wild, unsurveyed and unfathomed by us...”
    ― Henry David Thoreau

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    Toledo E, Salas-Salvadó J, Donat-Vargas C, et al. Mediterranean Diet and Invasive Breast Cancer Risk Among Women at High Cardiovascular Risk in the PREDIMED Trial: A Randomized Clinical Trial. JAMA Intern Med 2015; 175:1752.
    Estruch R, Ros E, Salas-Salvadó J, et al. Retraction and Republication: Primary Prevention of Cardiovascular Disease with a Mediterranean Diet. N Engl J Med 2013;368:1279-90. N Engl J Med 2018; 378:2441.
    "The best things in life make you sweaty"
    - Edgar Allen Poe

    “We need the tonic of wildness...At the same time that we are earnest to explore and learn all things, we require that all things be mysterious and unexplorable, that land and sea be indefinitely wild, unsurveyed and unfathomed by us...”
    ― Henry David Thoreau

  16. #16
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    Pretty straight forward article. Thanks for posting.
    Gettin old is for pussies! AND MY NEW TRUE people say like Capt. Tom >>>>>>>>>/
    "Wow, often imitated but never duplicated. No one can do it like the master. My hat is off to you DRDUCK!"

  17. #17
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    Your argument literally collapsed at "Carbohydrate — Carbohydrates should make up 45 to 65 percent of total caloric intake, as recommended by the United States Dietary Guidelines [6]" and "Willett WC. Nutritional Epidemiology, 2nd ed, Oxford University Press, New York 1998".

    This misinformation is not just wrong, its corruptly wrong. But I don't care what you eat, so you keep eating your bread and building that gut.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fish View Post
    Your argument literally collapsed at "Carbohydrate — Carbohydrates should make up 45 to 65 percent of total caloric intake, as recommended by the United States Dietary Guidelines [6]" and "Willett WC. Nutritional Epidemiology, 2nd ed, Oxford University Press, New York 1998".

    This misinformation is not just wrong, its corruptly wrong. But I don't care what you eat, so you keep eating your bread and building that gut.
    Vegetable, fruits, and whole grains are carbohydrates.

    What a winner of an arguement . First have other people quote their source. Then saying that person is corrupt wrong . Then making the assumption the word carb equals bread, which it doesn't, read above. Then not giving any reason for said beliefs.
    "The best things in life make you sweaty"
    - Edgar Allen Poe

    “We need the tonic of wildness...At the same time that we are earnest to explore and learn all things, we require that all things be mysterious and unexplorable, that land and sea be indefinitely wild, unsurveyed and unfathomed by us...”
    ― Henry David Thoreau

  19. #19
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    finally, someone else for the meat eaters to focus on.

    Thanks, Dawhoo. Its interesting what you point out about "carbs" and also interesting to hear just how fanatical people are about THEIR diets. You can cite literature for days but so can they. Its fairly confusing....

    I agree with your dietary recommendations. A plant based diet "has been proven" to be the best for health and longevity.
    Ugh. Stupid people piss me off.

  20. #20
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    Lowcountry
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    Some of you talk too much. Go listen to the podcast and make some relevant comments.
    "hunting should be a challenge and a passion not a way of making a living or a road to fame"

    Rubberhead

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