Abortion. Where do you fall?

[MolliesMaster]

Oh, and if you’re of the opinion that it would be better to abort than be born to an unwanted mother, then I suggest you grow up and learn about a thing called personal responsibility and consequences of ones own actions.

Can you elaborate?

[wskinner]

I'm not talking life here. I am referring to miserable households (abusive, degrading, profiteering, neglectful, and just plain evil). I am referring to the lacking of humanity, as a whole.

An unwanted child, for the most part, will not experience that daily chance of being granted that joy. And that, sir, is what is disheartening.

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You do realize the profiteering households you keep mentioning are getting pregnant on purpose, and actually want to have kids?

[USMCsilver]

You do realize the profiteering households you keep mentioning are getting pregnant on purpose, and actually want to have kids?

I do understand that. And in that type of household situation, I don't think the parents should be granted the privilege of bringing a child into this world.

In that instance, I'm just saying that parents are often irresponsible, and provided the opportunity to abort, they may have done so. But, since they can't, and they are slack, they just treat the kid as another paycheck.

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[wskinner]

Can you elaborate?

A potential outcome of unprotected sex, is pregnancy. If someone is not willing to take responsibility of that outcome, then they shouldn’t have sex. (For the sake of argument, we will remove rape and medical concernsfrom the table, seeing as only a very small number of abortions fall into those categories anyway)

[Moonlight Hunter]

Can you elaborate?

I think he was trying to say that just because someone gets pregnant and doesn't want the baby, they shouldn't get the choice to abort it. They made their choice to have that baby when they had sex, protected or not. They should take responsibility for their actions and raise the child the best they can, or let someone more fit raise it.

Or he could be saying that the baby can dictate their own life once they are old enough, and their circumstances surrounding their birth do not dictate their quality of life later on because we live in a country with the most opportunity afforded to individuals that ever existed.

It's one of the two, and I agree with the first one more than I agree with the second one. I'll let wskinner elaborate more on it if I am off in any way.

[Bigtimber2]

Abortion is the biggest civil rights issue of our life time. Pro-Slavery people where blind to freedom for all Americans. Pro-choice people are blinded to the right to life. I pray we look back in 50 years and see abortion in the same light as slavery.

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[Moonlight Hunter]

I do understand that. And in that type of household situation, I don't think the parents should be granted the privilege of bringing a child into this world.

In that instance, I'm just saying that parents are often irresponsible, and provided the opportunity to abort, they may have done so. But, since they can't, and they are slack, they just treat the kid as another paycheck.

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It sounds like you would be more for sterilization than abortion, correct? Take the parent's choice out of it, then the kid never has to suffer the consequences.

[mello_collins]

Putting religion aside, I’m not sure how someone can logically say that life doesn’t begin at conception. If left alone, that fertilized egg will become an infant, barring miscarriage, the same way an infant grows into an adult. So, if you believe in murder for those outside the womb, then abortion is also murder. If you can’t understand that, well....you’re a moron.

Oh, and if you’re of the opinion that it would be better to abort than be born to an unwanted mother, then I suggest you grow up and learn about a thing called personal responsibility and consequences of ones own actions.

Him. Whoops! The condom broke.
Her. Its ok i am on birth control also as our backup.

Two weeks later no period. Were they wanting a kid? Were they being responsible and trying to avoid pregnancy? They don’t want children and at this point it is an unidentifiable round clump of cells. What’s the call? Justify your response without religion and take into account that it is not developed at all.

[Moonlight Hunter]

Him. Whoops! The condom broke.
Her. Its ok i am on birth control also as our backup.

Two weeks later no period. Were they wanting a kid? Were they being responsible and trying to avoid pregnancy? They don’t want children and at this point it is an unidentifiable round clump of cells. What’s the call? Justify your response without religion and take into account that it is not developed at all.

When has birth control ever been 100% safe?

When has abstinence ever resulted in a pregnancy(excluding Mary and Joseph)?

[USMCsilver]

Him. Whoops! The condom broke.
Her. Its ok i am on birth control also as our backup.

Two weeks later no period. Were they wanting a kid? Were they being responsible and trying to avoid pregnancy? They don’t want children and at this point it is an unidentifiable round clump of cells. What’s the call? Justify your response without religion and take into account that it is not developed at all.

Yup.

Like I said - morning after pill at every gas station check-out. Right beside the 5hr Energy.

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[wskinner]

Him. Whoops! The condom broke.
Her. Its ok i am on birth control also as our backup.

Two weeks later no period. Were they wanting a kid? Were they being responsible and trying to avoid pregnancy? They don’t want children and at this point it is an unidentifiable round clump of cells. What’s the call? Justify your response without religion and take into account that it is not developed at all.

Could you come up a more unlikely scenario? To answer your question, that is a risk when using birth control and it is taught in sex Ed, so again, personal responsibility. If you are willing to roll the dice that your protection will work, then be prepared if it doesn’t.

[Moonlight Hunter]

Yup.

Like I said - morning after pill at every gas station check-out. Right beside the 5hr Energy.
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Absolutely agree. No telling whether someone is pregnant or not the next day. The free market will determine when that happens. You can order the morning after pill off amazon now. Not sure it does much good when it arrives two or three days after you had sex; although, it does afford the individual user the privacy and convenience of purchasing it ahead of time, which is fantastic.

[USMCsilver]

Could you come up a more unlikely scenario. To answer your question, that is a risk when using birth control and it is taught in sex Ed, so again, personal responsibility. If you are willing to roll the dice that your protection will work, then be prepared if it doesn’t.

That's not really how personal responsibility should work.

Why should I be the one to bear the responsibility of a child's life? If I can decide on how to raise him, treat him, parent him, then I should be afforded the right to terminate a non-viable fetus...a potential child who will have to endure an unnurturing household, one that makes a child wish they were dead...

Personal responsibility is like getting a speeding ticket, owning up to it, and paying the fine.

It shouldn't be equated to bringing an unwanted life into this world and having to care for it for 18 years.

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[wskinner]

Yup.

Like I said - morning after pill at every gas station check-out. Right beside the 5hr Energy.

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Ignorance may be bliss, but murder is still murder.

[mello_collins]

Could you come up a more unlikely scenario. To answer your question, that is a risk when using birth control and it is taught in sex Ed, so again, personal responsibility. If you are willing to roll the dice that your protection will work, then be prepared if it doesn’t.

You’re playing absolutes. OK here is one. There is always a chance that the oncoming car is going to come into your lane a kill your family. It is your fault because you took them on the road and you knew there was the chance to meet a distracted driver. Same logic.

[wskinner]

That's not really how personal responsibility should work.

Why should I be the one to bear the responsibility of a child's life? If I can decide on how to raise him, treat him, parent him, then I should be afforded the right to terminate a non-viable fetus...a potential child who will have to endure an unnurturing household, one that makes a child wish they were dead...

Personal responsibility is like getting a speeding ticket, owning up to it, and paying the fine.

It shouldn't be equated to bringing an unwanted life into this world and having to care for it for 18 years.

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So, personal responsibility is only important to have if it doesn’t cost you very much? Got it.

[MolliesMaster]

A potential outcome of unprotected sex, is pregnancy. If someone is not willing to take responsibility of that outcome, then they shouldn’t have sex. (For the sake of argument, we will remove rape and medical concernsfrom the table, seeing as only a very small number of abortions fall into those categories anyway)

But why is that the child's fault? If someone who is unfit to be a mother, has sex and gets pregnant, are we not punishing the child, who had know choice in the matter of being created, by bringing it into a shitty existence?

I swear, its almost like some of you are ok with children suffering as long as they aren't killed in the womb. There simply aren't enough good people in the world to take care of all the children born into shitty situations, and I'm talking real situations, not a trailer home and a dad who drinks. I'm talking abuse, kids that never receive an ounce of love, children born to drug addicts who never show them an ounce of compassion. Those children grow into adults and live with that pain forever. Sure, some of them manage to over come it, but I'd be willing to bet that many, many more suffer for the rest of their lives because of it. Now who are we being fair too?

[Moonlight Hunter]

That's not really how personal responsibility should work.

Why should I be the one to bear the responsibility of a child's life? If I can decide on how to raise him, treat him, parent him, then I should be afforded the right to terminate a non-viable fetus...a potential child who will have to endure an unnurturing household, one that makes a child wish they were dead...

Personal responsibility is like getting a speeding ticket, owning up to it, and paying the fine.

It shouldn't be equated to bringing an unwanted life into this world and having to care for it for 18 years.

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Do you know how you avoid an unwanted pregnancy? The answer is not condoms or nuvaring.

It's blowjobs, masturbation, nipple sucking and anal. All of which are pretty fun.

[USMCsilver]

Ignorance may be bliss, but murder is still murder.

See my other two threads...

Death penalty, assisted suicide.

Again, I personally don't see it as murder when a fetus is unable to live on its own outside of the womb.

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[Moonlight Hunter]

But why is that the child's fault? If someone who is unfit to be a mother, has sex and gets pregnant, are we not punishing the child, who had know choice in the matter of being created, by bringing it into a shitty existence?

I swear, its almost like some of you are ok with children suffering as long as they aren't killed in the womb. There simply aren't enough good people in the world to take care of all the children born into shitty situations, and I'm talking real situations, not a trailer home and a dad who drinks. I'm talking abuse, kids that never receive an ounce of love, children born to drug addicts who never show them an ounce of compassion. Those children grow into adults and live with that pain forever. Sure, some of them manage to over come it, but I'd be willing to bet that many, many more suffer for the rest of their lives because of it. Now who are we being fair too?

That's easy, we should be fair to the life that had no choice in the matter, and give them a chance at living their lives. The world is a shitty place, and some people get a tough draw. Look at nature all around us to see evidence of that.

Giving dumbasses the choice to harm and cause pain to their inconvenient fetus is not, nor will ever be, the answer. Inalienable rights dictate this.