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Thread: Lesson from Vegas

  1. #1
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    Default Lesson from Vegas

    A vivid reminder that you never know when the feces is going to hit the fan. This was a situation where having a CWP would have done zero good, obviously, but some other every day carry considerations are brought to light.

    How many of you carry a tourniquet (TQ) every day? I recommend it. Heartily. You never know when it might save you, a loved one, or a total stranger. And not necessarily from a shooting event. Car accidents, chain saw mishaps, the list goes on and on. Several of our deputies have used theirs on vehicle crash victims, saving lives. We are issued CAT TQ's, and they are fine, but there HAVE been times when the crank would break. They are also not the most convenient to carry - I keep one on my body armor (plate carrier), and another in an IFAK, but I prefer a SOF Tactical Tourniquet (Wide) (or "SOFTT-W") because it (A) has a strong crank, (B) is strong enough to stop many femoral bleeds (but you have to practice and be quick), and (C) can be folded flat to fit in a back pocket.

    https://www.amazon.com/Israeli-First.../dp/B00E3W3BK2

    Just something to consider. Get one, practice employing it (one handed, too).

    Search YouTube for vids on how to fold it flat.
    "Only accurate rifles are interesting " - Col. Townsend Whelen

  2. #2
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    Mergie Master is offline Dedicated Tamiecide Practitioner
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    I don't go anywhere there are large crowds. But I was thinking "what if" today about this shooting and what actions should be taken to survive it. I know in some situations there is safety in numbers, but this wasn't one of those cases. In a case like this the best way to avoid getting shot is to separate from the crowds, go to the floor and stay there. If I had been there with my wife or a partner that's exactly what we would have done. I would have made her go prone on the floor and stay, then I would do the same about 20' away. The guy shooting wasn't shooting at individual targets the full auto would have confirmed that to me and he was shooting from a distance, the sound would have confirmed that. Those two facts together would have told me he was concentrating his fire on crowds (larger target). And he was shooting for numbers. In that case you need to instantly separate from the crowd because "safety in numbers" goes out the window when the crowds are the target. Then make yourself as flat as possible on the ground. In this case the crowds become a risk instead of a safety mechanism.
    Last edited by Mergie Master; 10-02-2017 at 07:52 PM.
    The Elites don't fear the tall nails, government possesses both the will and the means to crush those folks. What the Elites do fear (or should fear) are the quiet men and women, with low profiles, hard hearts, long memories, and detailed target folders for action as they choose.

    "I here repeat, & would willingly proclaim, my unmitigated hatred to Yankee rule—to all political, social and business connections with Yankees, & to the perfidious, malignant, & vile Yankee race."

  3. #3
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    In this situation....Find COVER and get to it. Fast. I'm not lying in the open Something that will stop a 308 ball round. I'm not playing dead playing the odds. Something stout between me and him until it's safe to move. And that might be a while. If I'm protecting family I'm staying there with them.
    "Only accurate rifles are interesting " - Col. Townsend Whelen

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    I believe we are going to find out some pretty fascinating stuff about this shooter.

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    We had the talk of cover vs concealment today. Try to find cover as those sheer metal fences aren't stopping any bullets.
    HRCH DOC'S LIL LEGACY MH

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    Engine block, concrete barricade or wall, brake drum (you gotta make yourself small). Cars are piss poor cover in a lot of cases. The wife and I were talking about and she said she'd just lay down. No. MOVE. Cover might be 50, 100 yards away, but I'd be getting my ass to it.

    And, if possible, move laterally to the line of fire. Make him lead you if he decides to single you out. Don't give him a linear problem to solve.
    "Only accurate rifles are interesting " - Col. Townsend Whelen

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swamp Rat View Post
    Engine block, concrete barricade or wall, brake drum (you gotta make yourself small). Cars are piss poor cover in a lot of cases. The wife and I were talking about and she said she'd just lay down. No. MOVE. Cover might be 50, 100 yards away, but I'd be getting my ass to it.

    And, if possible, move laterally to the line of fire. Make him lead you if he decides to single you out. Don't give him a linear problem to solve.
    It's interesting how people think. My wife said the same thing. I politely explained that you get your ass to cover in a hurry in a situation like that. And doors, fences, and bushes ain't cover.

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    Problem I see is a crowd of 22,000 people running in every direction makes it damn hard to figure out where the shots are coming from. I would bet a very few thought to look up 400yds away to find a shooter. My initial reaction would be to run away from the sound but be looking ground level for a shooter. Nearly impossible to react appropriately to what happened last night.

    I was 2 blocks from there last week and I never thought of someone shooting from a 32nd floor down on a crowd. I did however think about someone firing into the masses on the strip or even entering a casino and opening fire. Deeply disturbing to say the least.

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    Chaos. You run through, over, under, away. Keep going. Don't stop.

    Or stand there drinking your beer and shooting him the bird.

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    Only lesson ive learned & continue to get re-enforced daily is be right with the Lord & ready to leave this world in the next breath.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walt4dun View Post
    Only lesson ive learned & continue to get re-enforced daily is be right with the Lord & ready to leave this world in the next breath.
    Best advice in this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swamp Rat View Post
    Engine block, concrete barricade or wall, brake drum (you gotta make yourself small). Cars are piss poor cover in a lot of cases. The wife and I were talking about and she said she'd just lay down. No. MOVE. Cover might be 50, 100 yards away, but I'd be getting my ass to it.

    And, if possible, move laterally to the line of fire. Make him lead you if he decides to single you out. Don't give him a linear problem to solve.
    I've heard multiple people say today that they would lay down and play dead. I'm more in line with your way of thinking, I'm moving to cover and making myself as difficult of a target as I can.

    Kind of a piss poor analogy but a sitting duck gets ground swatted and it's a lot harder to hit one that's moving erratically.

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    Thousands of people went prone in those videos because they didn’t expect it to come from above them. Know where the exits are at all times. Get out of the killbox


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    i'm too good at math to waste time on this
    Ugh. Stupid people piss me off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walt4dun View Post
    Only lesson ive learned & continue to get re-enforced daily is be right with the Lord & ready to leave this world in the next breath.
    Yep!


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    Quote Originally Posted by led0321 View Post
    Thousands of people went prone in those videos because they didn’t expect it to come from above them. Know where the exits are at all times. Get out of the killbox


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    This. Lots of stories about people getting hurt as they climbed fences and barriers and frantically searched for a way to get out.

    Same with a hotel, airplane, room, etc. Know where the exits are ahead of time and you will be ahead of most of the crowd.

    I always make it a point to know how to get to the staircase when I'm in a hotel room traveling. Ever walk out of a hotel room in the morning and been confused on which way the elevator is? Imagine coming out of the door in the event of a fire and having to crawl along the floor to get out. Can't follow the crowd. Most idiots would be trying to get on the elevator.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walt4dun View Post
    Only lesson ive learned & continue to get re-enforced daily is be right with the Lord & ready to leave this world in the next breath.

    BINGO, when it is our time it is our time regardless of how whether we like it or not


    To me IF you can figure out where the shots are coming from just run opposite direction

    I would imagine most thought the shooter/shooters were in the crowd, can not imagine the confusion in something like that

  18. #18
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    Get off the X. I still think it would have been real hard in that situation to know where it was coming from. Add a few drinks and 1000's of frantic people.....damn bad place to be

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    Swamp Rat, any first aid you recommend for civilians? Something more advanced than basic first aid?
    Last edited by everlast; 10-03-2017 at 07:32 AM.
    “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
    -Samuel Adams

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by everlast View Post
    Swamp Rat, any courses you recommend for civilians you know of and recommend?
    Find a local CPR/first responder class. The local tech college will offer them and usually the hospitals in the area have several offerings per year as well. Your chances of running across a bad car wreck, tree stand fall, etc are far greater than a shooting.

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