obedience training question

[2thDoc]

5 month old boykin. working with him to live amongst my family and follow the rules of the house. trying not to throw too many commands at him.

but the one thing that is pissing me off is this: i use the command "down" to tell him to get the ^*!% off the couch. he also jumps up on the bench that the kids eat at and "clean up" after them. I can see him jump up there and say "down" and he doesn't flinch. I have to grab him and pull him off. I say "down" again as I do it and tell him "good boy" when he hits the floor. trying to get my wife to do it exactly the same way to see if we can get him to follow orders.

but he just doesnt seem to get it. Been going on 2-3 months of this and no change in his behavior. i have to drag him off the couch or bench all the time. he usually doesn't jump back up, but I want to have him jump DOWN on his own when i tell him to.

any ideas? what part of my regimen is wrong? should i only say "down" once and drag him off? should i NOT praise him when he hits the floor? what step should I add/delete?

he still enjoys fetching a bumper and is competent at "sit". we have not progressed much past that. at 5 months of age, where should i be in training for retrieving?

fire away....

[NUTZ]

I wouldnt praise him unless he gets down on his own when you give him the "down" command.

And be sure to let him know that you are serious about not wanting him to jump on stuff, tough love.

[Candor]

2th…I have never trained a boykin but spaniels (britts, springers, boykins…) in general are much more stubborn.

Before I get on to your issue…let me throw something else out. Consider using the command “off” rather than “down”. I use “off” to mean put all four feet on the floor. “off” means don’t jump on someone, “off” means get off the bed (in a hotel)…. You may eventually want to teach him to lay down on command. Obviously for how poorly he is responding to you at this point it won’t hurt to switch words. But this is not your issue just something to think about.

Before I give you my response, if you could first answer – is he allowed on the couch and the bench at all and you want him to get down or off on command

OR

Is he not allowed up there at all and you want him to stay off of these areas?

My response to teaching this would be different depending on your answer.

[2thDoc]

he is not allowed on the couch or bench. he IS allowed on the bed.

i can understand that it will be tough.

[HuntinCosta]

save yourself problems next time and get a lab, just kidding, i'll type something later when i get off work.

[Fish]

You can make a horse ice skate with the appropriate amount of voltage and you can for damn sure make that dog stay off a bench with it...Boykin or not! [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img] Spare the collar, fuck up the dog.

The other day, I used the tone feature on my dog's collar to let him know I was displeased with him and that I was indeed watching. In an attempt to redeem himself, he walked over and sat in front of the chalk board, picked up the chalk and started writing out the multiplication tables. We're very pro-education around our house.

[HuntinCosta]

ok heres my shot at this. i think evan grahams obedience cd would benefit you. you should start teaching him to load, and unload. or whatever you want to use as a release command. the word doesnt matter , just what you are teaching. you can even use a training collar to teach those things. and that is part of retriever training. if your dog kennels and unloads on command, into and out of a kennel you can transition that to the couch or the bed. instead of teaching him "down" to get off something i would give him a stern "no" if a dog heres "no" he knows he's doing something wrong. all the other commands should be used for positive things. i think no should always be the command for doing something wrong. if a dog heres no he should react like you just back handed him. its a great command.

as far as where your retriever training should be at 5 months, bringing the bumper to you at this point is great. knowing what sit, heel, and here mean are good to. the basic commands and basic fetching are great at 5 months, short lessons and repitition are what you need at that age. now as much as you dont want to hear this but at 6 months force fetch would be a good thing to do no matter how stupid you think it is. if you read into it a little bit i dont think you will have as bad a taste in your mouth about it as you do. you and your dog will have a better understanding of each other. and he will listen to what you are telling much better.

[2thDoc]

the little shit doesn't understand NO or DOWN and you want me to force fetch him?

i dont want to lose a finger....especially the one I use to flip you off. [img]graemlins/fu.gif[/img]

that being said, where can i read up on force fetch or who would you reccomend to do it for me close to columbia?

[LabLuvR]

I agree wif Candor on using the word off, instead of down. Be consistent, both you and the wifey in terminology and with what you allow the dog to do and not to do. That goes for the younguns as well. And yes, only tell him once, them make him move off. It seems as though your reinforcement is not strong enough. Some dogs need a lot, some are very docile and need very little reinforcement. Yours may be the former.

Forget FF until you get basic obeds down. That is putting the horse way before the cart. If the dog has retrieving instincts FF is not a nesscessity anyhoo.

Oh, next time be damn sure to get a lab!

[Duckman#1]

Ask your wife about the tactics she used on you. Should transfer over.

[DRDUCK]

Little late Doc. Should have nipped that a little earlier. My wife tried like you no what to keep our Golden of 11 yrs. off the couch and dam if he don't own it! Did break him of the bed, sure, He just got to big and figured it out when we just kept pushing him off. About 90/lbs. Boykin's ain't that big so JUST go ahead and give the DOG the House. Sounds to me that he already owns it an got you and the family already trained @ 5 months? GOOD DOG!

[HuntinCosta]

ok we dont need to get in a ff argument with labluvr, he didnt ff his dog and his dog is great yadayada. i dont care. of course you teach the basics first. thats why i said get evan grahams "obedience cd" trust me on that one. if you get it you will have alot easier time and understanding of the basics. go to www.rushcreekpress.com atleast start there. and im telling you from personal experience that ff will help your dog understand that he needs to listen to what you say, not just hear what you say. not everyones dog is as easily trainable as labluvrs. he apparently got the cream of the crop. your dog can do just fine without ff, but your life with your dog will be easier and so will training!


pam kadlec and kim parkman are good with boykins. pam is in edgefield and kim is in sumter. kim is scdog1.

[LabLuvR]

Costa,

I have hunted with many, many labs during the years and none were forced fetched. No, they were not my dogs. Now these dogs weren't trial dogs, just good ol meat getters. And for the most part, great performers in the field. If the dog has the "desire and the heart" FF is not mandatory in my humble opinion.

One of the great retrieves I have witnessed came from Nutz dog(non-forced) in AR. That pup made what was at least an incredible 400 yard retrieve in a flooded soybean field!! And that was on top of all the other retrieves she made that morning. Just one example of many I could give that backs up what I say.
I'm not knocking FF, my view is that FF is not a necessity for all dogs as some seem to believe.

[Fish]

Pulling from what I have been told over the years, force fetching a dog really shouldn't begin until about 8 months, so 2fer, for now, forget about that. And until he is 8 mos. work him on obedience for 10 or 15 minutes a day...maybe even twice. This is some really easy stuff. Your only task right now is to understand the commands you want to use and be consistant with them. NO, HERE, HEEL, SIT, etc. Keep it simple. There is plenty of time for this little guy to turn out well...in spite of the fact that he is a Boykin. [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Another really great command is OUTSIDE. If you use it consistently when you know the pup has to shit, eventually by saying OUTSIDE when you want him to go, you can actually get the little bastard to shit on command. And thats really nice when its raining or your standing out in the yard in your underwear scratching your ass. [img]graemlins/devil-flip.gif[/img]

[NUTZ]

Thanks, Lab.

I watched that video the other night. That was a good trip.

[HuntinCosta]

a dog can retrieve without ff, im trying to help a man train his dog easier. no one said a dog doesnt have desire without ff. ff is a training tool not a way to instill desire. god gives them the drive to hunt. man gave us tools to help training go easier and smoother. yes obedience is important first, get the dvd like i said, and ff him later, but atleast before a year old.

[Trail'nTree]

Get a REDBONE and be done with it!

[HuntinCosta]

best retriever ever made, hell they'll point, flush, retrieve, track, tree, bay, wash your dish's, and service your girlfriend.

[Aricks]

My 4 month old female knows sit, outside, kennel and will make 3-4 retreves before she starts to loose interest. I thought I was behind but I think I'm doing pretty good reading what yal have posted. At what age do yal start shooting around them?????

[HuntinCosta]

i would start shooting soft poppers now but not right on top of them. do it from a distance just so they can get used to it. nothing loud and scary yet. that is very far along for such a young pup. keep it up