obedience training question

[scdog1]

with regards to FF.....
I consider FF to be an extension of obedience for retrievers - the primary foundation for a TRAINED retriever's life work.

when to start? pup should be at least 6 months old and have its permanent teeth. He should be healthy and should have his obedience training down pat. Prior to begining, the pup should have been thrown plenty of marks, be an ambitious retriever - one that happily brings back both dummies and birds.

why should a dog be force fetched? the simple answer is to give the pup the skills to become a reliable retriever.
An added benefit to FF is that if properly taught, there is no doubt as to who is in charge - the trainer gains allegiance and added respect for all his/her voice commands.
Additional reasons to FF:
*it's the basis for teaching a dog to handle and complete blind retrieves
*it helps with confidence on memory birds of multiple marks
*most importantly, if you have to punish your dog any field sin, FETCH is the command to get back to work.
Plausible scenario - You are in the dove field with your dog. The dog is not FF You knock down a bird - your dog breaks to shot. You correct the dog for breaking and now, no matter what you do, he won't leave your side. In the dogs mind, he has been corrected for attempting to make a retrieve so the best thing for him to do is to stick close with the boss...your options are to either "let it go" and hope for the best next time or walk the dog out to the bird and encourage him to pick it up....should he refuse to pick up the bird, you have no recourse to make him do so. If the dog were FF, he would understand the program!
Kim

[DRDUCK]

scdog1, all dogs as you know, are very different and I admire the PERFECT seneiro, that's the way the Mexicans spell it. HuntinCosta are you a pro dog trainer? To here you tell it you are.

[scdog1]

yep, all dogs, like people, are a bit different, but still they are dogs. Just as children should be sent to school in order to be prepared for life, dogs should be trained. FF is not an absolute requirement for all dogs to retrieve, but neither is obedience training. The dove hunting scenario that I mentioned is one of many scenarios that make a case for FF.
After 20+ years of training dogs, one learns the folly of "bucking the odds". I can honestly admit that I've never heard anyone say that they were sorry that their dog had been ff..
Kim

[HuntinCosta]

no, im no where close to a pro trainer, im still at the beginning stages, and im learning something new every day.

[Professor]

2th,
First of all, I'd use the command "off". (What are you going to use when you actually want him to lay down?)
Having said that. Do you own a heeling stick? I would say "off!" followed by a rap (ouch!!)with the heeling stick. It won't take him long to learn. Boykins are smart and they RESPECT the heeling stick.
Just on idea.
Professor

[Roux]

HC is no pro...but hey, he did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

[Roux]

Now, I have a Boykin and what worked for me is a firm no (which he should show some sign of understanding) followed by here (calling him down to me) then reward with a good. These are the basic commands that you will use forever. If he refuses the here, as young as he is I would just reach up and pull him off of the sofa. I would only give a good if he does as told. The big thing is be consistent and do not let him get away with not complying. And for the record, I had a pro FF my dog and it was money well spent.

[DRDUCK]

Roux, that is the RIGHT way to do it. Maybe the good DR. should pull him off and say NO.

[wcrites307]

2th

If you think your boykin is tough now wait 5 more months. Now is the time to start cracking down. I agree with previous posts , use the command OFF! If you get no response follow with an appropriate amount of corporal punishment. Think firm and stern lots of yelling and scruff shaking usually does the trick. For the times when he does get OFF! a large amount of praise. The best advice I ever got was to go to an obedience class with my dog. I was somewhat embarrassed but the pay back has been worth it and lasted for years and many dogs. As with most dog training the hardest part is the most important part and that is to be consistent. AS for what you need to be working on the most valuable for anyone hunters and non is sit. You should be working towards getting the dog to sit. then sit while you walk away, while the door opens, when kids run past, etc etc etc. sitting is the basis for almost all good behaviour and good hnting skills. sit to flush, sit to shot,. Hell, field trial line steady is nothing more than sitting thru distractions. Good luck

Bill C

[2thDoc]

thanks, Bill. You know my pup....your wife tried to steal him from me at the Classic.

i agree with what everyone is saying...but my household is waaaaay short of perfect. Two five year olds and a nine month old...plus the pup. He is attracted to the food. I am following what Candor told me and y'all reiterated about saying "off" and "going kinda crazy" so he reacts. He is coming along....

about force fetch...i am still unsure about just how serious i can get with the training...so, short of paying Kim to do it....which i can't seem to make myself do (mainly because of the thought that i should be able to handle training myself)....how late can force-fetch be feasibly implemented?

[HuntinCosta]

i know someone getting a dog force fetched now at 3 years old. but i would get it done before a year old.

[DRDUCK]

Goooooooood Luck DOC! The dog is the first dog your 2 year olds will have to associate with. THINK ABOUT IT> This will want them to have dogs and other animals later in life AS YOU HAVE. Might be wrong but but stuck in my old ass mind all these years.

[scdog1]

2th,

to answer your question "how late can ff be implemented?" you can begin anytime after the pups permanent teeth come in. however, if you wait much past 6 months of age, you are only making it harder on both the dog and the trainer (pro or owner). There is no good reason to put it off.
The process is not rocket science - anyone can learn to do it. It does require persistence/determination/follow through on the part of the trainer as it is a master or be mastered proposition. Some breeds (labs & usualy goldens) FF fairly easy - Boykins are quite a differnt story. They can be everybit as stubbon/willfull as a Chessie and, to add insult to injury, are somewhat prone to bite!
You mentioned that you have two 5 year olds and a nine month old to go along with your pup.....I have a serious quesiton for you that requires you to be painfully honest with yourself....Do your 5 year olds pay attention to you the first time that you tell them to do something?? If they do, then you will do a very good job of force fetching your Boykin - if not, well..........

[Mergie Master]

2th,
About the obedience, the best quote I have ever heard from a trainer was;

(paraphrased)
"When training a dog make sure to keep in mind that it isn't a democracy it's a dictatorship, the dog doesn't get a vote."

[scdog1]

Mergie,

you are right it IS a dictatorship.....
The dog dosen't have to WANT to do it my way, he just has to.....