Another Perspective on Season Date Changes

[Tuffy]

Stripa, I sure don't mind, but that will be my huge spreadsheet compiled over the years. PM your email address and I'll send it, but it may need some explanation once you have it in front of you.

[trkykilr]

All of those things are distasteful to me, too, Strick. Still, how would we justify exactly where we were drawing a line between acceptable and non-acceptable. It's not some sense of "purity" or "ethics" or we might just include hen decoys and/or even hunting during the breeding/nesting season at all. Without that evidence that these specific methods are having some step-up effect on the resource, there is simply no justification for it. That would take us back to a political thought and even further away from the science/facts of "managing" the resource. No, I would not support these, although I would shake my head at their widespread use. (May have to get myself one if I don't get back to being a little better hunter soon.)

Simple. SAFETY. Sitting behind/near a representation of a legal male turkey is unsafe. I'm completely convinced that getting rid of gobbler/Jake decoys would greatly reduce the harvest.

As a byproduct, Matt Busbice would have to keep his thunder clucker and Barnett double beard crossbow in another state.

[Moonlight Hunter]

Wouldn't the lower limit have an influence on the late season decline in harvest? Most folks that I know in the upstate were tagged out by the end of March.

Did we overlook this comment, or was it addressed and I missed it? Seems like a common sense conclusion.

[Tuffy]

I'm just not convinced that it would make much difference. There are hunters that would not kill a bird, or as many, but they just might not hunt. Those birds are probably vulnerable to other hunters in different ways. The number of birds killed using them is not the same as the number fewer that would be killed without them. Some old-timers might feel about the same way about hen decoys and they are just about necessary for many "field birds". Still, the increase in their use simply hasn't resulted in a decrease in effort required to kill a turkey anywhere, I wouldn't say.

Dayum, there is nothing in my view of turkey hunting that makes me want to defend them; it's just that there is nothing that lets me conclude that outlawing them would make a difference to the resource. It might remove some hunters and, indirectly, improve the quality-of-the-hunt, but that doesn't/wouldn't affect the total number harvested to any real degree. I simply don't see it.

There are surely other issues that are similar in perspective, including the season opening dates. Let's get back to that one in particular. Strutters, etc., deserves a thread of its own, I suppose.

[jevans]

I'm completely convinced that getting rid of gobbler/Jake decoys would greatly reduce the harvest.

I agree, but you know as well as I do that ain't gonna happen. As time has gone by the skill level of hunters have gone down down down. No one has to work as hard anymore. Want to kill a deer? Go throw corn on the ground and sit it. Want to kill a duck? Plant corn and flood it. Want to kill a turkey? Go buy you a gay little tent to sit in and put a strutter out front. Hunting is too popular right now for the right things to be done to benefit our wildlife. Instead, lets make it easier for the ones who have no skill, don't scout, or do anything during the off seasons, let's make it where they can kill stuff too

[Tuffy]

Wouldn't the lower limit have an influence on the late season decline in harvest? Most folks that I know in the upstate were tagged out by the end of March.

The 900 hunters that would have shot a 4th or 5th isn't making nearly as much difference as the 5,100 birds that aren't alive by the end of March.... or as the 16,000 that are dead by the end of April.

[Tuffy]

I agree, but you know as well as I do that ain't gonna happen. As time has gone by the skill level of hunters have gone down down down. No one has to work as hard anymore. Want to kill a deer? Go throw corn on the ground and sit it. Want to kill a duck? Plant corn and flood it. Want to kill a turkey? Go buy you a gay little tent to sit in and put a strutter out front. Hunting is too popular right now for the right things to be done to benefit our wildlife. Instead, lets make it easier for the ones who have no skill, don't scout, or do anything during the off seasons, let's make it where they can kill stuff too

Now, I'm with you and that is EXACTLY what we have extended into the setting of season dates. Actually, it's what the legislature THOUGHT it was doing. The point of the data is that it didn't work out in terms of hunter success by any measure. It DID add more hunters and more Days Hunted to the resource, though. My position is that we need to let the management of the resource and Quality-of-the-Hunt speak up and undo that populist approach that helps neither the birds nor the hunters.

[Tuffy]

For what it's worth: These are what I come up with as the percentage of Hunters that killed one or more birds from 2007-2016. It's not going up and the ups and downs that are in it are more easily explained by population/reproduction and/or season length. Even weather... but I can't see the strutter trend in it or anything that could be it.

29.7% 20.9% 19.7% 21.9% 22.3% 25.8% 19.4% 19.2% 18.9% 20.5%

[JayhawkLee]

I agree, but you know as well as I do that ain't gonna happen. As time has gone by the skill level of hunters have gone down down down. No one has to work as hard anymore. Want to kill a deer? Go throw corn on the ground and sit it. Want to kill a duck? Plant corn and flood it. Want to kill a turkey? Go buy you a gay little tent to sit in and put a strutter out front. Hunting is too popular right now for the right things to be done to benefit our wildlife. Instead, lets make it easier for the ones who have no skill, don't scout, or do anything during the off seasons, let's make it where they can kill stuff too

Thank you.
I take my kids and we use zero decoys.
We have a place in Hodges SC that we hunt under 50 acres, since corn has been thrown out by our neighbors everywhere, deer population is down, Turkeys are gone and hogs are everywhere.

[jevans]

Now, I'm with you and that is EXACTLY what we have extended into the setting of season dates. Actually, it's what the legislature THOUGHT it was doing. The point of the data is that it didn't work out in terms of hunter success by any measure. It DID add more hunters and more Days Hunted to the resource, though. My position is that we need to let the management of the resource and Quality-of-the-Hunt speak up and undo that populist approach that helps neither the birds nor the hunters.

I agree, but to most people, the quality of the hunt is determined by one thing and one thing only? Did you kill anything? Perfect example, I took a young boy 2 weeks ago. We watched 2 birds gobble their heads off, strut, and carry on for 45 minutes about 70 yards out until he couldn't hold his pee anymore. Birds were with hens and nothing we did made any difference, they could have been killed, just not at that moment. I thought it was a great hunt, but talking to his dad later in the week I could tell the young boy didn't look at it quite like I did. He told his dad, "nah, we didn't do anything." I realize he is young, but, that's the mentality of a lot of people. With the exception of maybe ducks, game is way too plentiful now for some people to realize that hunting isn't just killing

[Stripa Swipa]

Stripa, I sure don't mind, but that will be my huge spreadsheet compiled over the years. PM your email address and I'll send it, but it may need some explanation once you have it in front of you.

Bigger the better. Thanks

[Tuffy]

Okay. Send me an email address. I'm stepping out for a while but will send it when I return.

[thunderchicken]

Run season statewide from 4/1-5/1
3 bird limit
1 bird per day
Tags $10 each for residents and $25 each for oos.

While we are at it, let's get rid of male decoys and TSS and force people how to learn how to hunt turkeys again.
Yes, the last satement was sarcastic. I'm totally against restricting the way and individual hunts. Heck, it would suit me to make turkey hunting bow hunting only but again that's just my opinion.

There's no doubt that as a whole, the turkey population in SC is down. I can't say for sure what needs to be done but I feel like shortening the season is a viable option. I think that charging for tags might cut out some of "because I can" hunters.

[PJ1012]

Tuffy, do you have a breakdown of how many of these birds are jakes?

[Tuffy]

Tuffy, do you have a breakdown of how many of these birds are jakes?

I think so. Last year, it was 11.5%. The average of 2013-2015 was 12.4, but that was because 2015 was up to 16.4%. 2013 & 2014 were 11.0% and 9.8%. The average of 2007-2015 was 13.7%. It tracks the availability of Jakes from the previous year's reproduction, I think.

[Strick9]

Tags should absolutely not be free, especially on public lands where management should be paid for.. Its an out that has been used against me by the very agencies in charge of wildlife management.

[surfcock]

What is the chance we can get a question about decoy usage on the turkey survey? For all its faults it is the only real source of statewide data we have.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[usrgce]

Where are these numbers of dead turkeys coming from?

[Tuffy]

.... but they are cheap pearls. "It's a wicked dollar but I give it gladly."

[PJ1012]

I think so. Last year, it was 11.5%. The average of 2013-2015 was 12.4, but that was because 2015 was up to 16.4%. 2013 & 2014 were 11.0% and 9.8%. The average of 2007-2015 was 13.7%. It tracks the availability of Jakes from the previous year's reproduction, I think.

Do you feel that if we adopted Mississippi's law on jakes it would help any?